<p>Most street cops know the bad guys pretty well. It’s never the first time at the party for them.</p>
<p>What I don’t understand is this…If Atwater was a felon convicted of violating terms of his probation in June of 2007, why was he not immediately locked up? In Texas, my understanding is if they bring you in for probation or parole violation and you are convicted, you immediately get into an orange jumpsuit and head to jail…you don’t go home for 9 months while authorities do paperwork. To me, this is one identifiable thing that needs to change immediately.</p>
<p>^^^It does seem hard to believe.</p>
<p>Yes, I’m sure they were pursuing all avenues. The Chapel Hill police said early on that they were confident they had not left the state, so they had all law enforcement agencies nearby (and all across the state) working with them, as well as the SBI and the FBI. Clearly, they had someone in jail already for the Duke student’s death, but he never implicated either of them. They did catch these 2 guys within one week of Eve’s murder. They received a tip called into Crimestoppers. That $25K reward that the UNC Board of Trustees put up ultimately helped them tremendously, I’m sure.</p>
<p>There are a lot of “if only” scenarios in this case. If only either of these guys had not been out on parole, left free to roam the streets; if only the guy already in jail had given up their names; if only Atwater had been sentenced in that court on March 3 and put back in jail; if only Eve had gone out with her friends that night instead of staying home . . . just so many ways this could have gone differently. I’m sure a lot of people now play this over in their minds hourly. It’s all very sad.</p>
<p>Tyr, I didn’t realize that had thousands of criminals in that age range fitting that physical description to go through. I mean even the probation officer should have recognized the photo. It seemed like they were asking the public for a couple of day who these guys were. Obviously I don’t have the whole story but still it would seem like those who just dealt with them in court alone would have recognized the photos.</p>
<p>The “if onlys” are tough. Because in this case, it’s pretty clear, they’re true. I am not entirely sure whom to support locally to get things running the right way, but some things have to be done. I think, to start, there must be some recognition of the depth and breadth of the problem and then some move to get the proper levels of support. Then, I think certain sensibilities must be tossed in favor of recognizing where the local problems are in order to figure out how to fix them…</p>
<p>ldmom: Just saw your post. Yes, I think he was convicted of felony breaking and entering. That he was out of jail is stunning to me. The court case on March 3 was also for breaking and entering-- but he got to reschedule that because of a clerical error? He should have been thrown in jail as soon as he was arrested for that crime and not been allowed to leave. Again, I think they’re so overcrowded, they just let these violent criminals out to roam the streets.</p>
<p>I may be wrong, but I really do believe that as long as these crimes stay in Durham, people around here (in NC) just figure that’s Durham and that’s par for the course. They really pay no attention. And by the way, UNC students were told of the Duke graduate student’s murder and these other crimes in Durham; again, I don’t think it even registered with them. Honestly, if we seriously considered every crime (including homicides) that daily occurs in Durham, we’d never leave our homes, and students would never leave their dorms. Now that this horrific event has happened in Chapel Hill-- if nothing else, perhaps it will be a catalyst for change.</p>
<p>soozievt: Yes, but the cops still have to know <em>where</em> to find them. Someone in the police dept may have recognized who they were, but that solves only part of the problem. It’s not as though they can identify them and then “Google” their address, and go to their homes. These people don’t live like we do; they probably don’t even have homes. So the cops have to know where they’re hiding. It was only through the tip they received that led them to where these guys were hiding.</p>
<p>Indeed janie. And it is possible CHPD and other agencies may have had an idea who they were looking for but needed tips to locate them. </p>
<p>A number of years ago, a neighbor and good friend lost her daughter in a terrible car accident. She was a senior engineering student at Texas A&M and a wonderful, brilliant girl. She and her boyfriend were hit by an oncoming 18 wheeler on a two lane road…the truck had abruptly stopped and the brakes on the trailer failed causing it to jack-knife and slide sideways down both sides of the road into oncoming traffic. </p>
<p>It was eventually found the truck had been ticketed or tagged in Louisiana and Mississippi for bad brakes and was not supposed to be on the road. So as you can imagine, the ‘what if’ scenarios were agonizing to all. After my friend was able to pull herself out of bed (it took a year), she took on a the huge battle of reforming lax interstate 18-wheeler safety/inspection laws and practices. It is still an ongoing battle, exacerbated by NAFTA, but aided by another tragedy, 9-11. She still travels quite frequently to Austin to gripe out, I mean testify in front of ;), lawmakers about making our freeways safer.</p>
<p>I hope no one forgets Eve Carson or Abhijit Mahato when it comes time to reform laws regarding parole and probation violation. I have confidence the good people of NC will demand change.</p>
<p>(sorry crossposted with janie)</p>
<p>soozievt, I have no idea how many files that they have, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the number in the triangle area is not pretty significant. My point is that is not as simple as it might seem to isolate a person when all you have is a picture and general description. Of course, it is possible that they had a good idea of who they were, but did not know where they were and that this was the information they really wanted. The police really have not disclosed a lot of information, and justifiably so. Given the limited information they had in the beginning, I think they have done a commendable job, at least if they have the right people.</p>
<p>Agreed, DukeEgr. From all I’ve read, the Durham police dept has put considerable manpower and funds into working on these problems in Durham. As I said, they have specific units (at least 2) that do nothing but concentrate on the gangs in Durham. I’m sure it’s an almost impossible task.</p>
<p>And, yes, as ldmom stated, I think that Eve’s murder could have been prevented if the laws had been tighter on conviction and parole with these 2 guys. I don’t know for sure, but Lovett is only 17, so it’s quite possible that he has never been tried as an adult for his past crimes; if so, he was always going to be out on parole of some sort.</p>
<p>try: I agree. I think they really did a commendable job; they followed all the rules, and the Chapel Hill police chief has been very smart in al of this. He did not release a lot of information to the media, nor did he answer any questions that might harm this case. I actually think they did a pretty stellar job here.</p>
<p>The real problem is having these 2 out roaming the streets with guns. The bigger problem, as stated before, is how to reach them before they ever get close to committing any crime.</p>
<p>Just watched our local news and was so disheartened. In Charlotte, a known gang member was found not-guilty of shooting and killing someone in broad daylight. This culminates 16 months of work by police. The new anchors seemed shocked by the verdict. I hadn’t followed story, so don’t know the details–but I wonder what the “what ifs” might be in the future with this thug back out on the streets.</p>
<p>janie - don’t you think that’s horribly short-sighted, that the rest of NC kind of writes off Durham? I agree that this link between a Durham murder and a Chap Hill murder will perhaps unit communities to figure out how to put resources into place that eliminate the problems.</p>
<p>ldmom - I, sadly, have less confidence than you. I am truly afraid of the kinds of spin that are already coming into play from the local media (Linda Williams and Barry Saunders at the N&O) and local activists (God love Victoria Peterson, because relatively few others can) are starting the “killer as the real victim” story out there…</p>
<p>janie - Durham’s gang units have had some limited success - but we have to figure out as a community how to help them get more… Part of it will be economic empowerment, and part will be community standards. It’s going to take both time and vigilance. Durham is worth saving - it truly is - but before we can it is worth being honest about.</p>
<p>DukeEgr: Yes, I agree. Read some of my past posts.</p>
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<p>Absolutely-- yes, I do think it’s “horribly short-sighted.” I also think it’s not smart for any of us to ignore what goes on in Durham. The attitude, though, is not so much “writing off Durham,” as it is pretending that it can’t happen to us-- that’s only in Durham. It was only a matter of time before this happened elsewhere. The “rest of NC” also includes area university students. They also need to start paying attention to these alerts and warnings and what goes on in Durham. </p>
<p>Again, what consistently occurs in Durham has now made a palpable presence in Chapel Hill, so I think people are now going to start taking this much more seriously.</p>
<p>janie - I promise that what I wrote was not meant to be antagonistic but rather sympathetic. And I have certainly read your past posts and agree mostly with your assessment of Durham - though I will admit to feeling they are a <em>bit</em> hyperbolic with respect to daily homicide reports.</p>
<p>But I do think - as you do - that, sometimes, there is a sense in NC that “what happens in Durham stays in Durham” with respect to crime. Sadly, that is now very clearly not true. And we in NC have to figure out how to change that and make sure the Durham city and county authorities take the steps required to make Durham safe, and by extension, the surrounding communities safer.</p>
<p>I agree that the police and others involved did a great job in arresting these individuals so quickly. (the quandry was more to do with how they were on the streets before the murders)</p>
<p>As far as the photo releases, I guess I was only thinking they were looking for the public’s help in IDing the men in the photos (as that was what the news said) but you are right that they may have known the ID but were looking for help in locating these guys.</p>
<p>S just attended the wedding of his undergrad roommate, cousin, in India. Big Wedding. I wonder if the talk of his hosts and his Indian coworkers are about Crime in America. These students who come to America for higher education are the cream of their society.</p>
<p>Along the theme of bright lights and budding stars extinguished by the parolees with violations – last summer in Connecticut, a mother and her two daughters were murdered and the father badly beaten by two parolees who had met in prison. The older daughter was a recent graduate of Miss Porter’s and was headed to Dartmouth. Haley Petit, while younger than Eve, was another of those young women with the potential to change the world for the better. </p>
<p>If only our corrections system actually corrected.</p>
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<p>DukeEgr: I know what I write about Durham must sound a “bit hyperbolic,” but I get my news from the nightly local newscasts (Durham station) and from the N&O. I read that paper every morning. Check it out sometime. I honestly do not think a day goes by that there isn’t some report of a drive-by shooting or other violent crime in Durham. If a day does go by without that being reported, those particular days are very few and far between. Honestly, though, I seriously cannot remember a day when violent crime in Durham has not been reported in that paper. </p>
<p>I am also a person who likes many things about Durham; sadly, though, the crime frightens most people away.</p>
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<p>As I’ve posted before, this country has more people in prison than any other in the world. We let them go, because the prisons are over-crowded, and it’s outrageously expensive to house them. The guys you mention and Lovett and Atwater should haver never been paroled.</p>
<p>Frankly, I think many of these criminals are way beyond rehabilitation-- even before they murder. I don’t believe for one minute that Atwater and Lovett can be rehabilitated, nor do they deserve to live out their lives in a prison (shelter, TV, and 3 square meals a day?)-- not on my tax dollars-- not if I can help it. The death penalty will do quite well for them. I also think we need to end this 10 years+ on death row tradition, appeals, etc., and execute as soon as the trial is over. Heck, don’t even transport them to the prison; just do it in the courtroom as soon as they’re convicted. Makes sense to me. Seems fair, and would save a ton of time and money.</p>
<p>cnp55: I just read the story of the Petit family-- also very, very sad. I had not read about that before. Their killers, also on parole.</p>