<p>Our son’s hs had a wonderful LofR system. The teachers did not send them to the college but forwarded them to the guidance office. The student’s guidance counselor then choose which letters to submit to each college. This also helped out the teachers, because they only had to write one letter for each student, not one for each college applied to. While the students did waive the right to see the letters, guidance counselors were able to tell students which seemed to be the best ones to submit. Our son was told that the letter from his StatsAP teacher would be sent out with every application because it was that good a letter.</p>
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<p>Thank you for being one of the only voices of reason in this thread.</p>
<p>This excuse about not knowing whether letters were sent is terrible. If you really want to make sure that it gets there, give your teacher/professor a pre-paid FedEx airbill and an envelope or ask early and check with the college.</p>
<p>For the record, I have never seen a letter of recommendation I requested. I’ve done just fine.</p>
<p>The schools will tell you if letters (or anything else) is missing from your files.</p>
<p>When my son was discussing with his GC whether it would be better to get a recommendation from his APUSH teacher or his Latin teacher, we did discuss the possibility of the GC looking at both letters. In the end we didn’t go that route. Mathson got A’s in history, but he got B’s on the two papers - and the last one especially was done in a hurry. Even though I think the subject taught is more helpful (this kid can synthasize info and write well), we felt sure that the teacher could give only a very good not a great recommendation.</p>
<p>When d gave the envelopes to her teacher for his recommendation, she put into each envelope a self-addressed (to her) stamped postcard. On the back it read “Recieved: recommendation from Mr. X. College Y”. Every college date-stamped the postcard and dropped it in the mail. We had our record.</p>
<p>Of course, if you do this, make sure that you put the right postcard in the right envelope! I (yes, I, not daughter) triple-checked this one. You don’t want College Y stamping the postcard that was meant for College Z!</p>
<p>I love the advice of having a good GC read the letters and eliminate one if it is the kiss of death. I have been amazed at how some people can mean well but write the WORST letters. One supervisor felt it was his ethical need to include at least one weakness. My rm/mt had cried in a meeting with him about a personal crisis. In 3 years, she had always been a good student. This prof would share his personal problems, but when she was too human, he went on for several paragraphs about her weakness. Needless to say, I didn’t wait to see what he wrote about me, and ran to get another letter.</p>
<p>My S had a prof at local college offer to write him a supporting letter. He shared wonderful comments about S, but the actual letter was stiff & impersonal.</p>
<p>LOL, 9 years ago (I don’t know if they still do this), Brandeis University sent out a card to the PARENTS after receiving the application that said, “We know you have wonderful things you’d like to tell us about your child; please go ahead!” Who knows how they factored that into their admissions process, but isn’t that wild? An invitation to kvel (beam) about your own child. I was impressed and amused. It was great PR, at the very least.</p>
<p>I can’t remember if I needed extra stamps ;)</p>
<p>to waive their right to see the letters, and the teachers bring them down to the Guidance Dept, and Guidance mails them out with everything else.</p>
<p>I am hoping they don’t forget to mail anything!</p>
<p>There was a thread last year on this topic (which I’ve been unable to locate) which, if I remember correctly, concluded that it made no difference to admissions officers whether students waived their rights to see letters or not. My D took this to heart and did NOT waive her right. She was pretty successful in the application process and was accepted among others to two “top 10” schools so I don’t think it matters one way or the other. Typically, teachers gave her a copy of the LOR and I think this is a courtesy - if I’m asked to write a letter for someone I always give them a copy - if I were to be uncomfortable with them seeing the letter I wouldn’t write one for them. I would also agree with posts that argue caution with some teachers despite their glowing words to your face. Not everyone writes well or puts much time into their recs. I guess I’m just less trusting than some of y’all :)</p>
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<p>But the college is trying to decide whether to admit the kid, not whether to admit the letter-writer. </p>
<p>On a related note: What about peer recommendations? I’ve never quite understood what colleges are hoping to learn from those. The schools that both my sons wound up attending wanted a peer recommendation. It seems to me that if you can’t get a friend to write you a good rec, it’s pretty hopeless. What in the world could be in a peer rec that would differentiate different students?</p>
<p>That’s the first I’ve heard of peer recommendation! I can imagine it for a small LAC that depends a lot on the “community of learners” creating many of the activities and resources for each other, both in classroom settings and for mutual entertainment socially. </p>
<p>I’d try to read them looking for this: ON WHAT BASIS is the other kid admired: the leader, the one with out-there ideas, the good active listener, the helpful one who includes others on the margins, and so on. Other students probably know better than teachers how their peers function in small group projects and team assignments. </p>
<p>If the college is committed to the principle that “it takes all kinds to make up a cohort of classmates” then it could be valuable information about an applicant where students know better than teachers.</p>
<p>Like all recommendations, I’d assume a student chose someone who likes and admires them, but then I’d want to know WHY, on what basis, is this student appreciated.</p>
<p>I have more trouble understanding its relevance on a campus with 25,000 students, except perhaps to the residential life advisor matching roommates, which comes later and doesn’t need to concern the admissions decision. Bottom line: there are always single rooms.</p>
<p>As a teacher, I know I always did much better when interviewed by a principal or superintendent, and can’t stand the new “colleague pre-approval” interviews that are all the rage now. Even though I recognize teachers work in teams, I dislike peer evaluation by strangers; too much “group think.” If someone knows me and has worked with me, then I think they have a lot to say about my working style that my boss can’t know. So perhaps that’s analogous to h.s. students writing about each other. By extension, then, I’d hate to see teams of college kids “peer=reviewing” prospective students for their own campus. </p>
<p>Often h.s. teachers comment on their recs: “he has the respect of his peers” so perhaps a “peer review” explores that further; WHY are they respected. I’m never comfortable when a teacher writes a student is “popular” because I think that’s just a social comment. The college might legitimately want to know how an individual interacts academically in small teams, not how many friends a person attracts.
Teamwork, collaboration, interaction are all important in the 21st century workplace, so it’s relevant.
I’m laughing imagining some kid writing, “he’s such a brilliant lab partner that I don’t even mind cleaning up after him.”</p>
<p>Having thought about this overnight, and having read Paying3tuition’s response, I’ll answer my own question now.</p>
<p>I had the advantage of seeing both peer recs that my sons had written about them. </p>
<p>In the first, for my older son, the friend focused on how my son helped him with some unique, miserable family dysfunction and basically was “there” for him. The fact that they had been good friends since they were 3 years old was a nice touch, too. I’m assuming that differentiated my son, as it dealt with some completely out-of-school issues and with the type of person my son is.</p>
<p>On my younger son’s peer rec, it was more focused on his intelligence, creativity, out-of-the-box thinking. The friend who wrote this basically reitierated what (I think) the teachers wrote about him (I never actually saw the teacher recs).</p>
<p>I guess it helps in showing the real personality of the kid. I guess.</p>
<p>Anyone else??</p>
<p>I have a thought about how to handle the waiver/non-waiver issue and would like to see if you think it is sensible.</p>
<p>My son will be applying to college next year – he’s a senior but is planning a gap year to, among other things, finish a novel and try to get it published (one publisher has expressed interest after reading the first chapter so it is not a total pipe dream). Given the delay in applying, he hasn’t yet had to deal with recommendations. His school will only let him ask two teachers total for all of the applications and strongly encourages the kids to waive the right to see the applications. He’s a little bit of a special case because he is both gifted (good at abstract reasoning in all subjects including math and science, good at literary analysis, talented at painting and drawing) and really dyslexic [when applying for SAT accommodations, the head of Special Ed wrote that he was the most intelligent and most disabled kid she’d come across in 15 years of serving as the HS’s liaison to the College Board]. So, he doesn’t take a foreign language or has done partial homeschooling to accelerate math and work harder on writing (instead of English last spring, he took an expository writing class at Harvard Summer School) but takes Honors/AP Science, AP Art and Social Studies in school. Too much reading/writing fatigue him and he has missed 20 to 30 days each year with illness. Despite this, except for one class freshman year in which he got an A-, he is always the highest ranked student or one of two in each class he takes at the HS. His Con Law teacher last spring told him she was saving his exam for last because she would need inspiration. So far high standardized test scores. I talk with each teacher at the beginning of every year to let them know what to expect – i.e., will get the concepts easily and quickly, doesn’t need to do repetitive problems or regurgitation, will get really fatigued if he does too much reading/writing, and here are the accommodations/modifications that make it easy for him to learn and show you he has mastered the material. And, I stay in touch with them via email during the year.</p>
<p>We haven’t worked on picking schools yet, but I think he will be frustrated if he doesn’t go to a school where the kids are as bright as he is (and also one where he can customize his curriculum a lot so that he can manage the amount of reading/writing). I would like to select among the teachers for stunning recommendations (e.g., “he’s the best or among the best students I’ve ever had” if it is true). I am happy to have the teachers write without my son’s (or my) ability to review. But, I wondered if I could ask them the following: “My son will as you know be applying to college next year. He got an A+ or A in your class and was thinking of asking you to write a recommendation. My sense is that given his somewhat unusual high school career, he’s going to need superlative recommendations (e.g., ones that say ‘he’s among the best students I’ve ever had’ or ‘is the kind of student who comes along only once every X years.’) I don’t want to ask you to write anything you don’t think is true, but if you could tell me if you would be writing a superlative letter, it would help Eric pick which teachers to ask for a recommendation. Again, I don’t want to put any words in your mouth but just want to get a sense of what kind of recommendation you would write.”</p>
<p>I don’t know what the teachers really think of him (though I have some evidence from his Honors Chemistry teacher who wrote very positive words about him when explaining why he deserved accommodations and very positive words generally from his teachers) and would like to get a pre-screening before he asks (and I also think he may need the superlatives given his non-standard profile and approach). Do you think this strategy would work or backfire?</p>
<p>Someone may have already mentioned this, but most schools require that both recommendations come from a teacher who has taught the student in an ACADEMIC subject. </p>
<p>My S also has glowing letters (which we’ve seen) from a music teacher and a coach, which we will send as “supplementary materials”, but the letters being sent as Teacher Recommendations are the unseen ones written by actual teachers.</p>
<p>Am I naive to think that a teacher would agree to write a letter of recommendation for a student and then write something that would compromise or sabotage the student’s chances for admission?</p>
<p>I think it’s worthwhile for a student to ask “Do you feel like you could write me a positive recommendation?” If the teacher doesn’t sound enthusiastic the student should accept that and keep looking for a recommender. I don’t think most teachers want to go out of their way to sink a student’s chances. Kids can help teachers by asking early and providing a cover letter recapping a few high points.</p>
<p>Shawbridge - while I understand your concerns, but re-read your own post and I think you will find your own answers. You said your son is an extraordinarily talented writer. With these skills, shouldn’t HE be composing a letter to teachers describing his dilemma, his needs, his strengths, his ability to contribute to a school? He can best convey the importance of thes letters. He should be able to write to them and then find out if they feel they can write an appropriate letter of recommendation.</p>
<p>As much as you would like to be involved, he will be a young adult when he chooses someone to write a letter for him. You have to trust him to be able to set this in motion. Read other threads from parents once their kids are in school - you will really be on the sidelines once he is in school - start practicing now.</p>
<p>Agree with MD_Mom and worknprogress. I helped my son with lots of administrative details during the admissions process, but asking for a letter of rec. is about the relationship between your child and his teachers.</p>
<p>. . . . but asking for a letter of rec. is about the relationship between your child and his teachers.</p>
<p>Absolutely but my D’s references sure did appreciate the neatly printed labels, organized envelopes and adequate postage. I definitely had a hand in that part.</p>
<p>Shawbridge, what would happen if you took the zeal and drive you have for your son’s process and rechanneled it into coaching him on how to approach his teachers? When I read your draft letter, I got a bad feeling in my stomach, thinking, “why am I reading this from his mommy?”
I think you could teach your son to gather the answer you need. For example, you could role-play with your S at home to go up to teachers and ask them, verbally and in a moment, something like this: “You gave me an A; thanks again. But I have a quirky record across-the-board here at school, and many talents. I think I’m going to need great, not just good, teacher recommendations. If I had to choose between you and another teacher, should I ask you to write my letter?” </p>
<p>I think the teachers who don’t quite “get” him will say, “Choose someone else” and as long as he doesn’t give up (your coaching role from home, to keep up his spirits and learn to handle some mini-rejections along the way) he’ll eventually hear a teacher say, “Sure, I’ll write you a letter.” (like when parents on CC say to a kid wanting essay help, “Sure, PM me.” Others hope someone else will do it.) </p>
<p>Anyway, that’s the teacher you want, and you don’t have to swamp them with ethically questionable verbiage in your letter, which is also on record and in writing. As a teacher, I’d be uncomfortable to ahve such a letter in my file drawer! I know you tried hard not to put words in their mouth but you can’t ask for a “superlative” letter because that’s your word.</p>
<p>If he can’t quite face up to teachers this way (understandable, he’s young yet), then he could go to his GC and present the situation and get her advice.
Every school has a different culture. The GC might also have read many letters and knows who writes strongly and well, or who “gets” the quirky kids vs. who resents them.</p>
<p>BTW, how do you know he’d be happier where “the kids are as bright as he is.” I understand bright kids are reassured to meet other bright kids, especially others with gappy presentations. Still, how many kids have to be bright around him for him to feel happy? Maybe he’d feel happy to be near the top of the class not the middle. Have you asked him about this? </p>
<p>I wondered if my S’s university wouldn’t be “up” to his intellect but how could I complain when their GPA and SAT median echoed his own? I asked him and he was very clear, “It’ll be just like high school. I make friends with every kind of kid. It’ll be like h.s. except I’ll be in some classes I like. I’ll always have plenty of friends.”</p>
<p>Thanks for the feedback. I generally agree that by his age kids should advocate for themselves and he generally does that (this year, the only thing I’ve done is to have an initial meeting). You may be right and I am going to reconsider the plan.</p>
<p>Just to be clear, I wasn’t planning to ask for the letter. My son would do that. I was just creating a pre-screening mechanism. Is that too technical a distinction from your standpoint bethievt, MD_Mom and worknprogress?</p>
<p>I doubt that my son could or should ask the same question I could nor would he have the capacity to judge where he stands. I had a related experience once. I asked one of the members of my Ph.D. thesis committee, a great man of American academia, to write a recommendation on my behalf for a post-doc and then a year later for a professorial job. The first time he wrote the letter. The next year, he asked me to draft a letter that he’d sign. Although I got the job I wanted, I learned that my letter had hurt me and engendered a big political fight in my department. His letter apparently said I was a genius (not true and never was although I know he was extremely impressed by some pretty surprising research I did as an undergraduate) and played up my undergraduate thesis, which had been published in the most prestigious journal in my field. My letter was much more circumspect and focused on my graduate thesis. The department that saw both was concerned that I had declined so much in the his esteem in one year. I wouldn’t have thought to say I was a genius or anything even close. I would never have been able to ask him if he was planning to write a superlative letter.</p>
<p>In my son’s case, he recognizes his intellectual strength relative to his classmates but I, as a former undergrad, grad student and professor at three of the HYPS, am likely to have a clearer grasp of his potential relative to a more competitive population. worknprogress, given his dyslexia, his writing is his weakest link (ignoring foreign language and music, in which he is startlingly weak) although it has improved dramatically with lots of work on his part. So, he could easily write a letter to his teachers (and I could assist as needed). But, we would have to forgo the pre-screening as I don’t think he could or should ask the question about whether they are going to give him a superlative recommendation. I take it that your sense is that in the grand scheme of things, it is better to forgo the pre-screening.</p>
<p>I don’t think parents should be involved in the recommendation process at all.</p>
<p>I would skip the pre-screening altogether. I just don’t think teachers would appreciate being this micromanaged (I know I wouldn’t). </p>
<p>Your son’s strengths will shine on their own.</p>