I have been admitted to the University of Michigan and Notre Dame. I am a resident of the state of Michigan, but have received a scholarship for full cost of attendance at Michigan, and I would have to pay about 10-12k/year at ND with Fin. Aid included. I am looking into going into Econ. or something physics/engineering related with an eventual goal to go to law school. What would be the best school to go to in order to get into the best law school. Further, is the prestige/name recognition greater for once university or the other when it comes to applying to grad. schools/jobs. Please help.
Michigan is stronger in Econ and STEM. Not worth paying 50K more for Notre Dame unless you have an strong affinity for ND.
Law schools don’t really care about where the degree is from.
Really, there are no wrong answers here. Both Michigan and Notre Dame are excellent universities. You can get into a great law school from either. Both have great name recognition and prestige when it comes to applying for grad/law school and jobs.
Do you have a preference for one or the other? Do you prefer the atmosphere, size, or something else about one or the other?
The size of ND, to me, is slightly better than UMich, but UMich’s size really isn’t a turnoff. Too, are the research opportunities better at one university or the other. Primarily I would be focuses on getting into the best law school possible, and want to be sure the brand of one university doesn’t outweigh the other.
“Primarily I would be focuses on getting into the best law school possible, and want to be sure the brand of one university doesn’t outweigh the other.”
Michigan Law School, which is one of the top 10 on the nation, gives serious preference to Michigan alumni.
As far as brands go, you cannot beat those two universities. They both have excellent brands. I would recommend Michigan because it would save you $50k over 4 years. That’s money you could spend on law school. On the other hand, there is something to be said for fit, and if you prefer Notre Dame to Michigan, there is no harm in going there.
“Michigan Law School, which is one of the top 10 on the nation, gives serious preference to Michigan alumni.”
Michigan Law denies this and says only that UM undergrads are not at a DISadvantage.
https://www.law.umich.edu/prospectivestudents/admissions/Pages/faq.aspx
If you visited both, you would see the enormous differences in going about your daily routine at each school. Notre Dame has a largish but secluded campuswhere the only people you will see are associated with the university & the occasional tourist; only a few stores & restaurants adjacent to campus.
Michigan has a huge sprawling campus that might require bus travel to get around. Huge variety of bars, restaurants & shops close to campus. Huge variety of people all over too, including more than their share of panhandlers and other people whom you might find irritating.
The life at these 2 universities almost couldnt be more different.
These schools are very similar in reputation and prestige, I think Notre Dame has a slight edge, but not enough if you wanted to save the 40K a year and go to Michigan. They are both very good schools. I think two important things you should weigh are finances (is that $40k significant for you for law school?) and fit. These would be two very different experiences. On one hand, both schools are big sports schools and are located in cities of over 100,000 people - so not major metropolitan areas like NY/Chicago/DC, but there is plenty to do in both cities in terms of bars, restaurants and shopping. However, Michigan, as a state school, has a significantly larger student population and campus size vs Notre Dame. You should spend some time thinking about which type of college life/campus situation appeals to you more. Good luck with your decision!
“These schools are very similar in reputation and prestige, I think Notre Dame has a slight edge,…”
This is false information. Michigan’s reputation in academia is higher than ND’s.
“On one hand, both schools are big sports schools and are located in cities of over 100,000 people - so not major metropolitan areas like NY/Chicago/DC, but there is plenty to do in both cities in terms of bars, restaurants and shopping”
Here is where you lose me completely. Ann Arbor>>>>>>South Bend. It’s actually not even that close!
" I am a resident of the state of Michigan, but have received a scholarship for full cost of attendance at Michigan, and I would have to pay about 10-12k/year at ND with Fin. Aid included."
Is room and board included at both schools or neither? Everything considered, I do not see the benefit of going into substantial debt for an equivalent education. If you are instate and getting free tuition at Michigan, then it’s more than likely a debt that large is not something you’d want to incur. Go to Michigan and be thankful that the university is willing to cover your tuition costs!
@IBBer3466633 “Michigan’s reputation in academia is higher than ND’s” – This is false information. They are both very good schools, but Notre Dame has a slight edge in prestige. You will see this by looking at virtually every ranking service out there and also by looking at available stats such as acceptance rate (ND more selective), mid-50 applicant test scores (ND higher), retention rate (ND higher), 4-year grad rate (ND higher), etc., etc. You are able to research the various rankings and find all this information yourself and I hope you do - if that is truly meaningful to your decision. However, as I said, there’s not enough difference between the two schools that it warrants an additional $40k a year if you need the money for law school. In terms of Ann Arbor and South Bend, is there more going on in Ann Arbor? Probably. UMich is an urban campus right in the middle of the city and the student pop is much larger. But Notre Dame is not in the middle of a corn field. It’s a suburban campus adjacent to a city of 100K people with plenty of bars, restaurants, malls, concert arena, etc. You have to decide for yourself what vibe you want in your daily life.
Just keep in mind that other than facts that you are free to look up yourself, some of what you read on CC is the opinions of people with their own history and biases. It is useful to get other people’s opinions because it often gives one food for thought. But it would serve you well to remember that often posts are just that - opinions - so take what you read with a grain of salt, do your own research to verify what you read and make your own decision. As for what I said above about rankings and student data, that is all available for you to verify online.
My advice remains the same when dealing with schools this similar - it comes down to finances and fit.
“Michigan Law denies this and says only that UM undergrads are not at a Disadvantage.”
Hanna, Michigan is not going to publicize that it gives priority to Michigan alumni. But I have seen the admissions data. Michigan alumni are admitted at a higher acceptance rate, and the average LSAT and GPA of admitted Michigan alumni are slightly lower than those of the class. Michigan is not alone in this practice. Virtually all law schools give preference to their own alumni. The same goes for Medical schools and MBA programs.
“Michigan’s reputation in academia is higher than ND’s” – This is false information. They are both very good schools, but Notre Dame has a slight edge in prestige.
Actually waitningmomia, rjkofnovi’s statement is correct. In academic, Michigan has a strong reputation than Notre Dame. Look at any academia-based survey and you will see that Michigan has a higher rating than Notre Dame. That is not surprising considering the fact that Michigan is an academic powerhouse in virtually every field of study, and academia values academic prowess above all else. That being said, Notre Dame is an elite university and offers an exceptional undergraduate education that rivals any in the nation, including that offered at Michigan.
As for prestige, it really depends whom you ask, but I would not reference rankings to prove a point since rankings are hardly ever accurate, depend on flawed and childishly simplistic methodologies and are more often than not gamed by many universities to make themselves look better. Needless to say, among devout Catholics, Notre Dame will likely be more prestigious than Michigan. Michigan will be more prestigious than Notre Dame in any technical field. In most other quarters, I would estimate that the two universities are highly regarded, and it is impossible to determine which of the two is more prestigious.
Actually @Alexandre, you and I (and rjkofnovi) have had this same conversation in a prior thread and I have no interest in repeating it with either of you and having another OPs question be hijacked. As I’ve already said to you, I disagree that academia views Michigan as superior to Notre Dame, and I refuted the surveys you offered to me at that time.
“Needless to say, among devout Catholics, Notre Dame will likely be more prestigious than Michigan” - this comment is outrageously stereotypical and highly insulting. Would you say the same thing about someone’s opinion of an all-women’s college or an HBCU? I’m betting no.
I find it fascinating that you say “rankings” are flawed, then base your own argument on academia-based “surveys”. I agree there is much debate on the various rankings, but despite any real or perceived shortcomings, when the result is the same almost every time, it builds a picture. Notre Dame consistently prevails. And you believe rankings are flawed but that peer surveys are without bias?
As I said - the OP has access to Google and is free to do their own research to verify what I have said if it is meaningful to their decision.
“Actually @Alexandre, you and I (and rjkofnovi) have had this same conversation in a prior thread and I have no interest in repeating it with either of you and having another OPs question be hijacked. As I’ve already said to you, I disagree that academia views Michigan as superior to Notre Dame, and I refuted the surveys you offered to me at that time.”
With only 123 posts, you must not comment often on CC and perhaps that is why I don’t recall your screen name. That you disagree that academia views Michigan as superior to ND is your misfortune, but don’t expect others to simply ignore your incorrect and biased opinion.
“Michigan has a huge sprawling campus that might require bus travel to get around. Huge variety of bars, restaurants & shops close to campus. Huge variety of people all over too, including more than their share of panhandlers and other people whom you might find irritating.”
Not as irritating as being stuck on a campus adjacent to South Bend. No thank you!
@rjkofnovi Yes, I always find that argument fascinating, the belief that because one has spent more time on CC that they are more informed on a given subject matter. As for an “incorrect and biased opinion” you rule the day there. As I said, information comparing Notre Dame to Michigan is all available online for the OP to verify for himself or herself with a little research. I know that the rankings and school/student data are there to support my comments.
“I am looking into going into Econ. or something physics/engineering related with an eventual goal to go to law school.”
Compared to ND Michigan has a stronger economics department, stronger physics department, stronger engineering college, and a stronger law school that does indeed favor its own graduates. In terms of worldwide prestige and recognition, it is completely on a different and higher level than ND. I see no value in attending ND and paying 50K for someone who can attend Michigan for free. (Assuming that is actually the cost difference between the two.)
OP see this exchange for what it is and do your research. Its very simple. Facts are facts. If it doesn’t matter to you, then consider going to Michigan to save the $40k for law school. Good luck to you.
Here is a quote from Alexandre here on CC comparing ND to Michigan from 2011:
“happy1, I don’t see how Michigan being three times larger than Notre Dame justifies the 8:1 placement advantage that it enjoys over Notre Dame at Michigan Law, Yale Law and Michigan medical or the 5:1 advantage at UVa Law.”
Alexandre is a long time super moderator here on CC that doesn’t make up statistics. Facts are facts; Michigan places at a higher rate its graduates into top Law schools.