<p>GREAT advice in post 19.</p>
<p>Someone besides the teacher needs to proofread these letters. My d asked an English teacher and a science teacher to do recs ( to try to provide teachers from diverse subject areas). Both gave a copy to counselor to be sent to college and to D. English teacher wrote fantastic rec with many very specific examples. Science teacher rec was glowing, but more generic, and OOPS! in one place forgot to change the name of the outstanding student from the previous year who had obviously received the same rec. Fortunately, her counselor was able to handle this, but I would hate to see an incident like this damage an otherwise outstanding student’s chances.</p>
<p>What if you attend a HS with a high drop out rate and decided preference for only the top feeder state colleges…
our beleaguered teachers did not even send their letters in on time…nor did they admit this to our son, who wrote them thank you notes before Winter Break and brought them each a token little gift…a classical shared interest CD, or a photo frame, a food item. All he had to do was open the software and see that even by New Year’s Day…the letters weren’t there. The GCs did send in letters before Winter Break, but since they had 250 plus kids and little experience with colleges outside of the top two feeders…who knows. The teacher tardiness factor surprised us! Not that many kids applied to 7 colleges…most only to one or two, so sadly this request in October is viewed as a huge chore and imposition and a bit intimidating as the colleges to which he applied were outside their frame of reference.<br>
My son managed I suppose to get decent references but this took “educational efforts” on his part…he did a one page chart of each college, and named “why it could be a great fit” next to each college on the list, and also noted relevant personal observations from visits etc. He also took the trouble to drop by his references after college visits to say a word or two. By winter break, the teachers were somewhat interested and more invested in his success, and knew him better.
Sorry, but I recommend this process if you are uncertain about teacher support. Do not assume teachers have time to look up your colleges and figure out why you want to attend any of them, especially if you have teachers with only regional life experience. He was praised for “doing more prep for the GC than anyone in his grade.” and I think this came across in his references as maturity and focus on his part.
As for the Tardy letters…the committees don’t sit till a bit later in January anyway. Not a serious problem, and when they saw the school demographics I don’t suppose they were shocked.</p>
<p>Good advice in #19. S has not seen his recommendation. Slightly off-topic: His HS is small and you’re likely to have teachers more than once. Teachers tend to know everyone, even the introverts who are outstanding students and excellent college candidates. Students in big high schools who don’t have much of a chance to get to know teachers over the four years would seem to be at a disadvantage when it comes to recommendations.</p>
<p>DS has two letters from teachers at school. One insisted last fall that she would write his :). He confirmed with teachers last spring, though he did change one teacher this fall. Haven’t seen those, though we have all the letters (signed by the teacher on the outside of the envelope) to be mailed with apps. He gave them activity resumes as requested, but also added a little note saying that he hoped they wouldn’t focus so much on his resume, but on him personally, and mentioned what he had particulaly enjoyed about hteir classes. The other letters are by external profs he’s worked with. One of the profs showed DS his letter.</p>
<p>I expect he’ll return unused rec letters to the teachers once all is said and done. Part of me would love to read them – he has come so far in the past few years…</p>
<p>Faline2 makes some great points. Not all kids striving for the more selective schools come from communities used to the process. Sometimes, even schools that seeming should know better can use some scrutiny. In the large nearby urban district, there were two magnet high schools that had high college placement rates, one of which was my alma mater. My school was smaller and regularly placed a half dozen or so Ivy students each year – its program was very rigorous and attracted the city’s best kids. The other one was older and also had lots of prestige. However it was much larger and seemed to have somewhat of a lesser academic reputation. While boasting many AP classes, its ability to have students get 3s or better was not very good. Basically the school looked very good on the outside but wasn’t as well equipped to send its kids to the most selective schools. An Ivy interviewer told me that a telling item for the college was a set of recommendations from the AP English teacher – that were rife with grammatical errors. </p>
<p>I’m not advocating sniffing into teacher’s recommendations but as a parent, use your intuition in your interactions with potential rec writers.</p>
<p>Good luck to each of you and your kids.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s necessary to see the letters as long as you choose your teachers carefully. My son’s GC showed him her letter so he knows that one was glowing. One letter did go missing - I don’t think it was the teacher’s fault as all her other letter arrived well ahead of schedule. She just faxed it to the admissions committee. The teachers he chose were ones that probably don’t get asked a lot - the teacher he had for AP Latin and two other years of Latin as well (all of five in the class) and his AP Physics Teacher that he’d had junior year. He had two outside recs - one from a company that he’d done website programming for and one from a chemist that he’d written a program that was cited in several papers - we saw the latter one later when the guy asked us to edit it for a scholarship recommendation. He felt it needed a slightly different emphasis, but didn’t have the energy to do it himself! It was a lovely letter, though it rather exagerated the project. Hmm.</p>
<p>Choosing the teacher, I’ve found, is the most important factor. Not necessarily the teacher who supports you most, but the teacher who writes good recommendations. My D took two science classes from this highly demanding teacher. At various times he has told me that D “is the best student he has ever seen” and his “teaching carrier would have been incomplete if she didn’t get to teach D.” Guidance counselor warned us that he does not write good recommendations. He wrote, according to him, the best he has ever written for D. He was so happy about it, he gave a copy to D and emailed me a copy. But his letter was most about himself; Said D is a good student, but nothing like one of the best students he saw. It was a weak letter. The guidance counselor was right.</p>
<p>For a slighly different take on things, D had several letters of rec. Some were given to her to see, some were not. Her letters were uniformly glowing. Or should I say glwoing? They all had all little mistakes them that really didn’tchange the “One of the finest student’s in my 22 year carrier”. </p>
<p>D decided to leave them intact. I just know that at some point the adcom knew 1.) She didn’t write them and 2.) If she had an objective record on tests and AP’s like she had coming from this illiterate burg she must be pretty smart and self-motivated, too. </p>
<p>Hey, it worked. What can I say?</p>
<p>Curmudgeon,
Cute story, and good to know things worked out well for your d. The one my d saw (which was very, very nice) included a mention of “raving reviews” she had received. I have to think this sort of thing won’t hurt kids too much.</p>
<p>I think I see the beginnings of a chapter in a book on college admissions entitled “Wrecommedendations.”</p>
<p>LOL on “Wrecommendations”!!</p>
<p>If a school asks for 2 recs, should you have 3 sent in case someone drops the ball? I was just thinking of a drama teacher that S had for an outside class. I’m sure she could write him a great letter, but she is <em>majorly</em> disorganized and a huge procrastinator. (Creative theatre people…no surprise there) 
S ended up instructing a class under her leadership, so he experienced this often. I feel like he just can’t ask her for a rec because there is too much chance she won’t get to it.</p>
<p>So, obviously it’s a good idea to not choose recommenders who you think aren’t reliable to get the letter sent in, but sometimes someone you think will be fine…isn’t. Again, I’m not talking about recs which the school is sending in. So, should you send an extra just in case?</p>
<p>I’ve checked in with schools and the recommendations are getting there fine - D asked early to avoid the rush. Now if I could light a fire under College Board to get the SAT scores out, I’d be happy.</p>
<p>I always assumed that the rec would seem more unbiased if the student waived his/her right to read it. Sure you take a chance, but this should be the teacher’s honest opinion. Brief anecdote Bethievt might appreciate, my son requested a rec from one of his teachers when he was running for office but ultimately didn’t have to use it, so the letter still sits unopened in his drawer. I, of course, having more flexible morals was, like, don’t you want to know what he said? But my son woudn’t open the letter since it was addressed to the organization and sealed.</p>
<p>teachers and counselers have told me that when a student does not waive his or her right to access the recomendations, it makes them look unconfident and unsure AKA it hinders the student’s chances </p>
<p>this is just from what I have heard</p>
<p>I was just having these thoughts yesterday as I was talking to my chem teacher who is writing my recs.
I would love to see them but understand why colleges want me to waive the right etc. My only concern is that if I give my teacher the envelope, he may forget it, lose it, it may get lost in the mail… I would feel much better mailing them myself but I can’t exactly go up to him and say “so hand 'em over when you’re done thanks”
GC said if chem teacher is ok with it, I may pick up my recs in an envelope and bring them to GC to send in 1 envelope w/ transcripts etc. Then it is my sole responsibility to mail everything. But im ok with that; at least I’d know I mailed them on time…</p>
<p>I beleive the student has a right to see what the teacher is writing about him or her. I had my daughter ask a biased male foreign teacher for a rec. only to force him to do it. I know that sounds horrible but this man repeatedly stated that boys were smarter and stronger than girls and better in science. You might think I amwrong, but I am not I work in the school and have heard it not only from my own kids but many others. This man who holds a doctorate by the way wrote a terrible rec. His grammer and spelling were horrilbe(I know mine isn’t great either lol) My daughter got all a’s in his class and ranked 5th in the school. I saved it because someday I am going to forward it to our super. I never used it. That would be embarassing to him and my daughter. You should always have the right to see it before it is mailed out. Be careful who you ask.</p>
<p>Or heck with it all and just apply to UCLA. With 70,000 applications to read (most in the nation), they forbid you to send them any letters of recommendation. Also they create a Nov. 1 deadline for everything and tell you in Spring, like everyone else. </p>
<p>Yet somehow UCLA manages not to admit a class cohort full of axe murderers.</p>
<p>I’ll say it again: if you don’t trust the person writing the rec enough to write something glowing about you, pick someone else. A student should not have to see the rec in advance if the teacher is selected carefully. Basically, you should pretty much know what the teacher would say about you!</p>
<p>Debbym, that’s quite an interesting story and I agree: be careful whom you ask! Sadly, sometimes a teacher can sabotage a student with a big, wide smile so at least you knew the measure of this man whose letter you (wisely) DIDN’t send.</p>
<p>A cousin of mine finished his PhD and had two letters from key academicians he had worked with. Unexplainably, he couldn’t get even the lowliest teaching post a year after he achieved the PhD. He was from another country, and a very trusting individual. Finally, in despair he called one of the advisors and asked HIM to look over his entire application and tell him what was going wrong. </p>
<p>Sure enough, the other recommendor had written a complete sabotage letter. His prof challenged his colleague, (why did you write such a letter?) and heard that the other prof was promoting his own mentee whom he had groomed. My cousin, being only second on his list of concern, shouldn’t take away any job opportunity from his prized mentee. </p>
<p>The better recommender contacted my cousin and said he should never, ever use that other letter. After a few months, he did get a teaching position, but a year later than he should have and not the best colleges, either. He had to explain why he hadn’t gotten hired a full year after earning a PhD. </p>
<p>So that prof was a complete snake, including that he always represented to my cousin that he had written a “strong letter.” Yes, strong like poison.</p>
<p>Fortunately h.s. students have MANY teachers to choose among, so use that opportunity as best you can. Also, I feel that in h.s. if a teacher is dragging his/her feet and running close to deadline, it might be worth wondering if they are about to write a poor letter, so at that point ask, “Would you rather I find a different recommender?” Only do that if you have someone waiting in the wings, agreeing to do it if you need it…</p>