UCLA parents: Student services cut

<p>Hello, parents of prospective students,
I know this is an exciting and difficult time; I also know a lot of your kids are considering the UCs because of price and opportunity.</p>

<p>On March 10, the Division of Undergraduate Education announced that all free student learning services in math, science, and writing under Academics in the Commons are being eliminated starting June 2011. We currently serve over 8,000 students annually in introductory classes.
Starting this coming year, there is no peer tutoring service open to all students at UCLA.
UCLA will be the only UC without this type of program. </p>

<p>The administration’s response has been lukewarm and apathetic- they have made many promises to make “new centers” using “existing departmental funding”- but there is nobody but you who can hold them accountable to these claims. At a big state school, existing departmental funding for student learning simply doesn’t exist, and the timeline for any proposed project is fuzzy at best. They also are trying to push the funding for such centers off the College and onto the individual departments, as well as eliminate all peer or collaborative learning models for the near future and replace it with “office hours” style drop-in services. This is a long fall compared to the weekly free course- and instructor-specific tutoring sessions students currently receive from fellow students who are passionate about the subjects. </p>

<p>If your child is considering attending UCLA, I would like to emphasize that UCLA is and remains a wonderful school. But I believe you and your child deserve to make the choice to attend UCLA fully informed. </p>

<p>I’m a current UCLA senior, class of 2011. I work as a peer tutor and love my job, but am graduating and leaving (have no financial stake in Covel’s closure). I have had an amazing experience at UCLA and have been given great educational opportunities here, and I think you as prospective students deserve to have the same. If you have any questions for me feel free to post them here and I will answer them to the best of my ability. </p>

<p>Thank you for your time!</p>

<p>I don’t go to UCLA, but I feel sorry for the UCLA students.</p>

<p>It’s the incoming and current freshmen students who will be hurt the most. These services are primarily for introductory math, physics, chemistry, biology, etc. as well as one-on-one composition/writing/ESL help. But Covel does enroll juniors and seniors as well; I even have several students who are graduating seniors this quarter in my sessions.
A lot of prospective students visited campus early, and the College made the announcement that this whole division would be cut pretty much as late as possible. So in essence prospective students who visited before March were told they will have these services available to them next year, which simply isn’t true.</p>

<p>i highly recommend that u post this in the ucla and uc (general) forums as well. kids need to know about the elimination of these critical services.</p>

<p>Are these services “critical?”</p>

<p>I didn’t attend UCLA, but to my knowledge there weren’t any free peer tutors when I was in college and I did just fine. If we had questions, we visited the prof or TA during office hours or formed study groups.</p>

<p>As a California resident and taxpayer, do you have a way to pay for this?</p>

<p>^^ Plus students can work together in groups to learn. Kids who need a lot of tutoring should re-think they should attend UCLA or not. The university should also re-think on admission criteria.</p>

<p>Just another reason I strongly suggest that most OOS students do not attend a UC.</p>

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<p>Not gonna happen. The requirements were just lowered for a reason…</p>

<p>Interesting idea to shift to office hour style help; I recently read an article (don’t have a link, sorry) that discusses the move to Adjunct faculty in universities. These part - time non-tenure track teachers often don’t have offices in which to hold office hours. What is the ratio of adjunct to full professors at UCLA for freshman classes?</p>

<p>That’s a really important question. The short answer is no. No, peer learning is not critical- if critical means that UCLA can’t function without it.
But by the same logic nor are office hours or discussion sections.
Here’s a quick response: </p>

<p>What about TA and instructor office hours? </p>

<p>Yes, there are TA and instructor office hours. But office hours at UCLA in the introductory sciences are overutilized, especially pre-exams. It is not uncommon to walk down to Young Hall in 4th week and see 25 students spilling out of a faculty office intended to seat five, with students sitting in the hallway unable to ask questions.
Also, office hours and any drop in services are a different model. Office hours answer immediate questions, like how do I solve this problem for the homework due on Tuesday. Professors don’t prepare any material for office hours. Peer learning sessions have required weekly attendance (if you sign up) with prepared material, and as a result teach good study habits, like how to keep up with the material from week to week.</p>

<p>Does peer learning work? Why?</p>

<p>Peer learning works. AAP, a sister program to Covel at UCLA for underrepresented minority students only, found that their students had a full grade point improvement in the specific classes from participating in peer learning sessions (eg, going from a C to a B). It’s not a perfect comparison because AAP helps a different student population, but their model is the same- students helping students.
(AAP can check the grades and make statistics because they provide a whole host of other services including counseling, kind of like Honors; Covel cannot). There’s a lot of published studies on peer learning’s efficacy too, mostly from the 70’s and 80’s, but I find UCLA-specific statistics to be even more compelling.
But more than that, peer tutors offer a different point of view from TAs or professors. They remember what it’s like to not understand the material, they can explain it from that point of view, and they themselves learn from tutoring the material. And frankly, student tutors care about student learning- a lot of TAs do, but many of them don’t.</p>

<p>But it’s a budget crisis- why should UCLA pay for peer learning?</p>

<p>Our entire program in four science and math subjects and drop-in writing costs 185,000$ annually. That sounds like a lot, but compare it to a few figures. The UCLA administrator who made this decision makes 245,883$ annually. UCLA spent 22,000$ on a single recruitment event- Scholar’s Day- in 2008. And we just got 300 million in donations, most of which is not earmarked for any particular purpose beyond “student learning”. </p>

<p>Covel has little administrative overhead because it shares costs, tutors, and facilities with student-athlete tutoring (which comes from a separate funding source, Athletics). </p>

<p>Also, Dean Judi Smith even agreed herself in a meeting with us (the concerned students) that establishing two new centers will cost more overall due to administrative overhead than Covel currently costs. The key difference is that it will cost the individual departments money, not the College of Letters and Sciences.</p>

<p>Also, consider the cost of not having Covel. At UCLA, a lot of classes are offered in series and are only offered once. Eg. you might take Chem 30A in fall, Chem 30B in winter, and Chem 30C in spring. Let’s say Covel helps you pass Chem 30A. If you didn’t take Covel, and you failed Chem 30A in fall, you can’t continue in the series. But you might not be able to retake Chem 30A the next quarter either- fewer classes are offered, and sometimes no classes are offered off that original schedule. The problem persists into the next year- when you go to enroll in Chem 30C in fall of the next year, you can’t- it’s not offered. But you might need those classes to enroll in other classes as prereqs, etc.
The net result is failing one intro class could result in a student needing an extra year or more of school- that costs UCLA much, much more money as a cumulative effect than Covel costs. Plus, what about the student?
A lot of students enter UCLA unprepared in the fall quarter, and quickly adapt to the learning system here. But that one quarter is so disproportionately important- failing that one quarter could put you behind by a whole year.
There’s also an argument to be made for the quality or standard of learning, but that doesn’t really convince administrators as much as the bottom line.</p>

<p>Agree, study groups are big at UCLA, especially in the sciences. And kids who need tutoring will be more apt to flunk out even more, especially those from bad high schools, which means URMs. Students will just have to organize more on their own.</p>

<p>But my question is: </p>

<p>Why is Vu overenrolling the university: 4400+ in-state kids, 800 non-residents, when the U is busting at the seams at 4500 frosh, esp, considerating rennovations? I know it said kids are graduating ahead of forecasts, but is that a reason to continue or to increase the over-enrolling?</p>

<p>He’s trying to keep in-state students happy with strong enrollments, but trying to enroll more non-residents because of revenue they provide. Horrible strategy all the way around as far as I’m concerned. </p>

<p>And the Dream Fund should not be earmarked for something like this. DF should be for general public good, not keeping students at UCLA. The UCLA portion of the DF should be towards improving teaching/departments for all students, not for a specific need-based group.</p>

<p>Reading over this, I’m concerned that my tone comes across as negative. I do want to encourage students to attend UCLA.
In my four years here I’ve had an amazing, amazing experience, both academically and otherwise. I’ve participated in research and published papers, I’ve joined a number of student orgs, I feel well-prepared for med/grad school/postbac, and I’ve also just had a really positive and fun time. I think my experience is not uncommon.
Relative to what I pay for tuition, I think UCLA is an insane bargain, especially if you apply for the various merit scholarships available or for financial aid if you qualify. I chose UCLA over Berkeley and several other private universities, and I think I made the best possible choice.
I just want to encourage you- especially if your child has already submitted an SIR- to speak up to UCLA administration about student services. There is a very real option of getting these services back, if enough people demand them. You can do that by emailing <a href=“mailto:chancellor@ucla.edu”>chancellor@ucla.edu</a> or <a href=“mailto:judis@college.ucla.edu”>judis@college.ucla.edu</a> , by signing our petition (link: <a href=“Petition · Provide Peer Learning Services to All UCLA Undergraduates · Change.org”>Petition · Provide Peer Learning Services to All UCLA Undergraduates · Change.org; ), or by letting other parents know to do the same.</p>

<p>Well, Covel is not for a problem group. It’s open to all students across majors and has an open composition/writing one-on-one service as well as the science programs. A peer mentoring program through AITC was also cut as well that served all students. Good students as well as bad students benefit from these services. I myself enrolled in Covel every quarter my first two years at UCLA, and I was not at risk of failing any of those classes. It also promotes deeper understanding of the material; it’s not a remedial service at all.</p>

<p>If you can’t get UCLA to pay for it, then students will have to pay by having their tuition or student fees increased. If you want it that badly, pay for it. Don’t ask the state for more money, we’re broke.</p>

<p>Well, the process will actually cost the University overall more money, in establishing two centers instead of only one. The reason the College is doing it is because less money will come out of the College of Letters and Sciences and more from the Departments. Another result is that more of the money will be spent on hiring administrative assistants and less on individual student tutors. These are student jobs the College is eliminating, after all, so less money goes back to the student population and more goes into administrative overhead.
There are other reasons the two-center solution the College is proposing is bad, mostly because it won’t start for at least a year if not two years from now and because it has the office hours model instead of a peer learning model. Neither of which benefits the class of 2014 or 2015.</p>

<p>I don’t think my kid who attended UCLA ever went to Covel to receive any tutoring.</p>

<ul>
<li>What percentage of the students actually use the service? </li>
<li>Of those, how often do they use it (once, multiple times per week, etc.)?</li>
<li>What alternatives do these students have (consulting other students informally, taking a course more matched to their abilities, consulting with the TA/prof)?</li>
</ul>

<p>No one likes cuts but sometimes they need to be made. Maybe this service is a reasonable target for cost cutting, given that there needs to be cost cutting somewhere, or maybe it isn’t - I don’t know. But if the service is only servicing a minority of the students at UCLA then maybe it’s reasonable to cut it. If this isn’t to be cut, what where would you receommend the cuts take place instead? Since this is a service many of the students don’t use maybe it’s reasonable to charge those students whi do use it for the use of it then it won’t need to be cut at all.</p>

<p>Maybe I’m a dinosaur, but I managed to get through UCLA classes just fine without a peer tutoring center, and I didn’t come close to failing anything. If anything, the admission standards at UCLA have gotten enormously tougher over the years, and so I would expect that today’s students would be even less dependent on tutoring than they were in my day. We certainly had study groups – and athletes and some minority students had special tutoring services provided by UCLA – but I’m having some trouble understanding why so many students would need a tutoring center? Do these students really belong at the state’s flagship? (And UCLA classes were certainly not small back in the 70s.) Back then, if students needed tutoring, they paid someone for it. I’m not sure why that still should not be the case.</p>

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<p>I agree. I also smell an entrepreneurial opportunity. OP, why don’t you open your own private tutoring service with displaced tutors from Covel? You can do group sessions at a bargain rate of something like $10 per hour.</p>

<p>UCLA is much more academically competitive now than back in the 70’s. Tutoring was not widely utilized back then, but more students use it now just to stay even with the rest. Like someone else said, if you need tutoring, pay for it. The State is broke. Just wait for tuition increases if you think having to pay for tutoring is a problem.</p>

<p>It’s peer tutoring, which is all well and good, but not essential. My college (community college) is cutting it out, too. My students who used it mostly complained about it anyway. If a student really needs help in a class, he or she can start a study group. That’s what my D does at UCLA. I have never heard her talk about using a peer tutor.</p>