Nor would I, as most people aren’t afraid as they have guns to protect them.
I was shocked at the people I met who had guns. My boss/friend, a person who is very liberal and has the very dangerous hobbies of reading and sewing. Not one but two guns. I was shocked. The guy who sat in a cubicle in front of me. Mild mannered Eagle Scout with a 2 year old at home panicked when there was a shortage of ammo so joined a gun club (I heard all this because he did it from work on the phone) so he could have better access to ammo. Almost anyone who hunted or fished because it is legal, and suggested, to be armed if you are going on paths through the woods or near water. Alligators really do just appear.
I didn’t have a gun in my home or car, but I wasn’t a true Floridian. I think the number is much much higher than 1/3 of Florida household having guns. My friend’s gun wasn’t purchased in Florida so probably wouldn’t show up on any statistics. I don’t really know that much about registering handguns you already own when you move to a new state. I do know there is no fed registration for rifles and shotguns because I took possession of some and tried to transfer the registration and was told there is no way to do that. Some record somewhere might show I bought 8 shotguns 40 years ago, but I no longer live in Maryland, and I have no idea what happened to the guns.
@JHS - Sorry, I think I missed your implied question about the second “potential” aggressor. I should have been more explicit. The “actual” aggressor I mentioned was of course McGlockton, and that is not really up for debate. The “potential” aggressor is the girlfriend. She got out of the vehicle and could have joined in. Seen it happen myself once or twice. I honestly don’t know about the second man trailing McGlockton. As I said, he may well have been the store clerk/owner, and I agree that Drejka probably didn’t even see him, especially as he didn’t even appear to see McGlockton himself until the final instant.
Just as an aside, I do think it would be interesting to hear evidence about what set off McGlockton while in the store. I’ve seen various reports that vague “others” spoke to McGlockton and said his girlfriend was being harassed, others that the girlfriend herself called him directly. I’d love to know what she said if that’s the case! She might actually have been the “instigator” here, if she falsely reported something that she knew would reasonably set off her long term boyfriend (she obviously knew him better than anyone else on the scene here). Lots of questions, questions, let’s hope the evidence comes out. Not that the mob will read or digest any of it. As we saw in the Trayvon Martin and (especially) Michael Brown cases, the public has a remarkable ability to ignore facts and even common sense.
Just in case anyone thinks I am being hyperbolic in opining that the girlfriend was getting ready to join in an assault, see this situation (and please watch the video), which was a fairly big story in South Florida for a few days just a few months before the McGlockton/Drejka incident. Things can go sideways very quickly, even with women.
Getting back to our situation, here is a pretty clear video of some of the encounter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDtzofAUSJI (Also, note the YouTube comments. I sense we are getting to a very bad point (again), similar to what I saw in the 70s and 80s growing up.)
We don’t get the whole encounter. Drejka was apparently talking to the girlfriend for quite some time. At 1:03ff you see Drejka apparently talking, and pointing out at least two and possibly three non-handicapped spots that McGlockton could have parked in. (And note the video at 0:54ff - these spots were open when they arrived at the store. McGlockton and the girlfriend simply didn’t care to comply with a basic rule of civility, and amazingly at 1:10ff the girlfriend still thinks she “has the right” to park anywhere she wants.)
Some time obviously passes, because when the video resumes at 1:13ff two cars had already arrived and their passengers exited, as two of the spots are now taken. Note how the girlfriend decides to exit at the very moment that McGlockton comes into the picture, after having been in her car for the whole time. And when the whole video comes out, my bet is that we are going to see nothing aggressive from Drejka’s end in that missing time. Again, my opinion is that they were planning a beatdown, and just got surprised that the victim was packing. The young woman in the first video who was beaten and bloodied by the two baseball bat wielders shows the need to be armed.
I guess you’re right, twoinanddone, post 25. There are parking control laws that exist, but those that are willing to break the law, well, break the law. Maybe we need more handicap parking control laws?
And there are assault control laws about shoving a guy to the ground during a verbal argument, but those that are willing to break that law, well, break that law.
@JHS re: your post #58: I have seen the video four or five times on CNN. Each time that I watch, I am amazed that none of the announcers or guests remark on the steps toward the shooter taken by the deceased after the deceased violently pushed the shooter onto the concrete. Arguably it could just be the deceased continued momentum after executing the violent shove, but to me it looks like an intent to further attack the shooter.
Like @SatchelSF : I also see the second man & the woman inside the car as moving toward the shooter while he was on the ground.
Under Florida law, it will be tough to convict the shooter unless the shooter yelled threatening fighting words overheard by the deceased. However, no such allegation has been made against the shooter.
Agreed as to the law. As to the factual hypothetical I am pretty confident that no “fighting words” were yelled. See the video - Drejka did not even turn his head towards McGlockton at any point until the final instant. He was totally focused on the girlfriend’s activities.
Re conviction, though, anything can happen at a trial. Strategically, the Second Amendment and SYG guys might not want to present SYG because of the risk an adverse ruling could hurt the law. They might just go straight self-defense (as in the Zimmerman Trayvon case), as his ability to retreat was cut off and fewer than 4 seconds elapsed from violent shove to the shot. At least for the first 3 seconds of that period, the larger and younger McGlockton was within “wingspan” of Drejka.
Straight self defense worked well in the Trayvon case, although of course the evidence was convincing that the larger Trayvon was attacking Zimmerman (who was prone) and perhaps even going for the gun. Slightly tougher burden, though, for Drejka if they go self-defense only.
Also, I originally thought McGlockton was playing with his pockets or shirt, but on close watching of the video again a few times, I think he was just hiking up his low rider “prison fashion” pants to continue the attack. He does the same move upon leaving the store, establishing pattern and indicating state of mind (aggressor is adjusting his clothing in order to gain freedom of movement to do maximum damage). It’s immaterial anyway to the defense. McGlockton’s move could reasonably be taken as going for a weapon by a man who had just been knocked off his feet and was being approached by at least two malicious actors.
I’m sorry. I look at that tape and I see an utterly immoral, senseless killing. I see absolutely nothing to justify what the shooter did. Nothing. Not being shoved, not being yelled at, and certainly not wanton disregard for parking regulations. It’s not a close case; it’s an object lesson in what someone should never do. If a person chooses to carry a deadly weapon, I think he or she has an obligation not to kill people with it absent much more dire circumstances.
I am profoundly troubled by the arguments some posters are making here to justify this killing. Yes, the victim was violent in some sense, and clearly committed a battery. But there was nothing remotely approaching serious bodily injury, nor was there anything like an “upraised knife,” much less two aggressive women carrying baseball bats and cutting off escape. Nor did the gun go off by accident. The killer drew, aimed, paused, and then shot deliberately to kill. If the people of Florida think that is OK, they have lost their moral compass. I am glad I don’t live among people like that.
@JHS: The state of mind of the shooter is very important for a stand your ground defense. Also, the sheriff saw enough to prevent him & his dept. from bringing charges. Sent it over to State Attorney’s Office after public outcry.
@SatchelSF : Not presenting a SYG defense would be malpractice/ineffective assistance of counsel in this case & with that videotape.
It is interesting how people see different things even with a videotape. Shows how eye witness testimony has resulted in so many wrongful convictions (which couldn’t be proven wrongful until DNA evidence became available).
Would “stand your ground” be relevant to this case, since “stand your ground” means no “duty to retreat”, but it does not look like Drejka was in a position to be able to safely retreat if McGlockton were still a threat? If not, then the case would be more of a generic “was use of deadly force in self-defense justified in this case?” based on whether there was actual threat, whether there was a reasonable perception of threat, and how the incident started/developed.
For what it is worth, “stand your ground” is not unique to Florida. Most states in the US have it, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law . Most of those which do not have it do have “castle doctrine” (the special case of “stand your ground” in your home), though that obviously is not applicable here.
But then, Florida seems to be unlike many other places, since people posting here seem to be saying that everyone there lives in fear of everyone else carrying a concealed gun and being willing to use it rather quickly, or otherwise being a criminal threat. Florida’s violent crime rate appears to be above the national average ( https://ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeStatebyState.cfm ), though not as high as in some other states.
Then be profoundly thankful that you don’t have to. Some people can’t afford to live anywhere else. Different rules.
(I know you were talking about Florida generally - you couldn’t be more wrong, btw, Floridians are great - but I am talking about the neighborhoods where all these parties, including Drejka, lived. People who have actual experience in similar areas know exactly what happened here, and why.)
Please stop spreading such horrible lies. We are already too full down here and can’t seem to stop the influx. Be sure to tell your friends up north about what ignorant savages live here deep in the swamp. If the alligators don’t eat you, you are bound to be shot in the streets. Stay up north where you are to be safe. TYIA.
About Florida and violence. I grew up in the Bronx - about 1.1M people total in the county and approximately 600 murders per year back then. Very strict gun laws of course that were completely ignored by everyone.
Florida has about 900 or so murders per year and 21M people. Pretty lax gun laws. I’ll take Florida thanks.
Citizens with guns do not keep people safe. This is a piece of mythology sold to you by the NRA. If someone is really interested in keeping their family safe they would not allow guns in the house.
Another point worth making is that confirmation bias rules discussions like this. Pro-gun-in-public people see the victim as someone who was about to administer a beat down to the shooter. People like me see the shooter as just another gun-toting bumhole emboldened to confront people in public over minor offenses based on his willingness to shoot people. Only one of these views has actual evidence.
I am going to add an anecdote since that seems to be the theme. I went to a store with a co-worker who regularly carries his pistol and has been known to walk around with an AK-47. There were 3 teenagers hanging out near a car in the parking lot not too far from where we parked. He talked about how he was ready to protect us in case those thugs tried to do something. He sees threats lurking around every corner. I won’t live that way.
" Pro-gun-in-public people see the victim as someone who was about to administer a beat down to the shooter…Only one of these views has actual evidence".
I am not a pro gun person but I saw someone in the midst of administering a beat down (not about to). The deceased knocked the man to the ground and then him and his girlfriend advanced. Launching yourself into someone else from their blind side is a beat down. Think recent Wake Forest assistant coach incident where victim died from hitting the sidewalk.
That is what I saw even though I question the use of deadly force. Please don’t generalize people’s politics and what we see.
“Launching?” “Blind side?” “In the midst of administering a beat down?” None of that is on the video.
McGlockton walked out of the store toward the car. A launch would require running and both feet leaving the ground. He pushed the guy from the side, not behind, and not blind-side unless the guy is blind in one eye. After pushing Drejka, he reaches down and pulls his loose shorts up with both hands. He took one step forward to position himself between his girlfriend and the guy who was harassing her. That’s chivalry, not aggression. I’ve been in more street fights than I care to admit to and not once did it look to me like McGlockton was going to punch Drejka.
He sees the gun and starts to back up. It takes both conjecture and imagination to justify shooting a person backing up.