<p>I posted similar question in two different forums with very little feedback, so I’m trying my luck in the parent forum.</p>
<p>We picked UMass Amherst as S1s one true safety school. This safety has turned into a perfect safety school in every aspect. S1 learned on Sunday that he received a full-ride NMF scholarship to the Commonwealth College (UMass Amhersts honors college). Given his 3.5+ GPA, we are very happy that S1 has at least a full-ride somewhere. I told him that even if something terrible happens to mom and dad (at least between now and April 30th ;)), he still has a fully covered college to attend.</p>
<p>S1 wants to study biology, specifically genetics. As expected, he has narrowed down his choices to Caltech and UChicago. Each will cost us $$$, with UChicago topping Caltech by about $7K per year. The financial burden of either of these two schools is significant for us; however, we are leaning toward declining the UMass full-ride offer. Two reasons: academic strength and caliber of peers. I believe despite the honors college setting, the Commonwealth College still lags far behind Caltech and UChicago in academic quality and in undergraduate research opportunity. Although there are brilliant kids in the Commonwealth College, the other two schools just have much higher concentration of such kids.</p>
<p>Before we write it off, is there anyone on CC who thinks we should take the UMass offer? What would you do in this situation?</p>
<p>PCP, I know nothing about your finances, or FA offers from CT or UC. And from earlier posts I gather you have several children to put through school. So I can’t take that into account.</p>
<p>I also have no experience at all with UMass, which I assume is a wonderful school. </p>
<p>But I do know, anecdotally of course, that attending Caltech is a uniquely incredible experience for most people. First, the Freshman class is something like 250 kids or so. You will certainly get attention there.</p>
<p>My father attended grad school at Caltech. My dad was the smartest person I ever met. He met Richard Feynman, my mom was Linus Pauling’s secretary. That doesn’t happen to you just anywhere. Pick up a copy of the Feynman lectures in Physics. Aside from the research opportunities, you don’t often encounter enthusiastic teaching like that at any institution.</p>
<p>One of my best friends from grammar school went to Caltech - got a degree in Physics. He worked shortly after school, but then became a Christian and went of to missionary work in East Asia for many years. When he returned, despite the long absence, he was able to get some sort of position in the Physics department at Caltech.</p>
<p>I attended several lectures and symposia there - it is just wonderful, vibrant place. And Pasadena is nice too.</p>
<p>I’m sure some UC and UMass supporters can fill you in on the rest. As well as somebody who actually attended CIT.</p>
<p>Congrats to your son on all of his achievements, PCP. He will do beautifully no matter where he is.</p>
<p>What are the implications for the rest of your family if you went with Caltech or Chicago? Do you have other children up and coming whereby you’d be in a position that you could pay for this kind of u for S, but not for the others? Is the money for Caltech or Chicago there, is it there-but-will-require-some-sacrifice, is it there-but-cutting-into-bone?</p>
<p>I wish I could give you the right answer. Or better yet, some money :-)</p>
<p>PaperChasePop, UMass Amherst is a part of Five Colleges Cooperation with Amherst, Hampshire, Mount Holyoke and Smith Colleges. You might want to do some research of that program before you write off this wonderful full ride opportunity. The education opportunity from these five schools can stand with any other universities in this country.</p>
<p>I let my kids turn down similar offers from colleges I liked a lot more than UMass to attend Chicago. That may have been stupid – in one case, it certainly was. But as far as I can tell the atmosphere at Chicago supporting engagement with and attention to learning is unmatched anywhere. My kids might have learned almost as much for a lot less, but they couldn’t have learned more at any price.</p>
<p>bovertine, thanks for the post. S1 went to Caltech prefrosh weekend and came back convinced its academics is the best in the country.</p>
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<p>Sigh. There was a point in time when I had enough money that had I kept it before it evaporated with the last Internet bubble, would make this thread irrelevant to me. Yes, I have more kids to worry about. Going to either Caltech or UChicago will be closer to cutting-into-bone-and-some-more type of sacrifice. It will impact the other kids at least as far as continuing or picking up new EC’s or college classes. We’re prepared to continue the same sacrifice for the other kids if they also have the opportunity to attend world class institutions, assuming the total cost to us remains steady or slightly higher.</p>
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<p>S1 is still interested in teaching SAT prep class this summer. So, send your kids and the check over!</p>
<p>Christian2, I’m aware of the consortium of five colleges. I have a relative attending Amherst, and he did see a few UMass kids taking classes at his college. Given the distance, is it really practical to take classes or to do research in other colleges on a regular basis?</p>
<p>Caltech and Chicago are heads and shoulders above UMASS (even the honors college). I don’t think it is incredibly difficult to get into the Honors College, admission to which I believe is some formula based on GPA and SAT scores. (Although to get a full scholarship is more rare!)</p>
<p>I think an education at Caltech or Chicago is a gift being offered to your son. If at all possible you should take it.</p>
<p>I am not an overly practical person though and I don’t know your personal financial situation.</p>
<p>If your son is heading toward bio/genetics is grad school in his future? Most if not all of the sciences PhD programs are fully funded so paying for grad school would not be an issue. PhD programs look at gpa, GRE scores, research and letters of recommendation. You and your son should look very carefully at the research and summer opportunities that will be available to him and the ability to get to know professors who will be willing and able to write strong letters or recommendation on his behalf when that time comes.</p>
<p>My D now a first year PhD student went to a top 50 (barely) school not known for sciences, but made herself known to the small chemistry dept. She was well mentored beginning as a freshman, was able to procure a summer REU, an honorable mention Goldwater Scholar, some internal scholarships for summer research as well as great lab experience. Because she knew her professors well, strong letters of recommendation were also offered. Here grad school acceptances reflected all of this. She was fortunate for the mentoring because we were clueless about the PhD process when she began and it provided her the knowledge of the process well in advance of the time she needed to apply and she was able to prepare accordingly</p>
<p>Actually I think the acceptance rate into the honors program at UMass is single digits.</p>
<p>Amherst College is very close to being within walking distance of UMass, so it should be pretty easy to cross-register for classes there. Mount Holyoke and Smith are I believe 20-minutes-ish bus rides away.</p>
<p>How assertive is your son when it comes to his education?</p>
<p>If he will switch out of classes if he doesn’t find them fitting, research and take courses at other schools, and take the initiative to find research projects with professors, UMass could work out very well for him.</p>
<p>If I were he, I might try and find a professor who is working on an area that interests him. Give the professor a call / shoot an e-mail and see what the professor says about opportunities for students of your son’s caliber.</p>
<p>^That may be true about the acceptance rate for the Honors College at UMass, but certainly we are not talking about the same type of applicant pool as Caltech.</p>
<p>In our town, most of the really bright kids are going to UMass. SAT’s in 700+ range, top of class, etc.</p>
<p>One classmate of my son’s went to UMass because of a similar free ride, and he has done great. Absolutely loved it. He did internships in Ghana, and has a great job now after graduation.</p>
<p>UMass Amherst has become very selective, and Commonwealth College even more so. </p>
<p>My kids got really excellent FA at Ivies, but I really wanted one of them to go to UMass, because I thought it would have been a better fit for him and his interests. I still think that, 6 years later. </p>
<p>I would really consider it. And, as one of the kids who goes there with that scholarship, he will get a lot of attention, believe me.</p>
<p>Five Colleges Interchange has been established for quite some time. There are Five College Buses to transport students free of charge and on a frequent basis among all five colleges. I have no direct knowledge of how good that program is, but I believe it is worth looking into. As far as undergraduate education is concern, I am a firm believer of the person rather than the school that will make the difference. In your son’s case, all his choices are excellent and he will not go wrong with any of them.</p>
<p>I spent a sabbatical at Caltech about 15 years ago. It is a wonderful, unique place for the right student. The downsides, I think are the lopsided m/f ratio and lack of diversity in the student body (I don’t mean ethnic, rather lack of humanities and music majors, etc.). Also the small size of the class has both positives and negatives. But you know you are in a special place when you run into Stephen Hawking on the way to lunch, as I did several tiimes when I was there. </p>
<p>For many students, especially girls, Caltech might be a better choice for grad school than undergrad, though. </p>
<p>I don’t have first hand experience with U Chicago, but my S (not a math/sci type) is considering it. I’m convinced it is a special place as well. </p>
<p>I guess, that IMO, most kids would be better off at U Chicago for undergrad and Caltech
for grad. (Caltech RAs were very well-paid when I was there). UMass undergrad followed by a top grad school is also a reasonable path. Just make sure your S does some research as an undergrad.</p>
<p>I got to see Feynman act in the play The Lady’s Not for Burning when my husband was a grad student at Caltech. And some pretty famous prof’s came to the Halloween party we threw. If you can afford it I’d pick either Chicago or Caltech over UMass. Which one is entirely up to your son. They are so different, I can’t imagine he wouldn’t prefer one to another. (My husband would probably lean to Chicago for undergrad and Caltech for grad school, on the theory that it’s nice to be around more non-scientists for the undergrad years.)</p>
<p>I agree, BTW, if he’s heading for a PhD. he won’t be paying for grad school.</p>
<p>The 2008-2009 Freshman class was 41% female, 59% male - not bad for a tech school.</p>
<p>PaperChaserPop: My S had some very good choices like your son: Chicago, Caltech, plus another top 10 school etc plus our local state university which gave him the best merit aid they offered. We went though all the analysis, visits etc and he has decided Caltech. He liked Caltech and is under no illusion that it is going to be easy. If he had not chosen Caltech, it would have been decision between Chicago and Harvey Mudd. I know it is not a easy choice and I do not know about U Mass, but he cannot go wrong with Chicago or Caltech. I believe my son made the right decision for himself, so your son needs to go with his gut.</p>
<p>Also, where do you live. If the choices are toss up, proximity to home could be a tie breaker.</p>
<p>motherbear332: The M/F ratio is changing. This year I was told that the 45% of the admitted students were women. The actual enrolled percentage may be slightly different, but more women are beginning to consider Caltech for undergraduate, when compared to previous years.</p>
<p>I’m a value guy. Kids use the same books at virtually all schools and while more accomplished students in a class is a big positive I’m sure there are high schools with more accomplished students than at your high school, yet your son did just fine. College will likely be the same way. Again, just my slant on things but I’m guessing I can count about 160,000 reasons to go to UMASS.</p>
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<li><p>Since you mention the potential difficulty of doing real research, find out the names of the undergraduate program directors of majors that interest your son and contact them with specific questions regarding undergraduate research opportunities. Ask when they can begin, and with whom. Find out which faculty have good grant support and ask them if they allow undergrads to work in the labs before late junior or senior year.</p></li>
<li><p>Take a look at the educational pedigree of faculty in the relevant departments. Believe me, there are many highly-qualified faculty members at UMASS who are there largely because they don’t want to leave the northeast. In fact, I think the place is a bit in-bred in that regard. Too many of the faculty maintain other homes in places like Cambridge and New Haven.</p></li>
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<p>There are many very smart undergrads at UMASS. H and I used to be there. One of my H’s undergrads went on to Princeton for his PhD and is a tenured full prof at an Ivy now. Of course, one example does not mean a great student body. Not all students are top-notch, but I think most good students can find enough peers to stay happy.</p>
<p>As an adult, I liked living in that area a lot–lots of hiking, outdoor stuff to do, and a vibrant college culture.</p>
<p>Having said all that, the chronic funding problems of UMASS are a major downside. Many of the best faculty leave when better offers come along (not all faculty have second homes in New England!)</p>
<p>Also, recent years have produced a lot of stories about students going wild in the streets. That was not the case when I lived there, but things change…</p>
<p>Sorry I can’t give a straight yes or no answer. CalTech and UChicago are among the best options out there. I wouldn’t go broke for one kid’s college, though. I think the best students rise to the top anywhere, including UMass.</p>