SatchelISF I completely agree with your broad legal assesment. Ironically your accurate quote if employed by the prosecutor will make a wreckless endangerment charge particularly challenging. The shooters attorney will argue he used the minimum amount of force necessary to eliminate the imminent threat he interpreted. Tragic.
“I’m also struck by Drejka’s apparent composure - perhaps the prosecutor may be able to make something of that. Single shot, deadly accurate to center of mass in the seconds after being physically assaulted, no wild emptying of the mag, no collateral damage. Quite a lot better than many trained police officers can do in stressful settings”!
^That’s a nice insight on a potential reckless endangerment charge.
All these aspects of the potential defense are obvious to me, and I don’t even pretend to have any experience in criminal defense work. SYG is incredibly popular in Florida, and given the nationwide growth in SYG statutes, this case will attract national attention. I suspect that there will be no shortage of top quality legal representation for the defendant.
As noted upthread, violent crime has decreased in the United States dramatically over the past two decades, and so in some ways fear of crime is overblown. This decrease has been accompanied by a massive increase in the number of firearms out in the public, and by an extraordinary rise in the prison population. Of course, correlation is not causality, but it does give thinking people pause…
I remember reading an analysis of gun deaths in the American Wild West of the mid- to late-19th century that concluded the level of gun violence was nowhere near as high as in contemporary American cities (at least as of a decade or two ago). Perhaps an armed society is a polite society?
Sylvan8798 I base that opinion on the aggressor turning tail once the weapon was produced and the shooter not being injured severely enough that he could have run away through the parking lot. Purely my opinion and subjective based on the video I have seen. Getting 12 people to agree unlikely and as mentioned not the legal standard required to acquit in a stand your ground state.
Apologies should have specified that as opinion not factual.
McGlockton does appear to retreat, but only after the appearance of the gun and when he was within a few feet at most of the defendant.
It takes a second or two minimum to form the thought to unholster one’s weapon, do so, raise it, aim and then fire. It’s not obvious that “normal” people can stop that process, nor that as a matter of policy they should be expected to. And keep in mind that this must happen within seconds of a violent assault. The article I referenced above quotes the great Oliver Wendell Holmes on an analogous point: “Detached reflection cannot be expected in the presence of an uplifted knife.” (p. 104). It will not be difficult to procure expert testimony on the neurobiology that is implicated in a situation like this. Plenty of reasonable doubt here.
Yes, as a matter of policy people who are allowed to carry guns should be expected not to shoot them every time they take them out of a holster. And maybe detached reflection cannot be expected in the presence of an uplifted knife, but there had better be an uplifted knife present, or society sure as shooting deserves some detached reflection. If you are not capable of that, you should not be carrying a gun around with you.
Everyone in Florida has a gun. It would not surprise me to learn that either the woman in the car or the boyfriend in the store had guns on their person or in the car. I told my kids to assume everyone they encountered had a gun so to act accordingly.
We weren’t allowed to have guns in our office even if the employee had a permit. Grumble, grumble, but people accepted that. We weren’t allowed to have guns in our cars parked at this office. Oh, that was a step too far! People just ignored that rule. These were attorneys and accountants and professionals who had no need for guns day to day. Well, then the Florida Dept of Wildlife and Fishing moved into half of one of the floors (my floor). They had guns. I mean GUNS! It didn’t make people feel safer, it made them jealous they couldn’t have their guns in the office.
I think there is no chance this guy will be convicted in Florida.
Studies that attempt to report gun ownership generally understate the actual number of guns. There are thousands of unregistered guns, so you can’t use registry information. And many gun owners are likely to lie or refuse to admit gun ownership on a survey - too many of them believe the data is being gathered so if/when gun control laws go into effect it can be used to come find the guns. Also, depending on how the survey is written people can answer honestly yet still give an answer that is nonresponsive; an example is if you ask me if I am a gun owner I will quickly, clearly and honestly reply no. My husband on the other hand is preparing for the zombie apocalypse or something so there are many guns in our house, in the vehicles, etc. So the survey would show I don’t own a gun (and I don’t) but the reality is due to DH, I have a gun within easy reach almost 24/7.
If a survey showed 32.5% gun ownership, I wouldn’t be surprised if the actual number was close to double that.
It’s not “everyone” in Florida, but I’d bet that it’s a clear majority of the nonhospitalized, ambulatory, driving, adult population. Just like @twoinanddone I teach my kids to assume everyone they encounter has a gun; avoid engaging no matter how bizarre the other person is acting - get away.
Looks like you may have edited it in after I replied.
It does make Florida look like a fearful dystopia where one is easily bullied due to fear of the bully having a gun, or one carries a gun because of fear that “everyone else” has a gun.
“Looks like you may have edited it in after I replied.”
Very possible. When I’m typing on a small screen for some reason proofreading is tougher for me; I’ll often post it to see what it looks like and go back to clean up.
Not sure I’d describe FL as a fearful dystopia, but it does attract its share of weirdos. I think Carl Hiassen had the best description of it - something along the lines of: looking at a map, Florida is at the bottom of the US. It sort of acts like a grease trap. When you shake the rest of the country, all the detritus rolls downhill and ends up at the lowest point.
Every time I watch the video, I notice something new.
For instance, look at Drejka’s face immediately prior to being approached and shoved. He was entirely focused on the girlfriend who was exiting the car. He did not even see McGlockton coming. McGlockton made no attempt to avoid violence, and clearly the girlfriend was in no danger (I mean, really, she’s voluntarily getting out of the car, leaving a toddler and an infant, and Drejka is backing away slightly).
Looks to me like McGlockton and his girlfriend were about to administer a coordinated beatdown to this guy. In walking from the store, McGlockton had plenty of time to consider exactly what he was planning to do. Drejka had basically milliseconds to form the thought of how to respond. Again, at least it looks to me that Drejka was completely unaware that McGlockton was even approaching until the final instant. You’d think that someone like McGlockton, living where he apparently had lived a few years prior (check the Pinellas County arrest records for home addresses, a very dangerous part of Clearwater) would have had more sense than to go off loaded for bear against anyone. He also spent time in prison (see his still undeleted Facebook page last updated from prison in 2010 - “be out in a few months”). Perhaps his rage overcame him.
It’s a sad story in some ways, of course. McGlockton’s adult arrest record starts not three months after his 18th birthday with “Aggravated Battery Domestic,” “Disorderly Conduct,” and “Resisting Arrest w/Violence.” His presumed juvenile record is sealed. He followed up quickly with various drug offenses, including cocaine sales and “Sale of Counterfeit Drugs,” petit theft, vehicle infractions, no registration or insurance, etc. But he has been relatively clean - at least as far as arrests - for the last 7 years or so. His girlfriend’s job is mentioned (just started as a nurse’s assistant) but no mention I could find of occupation for McGlockton or Drejka. Has anyone seen any reporting on this?
All parties made very bad decisions that day. None of these people is likely very bright. On balance, though, I’d say McGlockton’s was the most incomprehensibly bad, assuming that he and his girlfriend could easily administer a beatdown and not realizing that many in Florida are carrying. As a society we accept the principle, for hundreds of year now, that the high standards of proof required by the prosecution can have the effect of a guilty party sometimes going free, which is preferable to an innocent being wrongly convicted on weaker evidentiary standards. But I actually think Drejka’s actions were acceptable within the SYG law. Good luck getting that changed.
The immediately preceding section in that article discusses the question of causation or “instigation” (often in the context of the Trayvon Martin case), and again there is no real question here. It is not reasonably foreseeable that talking to someone in a parking lot - even berating them a bit - would lead immediately to someone coming charging from a different location to knock you off your feet.
The only issue here is going to be whether the prosecution can convince a jury that there was no way Drejka had an objectively reasonable belief at that moment that he was in imminent danger of great bodily harm. Considering that he was just knocked down and being approached by one actual and one potential aggressor, I’d say the prosecution is going to have a tough row to hoe. Just as in the Freddy Gray and Michael Brown cases, unfortunately, the politicians exploit these situations, exacerbating problems rather than helping. Then people are bewildered when the legal system functions as it was designed to do.
And that doesn’t even take into consideration the second man who followed McGlockton out of the store and headed in that same direction. What were his intentions?
You keep saying stuff like this, and I keep not seeing it anywhere on the video. I don’t see anything to indicate that the victim continued to approach the shooter after his initial shove. The stuff about the second man also threatening the shooter – I don’t see a single thing to justify that. I don’t think the shooter could even have seen him. You reiterate those ideas as if they were facts, and they are not facts.
^ Sure, different people will see different things in a grainy video, and it should be understood (and I’ll make explicit here) that I am only offering my opinion.
Do you see the part where McGlockton appears to begin to reach into his pockets and/or hike his shirt up?
Do you see that Drejka never even turns his head towards McGlockton until the millisecond before being knocked down? (Implying that McGlockton never called or or yelled, just silently walked up and BAM?)
I’m sure our own experiences color our perceptions of events. I grew up in a very dangerous place and time and saw a good deal of violence, and the lessons have stuck with me. That’s another reason why I’m surprised McGlockton acted the way he did. He knew what could happen out there. My opinion is he was planning an attack. Note that he didn’t run from the store (implying that there was no emergency) and yet just left his 5 year old in there wandering around. He was not the sharpest tool in the shed, that’s for sure, or he was just overcome with rage.
About the other guy following behind McGlockton, he looks Middle Eastern to me; I’m guessing he was the store clerk/owner, but that’s just a guess.