OK, can you folks take all of this squabbling somewhere else???
OP, you have two fantastic schools here. You can’t go wrong. Since the finances have worked out, I’d make sure to go back and visit both and then choose based on fit. Good luck to you and let us know what you decide.
“Since the finances have worked out, I’d make sure to go back and visit both and then choose based on fit.”
I’d say paying 50K more for an equivalent education should help solve “fit” problems.
@Alexandre My first post to OP said I felt there is not enough difference between them to greatly impact OP’s decision, which in this case should be based on finances and fit. So you’re preaching to the choir. You and your cohort are the ones who entered the conversation with your claims of UM’s supposed superiority in academia.
“First of all, do not dismiss the THE ranking. It is the gold standard outside of the US, although like all rankings, it is extremely flawed. And contrary to your claim, there are several other college rankings that have Michigan ranked higher than Notre Dame in addition to QS and THE”
I do dismiss THE (on both ends) because it is inconsistent (world UM>ND; U.S. ND>UM). And QS also ranks - just 2 examples - UMaryland over Emory and UMinnesota over Dartmouth, Vandy & ND. Really? Re your other examples -
business insider - a poll of solely students and parents asked which school they would attend if money was no object. Hardly the same thing.
CNBC/Money - is Best Colleges “For Your Money”, and looks like they used Michigan’s in-state tuition rates, so no surprise it prevailed over ND there
The Best Colleges – never heard of this. However, anything that ranks William & Mary at #5, over Stanford, Cal Tech, UChic, a boat-load of high level LACs and all of the ivy league except Harvard and Princeton would - like QS - not be something I would hang my hat on.
“There are also rankings that rank Notre Dame higher than Michigan are the US News (10 spots higher among national universities), Forbes (6 spots higher among national universities) and THE College edition (2 spots higher among national universities) and Niche (6 spots higher among national universities.”
You are mistaken. US News (ND 18, UM 28), Forbes (ND 26, UM 38), THE US College (ND 24, UM 27), Niche (ND 16, UM 23). Plus College Factual (ND 10, UM 57).
I have to be honest, this made me laugh out loud. So the US News overall rankings (which put ND 10 spots over UM) are, in your words, “extremely flawed”. Yet the US News peer assessment score – which is used to calculate the US News overall rankings – is what you’re offering up as your “proof” that academia rates UM higher than ND? This score is actually the most flawed piece of the overall ranking.
Here’s WashPo’s comments (9/2017) on academia’s piece of the US News rankings for 2018 - “Some presidents, provosts and admissions deans have told me over the years that they don’t fill out the forms themselves because they don’t really have a deep understanding of other schools’ programs. And they doubt that many of those who do complete the survey possess a deep understanding. How many college leaders have time to investigate and then rank their competitors fairly? Counselors know about a lot of schools because they help students decide where to apply, but their jobs are to find the best student-college fit, not figure out which school is better than the other. Besides, the 2018 rankings include data on more than 1,800 colleges and universities, including nearly 1,400 that were ranked. Counselors generally have a group of schools with which they are familiar and can’t be expected to be able to rank the quality of a lot of schools. How valuable, then, is this important factor?”
And in response to your Go blue comment – only one of these schools currently has a 2018 NCAA Championship Basketball Trophy sitting on its shelf. How did the men’s game work out for you last week? The women’s game worked out great for us 
GO IRISH!!!
@rjkofnovi, the OP said it will cost about $6500/year to attend ND, and that he will come out with no debt. That’s a pretty great deal, so we aren’t talking about a $50K difference anymore. Half that, and no debt. I think fit wins in this situation.
OP, with regard to law school, either school will get you where you want to go.
I love sports talk.
The men’s ND basketball team didn’t even make the NCAA tournament field this year, which of course is 68 teams. Of course, MIchigan lost to much more talented Nova team in the championship game. Michigan won the Big 10. ND finished 10th in the ACC.
I neglected to mention that Michigan plays ND TONIGHT at 9:30 PM EST in the men’s semifinal of the Frozen Four.
Go BLUE and Go IRISH!
“I have to be honest, this made me laugh out loud. So the US News overall rankings (which put ND 10 spots over UM) are, in your words, “extremely flawed”. Yet the US News peer assessment score – which is used to calculate the US News overall rankings – is what you’re offering up as your “proof” that academia rates UM higher than ND?”
That is correct. Now you’re catching on! Too many private schools MANIPULATE their data to make themselves look better to USNWR. I’m not saying Notre Dame cheats with reported figure however…
They did cheat rather badly in football just recently:
with the end resulting in:
Guess which team is the all time leader in victories and winning percentage?
Michigan Go Blue!
“How did the men’s game work out for you last week? The women’s game worked out great for us GO IRISH!!!”
Wonderful! zzzzzzzzzzz
@sushiritto ND men’s basketball started strong but then had several injuries. Women’s basketball are champs! And I’m sure you realize ND football finished way ahead of Michigan this year (NCAA final rank ND 11 vs Michigan not even ranked). Plus ND had a tougher strength of schedule, so seriously, you must be kidding??
Forgot hockey game was on tonight! May the best team win
“@rjkofnovi, the OP said it will cost about $6500/year to attend ND, and that he will come out with no debt. That’s a pretty great deal, so we aren’t talking about a $50K difference anymore. Half that, and no debt. I think fit wins in this situation.”
“I am a resident of the state of Michigan, but have received a scholarship for full cost of attendance at Michigan, and I would have to pay about 10-12k/year at ND with Fin. Aid included.”
Missed the message with the cost being $6500.00/year. If that is the case, and the OP can afford the difference, then I agree with your statement.
"I neglected to mention that Michigan plays ND TONIGHT at 9:30 PM EST in the men’s semifinal of the Frozen Four:
ND is the better hockey team this year. That Michigan made it to the frozen four is also a nice surprise.
“And I’m sure you realize ND football finished way ahead of Michigan this year (NCAA final rank ND 11 vs Michigan not even ranked). Plus ND had a tougher strength of schedule,…”
…until they get caught with academic fraud again.
@waitingmomla All true, but Bonzie Colson did come back. ND lost to Duke in the ACC tourney. I think ND should have made the 68 team tournament.
As for football, every year is different. How did the ND football team do in the 2016-2017 season? 
(for those that don’t know, ND had a 4-8 record).
And they’ll settle it on the field 9/1.
BTW, Michigan MAY have a transfer QB this season, Shea Patterson from Ole Miss, who was a 5-star recruit in HS. Just like ND had basketball injuries, last season, Michigan’s starting QB, WIlton Speight, and his replacement, Brandon Peters, were injured.
Notwithstanding, I’ll be rooting for both teams.
@sushiritto All true, much as we try to blank 2016 from our memories, lol. Let’s hope for a good game tonight!
“ND is the better hockey team this year. That Michigan made it to the frozen four is also a nice surprise.”
Was, not is. At the moment, Michigan is one of the hottest teams in College Hockey. The the team started off very poorly, but they have won 9 of their last 10 games, including 2 against Notre Dame. Hopefully, they can keep going.
I’m not a big hockey fan, having grown up on the West Coast. But I really enjoyed watching the women’s Olympic Hockey Final between the USA and Canada. That was an awesome hockey game. So, I’ll definitely watch the ND-Michigan game tonight. Whoever wins, I’ll root for them in the title game.
There are multiple dimensions to universities, which really makes rankings difficult if not impossible if there is not crystal clarity on what is being ranked. In this discussion, I can understand what both sides are saying. Michigan has higher ranked graduate programs and is a top research university compared to Notre Dame. These likely contribute strongly to “academic prestige”. Indeed, relatively few universities can go to-to-toe with Michigan in this regard. A number of the rankings are biased this way.
But I think the world would be a poorer place if we only allowed large research universities. Schools like Williams, which would obviously do poorly in graduate study (only two masters degree programs) and research. Williams focuses on undergraduate education, teaching, small classes, advising, and a residential experience. They are tough to match in this regard. USNews deals with this by having a category for liberal arts colleges.
But there are schools that fall somewhere on the ill-defined continuum in between these points. Notre Dame might fit somewhere in here along with schools like Wake Forest, William and Mary, etc.
The universe of schools that can function as a graduate/research powerhouse without sacrificing some undergraduate focus and intimacy is probably pretty small. Princeton comes to mind as a school that comes pretty close, so all it might take to do this is having a very high sticker price and a $22+ Billion endowment for only 8K students (even with no medical school). But even then, Princeton may not be able to cover all areas of graduate study and research as well as Berkeley, for instance.
You can certainly argue this either way, but I’m not sure what the point is. Both are fine schools and the OP should focus on what matters for them.
“Michigan has higher ranked graduate programs and is a top research university compared to Notre Dame.”
It also has higher ranked undergraduate programs, where there are valid rankings of course.
And possibly ranks even higher at being argumentative.
Thanks for everyone’s comments yet I’m still conflicted as ever (Ugh!). I will say that right now I am more of a ND fam but I’m sure that will change if I choose to go to umich. Such a tough decision. I would say that ND degree has bigger wow factor where I live only because I live in state in metro Detroit.
Out of curiosity, may I ask what you decided? Notre Dame was originally my top choice, with Michigan hardly crossing my mind. I loved the size, prestige, and “home” feeling of ND, but was ultimately waitlisted; however, it worked to my advantage, because I actually gave Michigan a chance and loved it when I visited! I was really impressed by the immense opportunities, academic rigor, and most importantly, cost (with financial aid). Either are awesome, so good luck and congrats!