<p>I am pretty sure that there will be no carrying privileges on campus at UNC, regardless of licensure laws. Campuses are VERY restrictive about this issue, and the penalties are very harsh.</p>
<p>^^^I’m sure you are right about on campuses. Son’s concern is more at his apartment or out in car. I’m not buying his arguments mind you. It’s my (perhaps naive) opinion that people who didn’t grow up in a gun atmosphere and don’t handle/train regularly (like police and military) probably would hesitate or take so long to release trigger lock, load the unloaded weapon, or retrieve it from its secure lock box—the protection point would be moot.</p>
<p>I will relate a recent story from our local news. An elderly man and his wife heard noise at the back door of their home. The man instructed his wife to exit the front and go to a neighbor’s house. The man (a WWII veteran) with gun in hand went to back room of house to investigate. A man threw a planter through a glass door and entered the house. The elderly man warned him to stop, told him that he was armed–but the intruder advanced upon him. The homeowner shot the intruder—who was later found to have committed several home invasion type robberies.</p>
<p>mkm56: I actually posted a week ago-- on another thread (political) the research/statistics on guns and how much worse it is to have them, even when it is the non-criminal element who owns them. You can do a search on my past posts to find it if you want, and show it to your son.</p>
<p>I also mentioned on that particular post that I now know, either very directly (someone I personally knew well) or indirectly (through my siblings, parents, children, or close friends) 5 people who have been murdered with guns in my lifetime, and I’m not that old. This does not count a good friend of mine whose son, at 13, was accidentally killed in his own home by a hunting rifle left out (and loaded) in the house. Guns are a serious problem in this country, and no one (politicians) will take on this problem or the NRA/gun lobbyists.</p>
<p>I would take heart in the fact that he is asking to take the class, and presumably he will heed your wisdom and non-blessing on this idea. I fear others will not be so wise. Yet another reason why it is a wonderful thing that these thugs are under lock and key. Kudos to the CH police for keeping it under wraps about the ballistics which linked this 17 year old to both murders, assuming that was the key. It is excellent that the tight investigation led to successful arrests with no more injuries or fatalities.</p>
<p>Its pretty hard to judge motivation, although it may be fair to speculate that someone had some disorder that “drove him” to harming others. </p>
<p>I read a book several summers ago on the Dartmouth murders of '01 that was extraordinarily disturbing, with two average seeming teens killing two middle aged adults with knives. At the end of it, it seemed that the leader of the perpetrators probably was motivated by a chance to kill more than he was by anything else, because most of their thinking and actions were irrational unless viewed with that as the ultimate end. The accomplice was just a morally weak dupe. The frightening thing in that case was that, while there were a few advance signs of abnormality, nothing in their prior behaviour would have caused anyone to suspect them. </p>
<p>[Amazon.com:</a> Judgment Ridge: The True Story Behind the Dartmouth Murders: Dick Lehr,Mitchell Zuckoff: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Judgment-Ridge-Behind-Dartmouth-Murders/dp/006000844X]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Judgment-Ridge-Behind-Dartmouth-Murders/dp/006000844X)</p>
<p>I think in these recent cases, someone with a gun would probably be shot anyway, unless he was willing to be absolutely ruthless in employing it. Its a bit different to be one-on-one with the perpetrator(s) than it is to be one of many at the scene of some nut case shooter like VT or others. In the latter you have a chance to gauge the assailants danger, and to not be his sole focus. In both cases in NC, the victims literally were given no chance. The criminals would simply end up with an extra gun.</p>
<p>Thanks Janie, I’ll look up your post.</p>
<p>Lorelei, it is good that he is asking for the class. He swears that he would never purchase a gun w/o being competently instructed. My hope is that with all the busyness of finishing up semester, he won’t have time to research out when and where classes are. By the time the semester is over, hopefully some of this initial reaction will have calmed down.</p>
<p>I was talking with him after the recent news and mentioned that some people were saying more police presence is needed in Chapel Hill. His response was that there is a tremendous presence in Chapel Hill, both on campus and off. He has also witnessed the police breaking up rowdy groups outside bars or on Franklin post games. His impression is that the police handle things very, very well there and do a good job of walking that fine line between trying to keep citizens safe and allowing students freedom to cut loose a little.</p>
<p>I hope those of you who are North Carolina residents will write or call your governor and/or state legislator. Even Durham news reports wrote of a crime spree in Durham in January before the murder of Duke PhD student Mahato. The week Mahato was murdered a Duke senior wrote of fearing for his life:</p>
<p>[Welcome</a> to the neighborhood - Columns](<a href=“http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/01/18/Columns/Welcome.To.The.Neighborhood-3158354.shtml]Welcome”>http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/01/18/Columns/Welcome.To.The.Neighborhood-3158354.shtml)</p>
<p>I don’t know if it is a Durham problem or a Triangle problem. Those of you who live in the area do know. Please take whatever steps necessary to eliminate violent crime in this area - if Durham needs more funds or police to handle its criminal element make certain it happens. </p>
<p>Maybe the UNC Board of Regents has influence with the governor and community and can call for action. I am just sick that Mahato’s murderer was free for almost a month and a half and ended the promising life of Eve Carson. It should not have happened.</p>
<p>Just try these guys in Virginia–they know what to do.</p>
<p>[Jury:</a> Death for Morva | Lynchburg News & Advance](<a href=“http://www.newsadvance.com/lna/news/local/article/jury_reconvening_today_to_decide_morva_sentence/2745/]Jury:”>http://www.newsadvance.com/lna/news/local/article/jury_reconvening_today_to_decide_morva_sentence/2745/)</p>
<p>State schools cannot overrule state laws. If concealed carry is legal in NC there is no way UNC could outlaw it as it is a creature of the state law.</p>
<p>Unbelievable. Demario Atwater was in court for probation violation two days before Eve’s killing. But he was allowed to leave with a rescheduled hearing because of a clerical error that caused his file to be sent to a wrong courtroom. </p>
<p>[Murder</a> Suspect Was in Court 2 Days Before Carson’s Death :: WRAL.com](<a href=“Murder Suspect Was in Court 2 Days Before Carson's Death”>Murder Suspect Was in Court 2 Days Before Carson's Death)</p>
<p>newsobserver is reporting an investigation re: failure to revoke probation. For God’s sake, if they had just served this kid on the probation violation back in November, both students may have been spared.</p>
<p>[newsobserver.com</a> | Suspects probation oversight questioned](<a href=“http://www.newsobserver.com/2811/story/998319.html]newsobserver.com”>http://www.newsobserver.com/2811/story/998319.html)</p>
<p>“Robert Lee Guy, director of the Division of Community Corrections, said he was concerned about why it had taken since June 2007 to begin a revocation of Demario James Atwater’s probation. Atwater was convicted in June 2007 of possession of a firearm by a felon in Granville County, but paperwork to revoke his probation was not drawn up by a Wake County-based probation officer until November 2007, and not served until February 20 of this year, Guy said.”</p>
<p>Well, the State of Washington agreed today to pay $2.25 million due to a Washington state parolee who attacked children at the North Valley Jewish Community Center in California:</p>
<p>[Local</a> News | State will pay $2.25 million for shooting spree | Seattle Times Newspaper](<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004279316_buford13m.html]Local”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004279316_buford13m.html)</p>
<p>I am surprised the the Director of Community Corrections made a public statement regarding the length of time for the revocation of Atwater’s probation.</p>
<p>We definitely need to investigate who dropped the ball on many,many parts of this and figure out how to keep it from happening. Durham Police Chief Lopez is already somewhat patting his department on the back for getting Lovette saying that it’s not because he’s from Durham that he committed a crime but because he is in Durham that he was caught…</p>
<p>That’s exactly the kind of faux silver lining we <em>don’t</em> need if Durham is ever to come to grips with its crime problems. There must be a more logical prioritization of cases; better training of officers, appointees, and elected members of the justice system; and clearly, continued community vigilance.</p>
<p>ldmom: Yes, I posted the day they caught Atwater that he was in court on March 3-- or at least had a hearing that day. It’s unbelievable, isn’t it? </p>
<p>I’ve also stated that no one ever says much when someone is shot in Durham, because it happens (no exaggeration) on a daily/nightly basis-- if you believe what you see on the news and read in the newspaper. Durham definitely needs to “come to grips with its crime problems.” Maybe now that the criminal element in Durham seems to be spilling over into neighboring towns, other municipalities will sit up and do something about it. Durham sure can’t control the problems, even though they have at least 2 units in their police dept specifically assigned to deal with the gang problems there.</p>
<p>I thought only Washington State bungled such cases repeatedly. Terrible made even worse. My only solace today is that our sweet little tree-hugger terrorist and her attorney were scolded by our usually very docile judge. Hah-hah.</p>
<p>[Local</a> News | Judge says UW arsonist will stay in jail | Seattle Times Newspaper](<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004279226_uwfire13m.html]Local”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004279226_uwfire13m.html)</p>
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<p>Barrons is correct. And if presidential candidates, senators, and politicians in general refuse to take on the gun laws/gun lobby/NRA, do you really think a public university will?</p>
<p>You’re also talking about the South, where people-- just like most of the rest of the country-- love their guns. Sad to say.</p>
<p>I posted this on the UNC board, but this is a wonderful article written about Eve that was in a local Durham paper. The writer was on the same study-abroad program in Cuba with her a couple of years ago.
[Independent</a> Weekly: Eve Marie Carson: 1985-2008](<a href=“http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A198761]Independent”>http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A198761)</p>
<p>I feel really angry that these guys were still on the streets after their prior serious crimes. Probation doesn’t sound like much of anything if they were free to come and go and well, murder someone. Then, on top of that, it sounds like a lot of bungling of their prior cases and probation violations. </p>
<p>I also am curious how the police originally put out their pictures from the ATM drive up and then the ATM convenience store and asked the public’s help in identifying who they were. It would seem to me, that since these guys were in the system, that they would go through the files of their current criminals on probation and find their ID pretty readily? I mean they were not unknown to the police and authorities.</p>
<p>Great point. Keystone cops.</p>
<p>Perhaps they were pursuing both avenues of information simultaneously. Trying to identify them from police records from pictures and without any other identifying information could be a time consuming process, as thousands of records would have to be reviewed.</p>