Unpleasant Discussion during break

Parent Cafe
1

<p>It breaks my heart to say this, but my son and I really need to work some things out during his Thanksgiving break. He is a sophomore and this is the first time we’ve really had to have it out parent to child. Of course he’s an adult now and these are adult issues but I still think of him as my child. He’s totally financially dependant on us, so I think I have a right to comment, but I don’t want to throw that in his face.</p>

<p>We are having the usual problems - wrong girlfriend, grades dropping, too much texting/phone time, and a major, major attitude towards us (his parents). To top it off, he’s built a wall around himself - making it very clear that he doesn’t want to talk about these things with us. </p>

<p>He will be home for about a week so I have some time to plan it out. I don’t want to jump on him the minute he gets home, but I don’t want to let it simmer either - I’ve already been stewing for a few months. I’m assuming most people cross this bridge at some point, I just didn’t think I’d have to (things had been going so well) I also don’t want to alienate him but I am his parent and I think it is right for me to speak up.</p>

<p>Advice?</p>

2

<p>I wouldn’t mention the girlfriend at all and all kids text too much. I’d just tell him if his grades don’t improve he is on his own and stick to it. </p>

<p>I wouldn’t draw the conversation out, either. Just say your piece and be done with it.</p>

3

<p>It sounds as if many, if not most, of the communication issues might center on the “wrong girlfriend.” That, though, is the one thing I would urge you not to bring up. Since he’s financially dependent, I’d agree you have the right to discuss his grades, texting/phone excesses, and attitude toward you. I can all but guarantee that the discussion will go poorly if you lead off with the girlfriend issues, or if you refer to her during the conversation in other than accepting terms.</p>

<p>I’m presuming that she’s not a criminal, has no substance abuse issues, and is not trying to drive a wedge between your son and his family. Even if she is, the chances are good that your son will hear any criticism of the girlfriend as criticism of himself, since he chose this girl and cares about her.</p>

<p>I’d notify him in advance that you want a serious conversation during Thanksgiving break. You can tell him in neutral terms - “There are some important things I need to talk with you about. I need about 30 minutes of your time. When should we do this?” I wouldn’t get dragged into a conversation sooner than the appointed time. If he says he won’t, I’d tell him that it’s a condition of your continued financial support. I would bite my tongue until I was sure that I didn’t turn the conversation into a venting session. Vent to a friend, or here.</p>

<p>I think you have the right to make him more responsible for his phone plan, his spending money, and/or his college costs. I’d set concrete goals for your continued financial support, and perhaps some limits on the cell phone usage. I wouldn’t tie that into his relationship. Think of it from his point of view. He (presumably) loves a girl and wants to be in frequent contact with her. School is hard and the girl is more interesting/reinforcing. His parents are disapproving and past conversations with them have been difficult. So he avoids talking to his parents. Maybe not mature, but pretty common.</p>

4

<p>Congrats on getting this far without hitting any bumps in the road. </p>

<p>Since you have some time, think about a couple of things: What is your goal for the conversation? To point out the errors of his ways or to improve your relationship with him? How can you make sure he knows that you love him unconditionally during this time? He must certainly know or feel like he is letting you down. Hence, the wall/attitude. Can you be sure to start with some positives in your conversation? If he starts to talk, can you listen without judging/commenting, or at least being very careful and respectful with the comments? I would not say anything about the girlfriend either. Well, actually, knowing me, I probably would, and then I would regret it . . .</p>

5

<p>dont bring up the girlfreind. at all.</p>

<p>If you do, and he stays with her? You’ll be the one on the outside. Just don’t do it.</p>

<p>The grades are all you’ve got. Good luck.</p>

6

<p>Hey at least you know stuff about the girlfriend!!! As stated talk about distractions in general terms, no gf specific talk…if you go there, he will get all defensive, because to him she isn’t a problem.</p>

<p>Grades are much more tangible and something you can easily say you need to fix this…and focus…I wouldn’t give him a heads up either not by too much time anyway…</p>

7

<p>How do you know the girlfriend is wrong? Have you lived with her?</p>

<p>Just smile and appraise, you will find friends. Remember, your S not only is your son, but also you have to make him the BEST friend.</p>

8

<p>I have to agree with the other posters here: absolutely do NOT bring the girlfriend into the conversation. Or you will have lost before you’ve even begun.</p>

<p>The discussion will have a better chance of being productive if you make it a real dialog and not a lecture. You might start by telling him that you love him and that you are hurt by his change in attitude towards you. Be sure to give some specific examples of what he has done/not done that make you feel that way. Ask him to explain why he acted the way he did in those situations* and then listen to his answer.* You may be surprised – he may not think he’s acting badly and/or may have a totally different perspective on what happened. In fact, he may not even be aware that you interpreted his words/actions the way you did. (This is certainly not uncommon with many adolescent males!)</p>

<p>Handle the grades issue in a similar fashion. [Do NOT automatically assume that the lower grades are because of his girlfriend or excessive texting/phone time! There could be a whole host of other reasons for falling grades.] Ask him why HE thinks his grades are slipping – and what HE plans to do in order to turn the situation around. That way, you are treating him as an adult and you haven’t put him on the defensive at the very start. You can make it clear that these lower grades are unacceptable to you and that continued financial support is dependent upon a specific improvement in grades within a certain time period; you can also offer suggestions such as going to the professor for extra help during his office hours, looking into available tutoring programs, forming study groups, etc. But ultimately, he’s the one who has to follow through on any action plan so it’s important that it be HIS plan and not just some “extra burdens” that you are imposing on him.</p>

<p>I know this won’t be an easy conversation, but hang in there. Keep it civil and adult – even if you have to bite your tongue on occasion. Good luck!</p>

9

<p>Definitely stay away from the GF topic. </p>

<p>Other than grades, if you are paying the cell bill (family plan?), I believe that is fair game as well. </p>

<p>And no, he doesn’t “have” to talk to you about GF, but needs to treat you with respect, as he should every adult. If by "attitude’ you mean disrespect, then that should be addressed. But be willing to listen – perhaps he is just reflecting back his perceived ‘parental attitude’ towards him.</p>

10

<p>Done there, done that. I agree with the above advice.</p>

<p>I became alarm when, in the 6 months of high school, son started to shut us out. Here’s what I learned…you are now dealing with an adult who is living a separate life. True, he is financially dependent on you but you really have no control over what he is doing at this point. You can try to control him by cutting him off financially but that tends to end badly and doesn’t accomplish your goal of having him get a college education.</p>

<p>You have to tread carefully because once they shut you out, you lose that ability to influence them. And, really, at this point, all you can do is offer advice and hope it has some influence on their decisions.</p>

<p>Pick one or two things and forget the rest. In our house, we have said that grades and safety are the top priorities. Talking disrespectfully to us is also not good.</p>

<p>I would tackle the grade situation and just plainly state, “these are our expectations regarding grades and if you don’t meet those expectations, then we are going to need to re-group on your college strategy.”</p>

<p>As for the attitude - instead of saying “You can’t talk disrespectfully to us”, talk about how you feel when he does that. “I feel hurt when you talk to me in that tone of voice.” I say this any time son gets snarky with me and the snarkiness has decreased exponentially. </p>

<p>I would let all the other stuff go. He has a right to pick and choose his girlfriends and to determine how much time he invests in the relationship or in other activities. If he can do that and keep his grades at an acceptable level, then he has met your expectations.</p>

<p>I’ve worked very hard over the last year to open up communication with my son. Once they shut you out there is nothing you can do. By talking positively (or at least neutrally) to him about his friends (even the ones I’m not crazy about) he now will share some of his concerns with me and I can offer him advice. Before he told me as little as possible because he was afraid of being criticized or judged. No one likes to be criticized or judged.</p>

<p>That doesn’t mean I don’t offer advice when I’m concerned about a situation but I try to be very careful to treat him like an adult. Our relationship has transformed dramatically over the last 18 months because of the way I changed my approach in dealing with him. Yes, he still does things I don’t like but he seems more receptive to listening to me if I approach in a non-judgement way. Good luck.</p>

11

<p>Decide with your husband just what grades your son needs to reach to ensure your continued financial support.</p>

<p>“Sweetie, you know we love you, but for our financial goals, it is not worth underwriting your academics unless you maintain a X.XX GPA. To fund your performance at any lower grades would be a disservice to you and your future. You are too bright for us to support underperformance. College is a privilege, not a right. If you are not ready to meet your obligations to achieve, that is fine. You will have to take out your own loans, or drop-out and find a full time job to support yourself.”</p>

<p>Or maybe: “Darling, if you do not maintain this X.XX GPA, we’ll be happy to pay community college tuition instead and move you back into your old bedroom.” (This will solve the GF issue as well!)</p>

<p>Once a student understands that tuition, room & board are part of a business arrangement in which he drives the outcome, he can choose to steer himself towards success and continued college fun, or the Real World and minimum wage.</p>

12

<p>How about this: Ignore the girlfriend, the texting, and the attitude. Also ignore “having it out.”</p>

<p>Instead, have a conversation with him about his grades. He’s at a crucial stage in college – the stage where you have to make a commitment to a major. But his dropping grades suggest that he has some sort of problem. You could ask him if he has figured out what the problem is and whether he has any ideas of how to deal with it – and whether he would like to brainstorm with you about ways to deal with it. </p>

<p>You might hear something like this:</p>

<p>“I still want to major in business, but now that I’m a sophomore, I have to take things like economics and accounting that have a lot of math in them. I’m really struggling with the math, and I don’t know what to do about it.”</p>

<p>Or you might hear this:</p>

<p>“I don’t want to be an engineering major anymore. I hate it and I’m not doing well in it. But I don’t know what to do instead.”</p>

<p>Or you might hear this (this one actually happened to one of my friends):</p>

<p>“I know that I told you that I wanted to major in X, but I don’t want that anymore. I have taken four Y courses, and I have figured out that I like Y a lot more than X. I want to major in Y. But I took the Y courses intended for nonmajors. I would need to take the courses for majors, and it’s too late for that.”</p>

<p>There are solutions to all of these problems. A student and parents and college advisors can figure out something. Sometimes it only involves working with the academic advising office or getting some tutoring. Sometimes it involves thinking outside the box. (The girl who wanted to change her major took a leave of absence, got a low-level full-time job at the university, and took the courses she needed through the employee degree program. She then came back from her leave, finished her new major, and went on to earn a PhD in that subject.)</p>

<p>You might also hear other things, like “My girlfriend wants me to spend more time with her. But my major is a lot more demanding than hers, and she doesn’t understand that.” Or you might hear, “My grades have been dropping because I’ve been having a lot of headaches lately and I don’t know why.” Or “Now that I’m in a fraternity, I don’t seem to have enough time to study.” Or any one of hundreds of other things.</p>

<p>You’re more likely to hear the truth if the conversation is non-confrontational.</p>

<p>Your son is an adult. He has a problem. Maybe he would like to problem-solve in a non-hostile environment.</p>

13

<p>If you’ve conveyed your view about the girlfriend to him already, that may explain the attitude. How bad is the grade drop?</p>

14

<p>You admit you have been stewing and the is a dangerous combination. So before you sit down (love the 5 min timer idea) write a letter to him and tell him what a dork he is. Scream YELL write in BIG letters. Then rip it up. Get the emotion out of you mind and body and you have much better success.</p>

15

<p>I think the only thing that could be discussed is the grades. How big of a drop are they? Sophomore year of college is a tough year as the kids weed out and they settle into upper level classes. My oldest, now graduated, needed a 3.5 to keep his scholarship. Our conversations generally settled around “how likely are you to be able to keep a 3.5 this semester” and we told him we needed fair warning if he was going to lose it.</p>

16

<p><strong><em>apologize for all the errors on the above message. I was typing on my iphone</em></strong>*</p>

17

<p>A lot of solid advice on this thread. Speaking against the SO usually makes you the bad guy and your DS/DD hang on tighter to the SO, even if deep down they know you are right, so try to avoid that trap.</p>

<p>As to the grades and financial support, we tried to make it all about them, not about us. Any child who had merit award knew that if they did not keep the award due to a GPA drop they would be taking loans to make up that difference, but the basic financial support to obtain a degree was based on satisfactory progress to the degree. If a 2.0 was required by the school, then that was our minimum, too. We did not ask to see grades. We tried to really treat them as adults, supporting a university degree, but letting them decide how well to do it as they were making decisions about their future not our future.</p>

<p>That was not an easy attitude to take and it worked well MOST of the time, but not all of the time. One kid did struggle with school choice, with major choice, with interfering SOs, with life, it was rocky, but I figured no nagging by me was going to change the choices made. Some kids learn by watching other’s mistakes and avoiding them, others must make their own mistakes, difficult as that is for a parent to watch.</p>

<p>If I was going the extra mile and paying $50-60k for a private that might be a different set of rules than a state flagship or the financial equivalent.</p>

18

<p>Thank you all for your advice. In my head I know the GF is off limits, but my heart is finding it difficult to sit back and watch this unfold. She’s a holdover from HS and we thought she was gone but have discovered that she isn’t going to let that happen. My son agrees with many of our concerns about her, but he doesn’t seem to be able to cut the ties. Mostly because he doesn’t want to and she keeps making promises. Whatever. They will both be home on break which is why this problem is going to be the elephant in the room (house) weather we address it or not. My only hope is that the distance between their two schools will eventually end it for them.</p>

<p>As for the grades, I don’t know how far they’ve fallen - only that he is struggling more than usual. He has to keep a 3.5 to maintain his scholarship. Unless he really tanks that shouldn’t be a problem, but his grades have never been an issue until now. I would never threaten to cut him off financailly, we don’t do things that way. I do think we may have made things to easy for him, but we can’t undo that. </p>

<p>I really appreciate all of your good advice - it made me think. I’m not usually one to keep my mouth shut - especially when it comes to my kids. At the very least, I am sure that he knows we love him and I have supported him in every way during this time. Although, I feel like I am giving and getting the back of his hand in return. Not really, but you get the idea. </p>

<p>Whatever, I intend to hang in there and be the best mom I can be knowing that my intentions are good. I have to believe that my parental instincts are at least average, right??</p>

19

<p>You could try being sickeningly nice to the girlfriend. Ask her lots of friendly questions about how she’s getting along in college.</p>

20

<p>You do know you can have text messaging blocked on cell phones. You can also have the phone suspended so it can not be used.</p>