USC post/my dad

Parent Cafe
21

As you dad said, parents are always parents, and speaking as one, I’ll always be there if my son needs me. That said, there comes a time when you have to stand on your own, and one of the things as a parent I think we should be doing all allong is to encourage our kids to be as independent as they can be, while also recognizing to what level that becomes impractical (and let you in on a secret, there is no magic book for parents on this, there is no formula on how to do this, so your Dad, like myself and other parents, do the best we can).

One thing I recommend, if you are graduating from grad school, you should have a basic idea on what it takes to live in the ‘real world’, things like renting an apartment, things like what it takes to own a car (insurance, maintainence), how to set up basic bills (utilities), how to get credit and so forth. If you feel you are lacking those skills, I would suggest talking to your dad and mom and ask them about those things (there also is obviously a ton of information out there these days as well), to get an idea of what it is like when you are going out alone into the world.

I can only talk about what I did when I got out of school, my parents initially helped me when I had my first apartment, my first couple of month’s rent and the security deposit were covered by them, and I had a small set of funds to cover cash shortfalls until I started getting my regular paychecks.My goal was to be as independent as possible, and my parents were a nice thing to have, someone who had my back if I needed it, which believe me is a nice feeling knowing that, but I also wanted to do as much as I could by myself. If I was in your position, I would be planning on looking for a job and becoming as independent as possible, it sounds like your dad likely will be paying for the car and I assume the insurance (given the price tag on a Lexus) for the term of it, but try and do as much as possible to become independent, I think you will find that while it might be limiting, learning to live within your means is very, very important and you will find yourself proud of being able to take care of yourself. It doesn’t matter whether your dad is a doctor or works at something less up there financially, there comes a time when the kids have to step up. That time will vary, with our son being an aspiring musician, we already assumed going into this that there will be a relatively longer period of time where he might need our help, but we also will be trying to make sure that what help we give him supports him towards becoming independent:).

22

If her parents are anything like mine, they really can’t teach much about budgeting and saving. I had to figure that out on my own and was fortunate I married someone good at it.

It’s evident you want your father to be proud of you so maybe that starts with an apology / acknowledgment that you know he’s been generous to you.

When my Audi bit the dust, I bought a Honda Civic. It didn’t meet my parents’ “car standards,” but I was beyond proud that I had done it myself. It’s a great feeling.

Also understand you are not going to live like you have been. You may have to cut down on restaurants, trips, getting your nails done, getting a latte everyday, etc. You’ll live!! Honest!

23

" How about we go look at a Honda Civic? (example)

The Honda Civic is likely the same care mechanically as the Acura especially if it was a ILX (I know it was just an example). In my house it was purchasing a 2001 Hyundai Accent for $100. We wanted our kids to learn how to drive a manual transmission. It was appropriately called “Stinky” as it had been stored in a barn after wet dogs had been traveling in it. It took the girls awhile to get that cleaned up. That was 6 years ago and the car now has around 312k miles on it. The name “Stinky” stuck and it’s now a term of affection. We figure any car that lasts that many miles deserves respect.

24

Thank you everyone for your advice, it is all very true and I will take it to heart. And hayden, tuition is 34K a year for me. So times 2 that would be 68,000. Room and board is about 1,000 x 12= 1200 x 2 which would be 2400. So 68,000+2400= Would be a little over 70K including tax, and of course another factor is other expenses. So I’m not sure where you are getting 300,000 from. Nevertheless, obviously he has been extremely generous. I have thanked him numerous times. I am a great daughter, I do the best I can. But I also don’t want him to have to pay for everything anymore. And I did not go to USC for undergrad. I went in state. My dad said that 4 years of undergrad was less than 2 years of grad school, so if you add that it would be about 150K total, for 4 years of undergrad and 2 years of graduate school. Which of course is a lot! And I am very grateful.

25

But I agree with you guys. When my dad and I got in that fight, he said “I can’t believe you are pouting and turning this on me when I work really hard to provide for all of you guys. I didn’t have to pay for USC, but I did.” And it bothered me so much that I was still upset. I didn’t understand why. I think it’s because I want to make a difference the way my dad does, but right now my hands are tied until I graduate. And whoever said I want my dad’s approval, you’re 1000000% right.

26

And yes, I agree. Maybe the things that I think are “important” as far as spending goes, really aren’t.

27

And yeah, I know that the Acura is a “high end Honda.” But my dad didn’t want me to get the GMC Terrain, the car I originally wanted.

28

@Aollie24, it is very, very hard for affluent parents to teach their children anything about budgeting, and even about gratitude. I’m not saying it’s impossible, just that it has to be done artificially. Where many parents can say, “we can’t afford that, save your money if you want it” to their kids, affluent parents need to say no simply for the sake of saying no to build character, perseverance and patience. And most affluent parents don’t do this, not because they don’t care, but because, like your parents, they are generous and love to give gifts to their children.

I think your dad is realizing this is an area he hasn’t done too well and is gently trying to change his ways and to influence your behavior. You can help by acknowledging that your privilege is just that, privilege, and teaching yourself not to ask him for anything that you should be able to provide for yourself. Once you graduate, these things include rent, food, utilities, car payment, insurance, clothing, vacations, and entertainment. You won’t earn enough to have any of these things in the same quality or quantity that you are used to, but that’s okay. Over time, if you work hard, you will be able to buy increasingly nicer things. But if you are serious about showing gratitude to your father, learning to live within your means, the money you yourself earn, is a good place to start.

29

@Aollie24

  1. stop being all contrite with us and call Pops ASAP and apologize sincerely for your little tantrum. throw in some tears but only if they are genuine.
  2. stop telling us you want to be a more grateful person, and call Pops ASAP and tell him how grateful you are for everything he has done for you and that you love him and he is a great dad and you are sorry if you have not seemed as appreciative and grateful as your should have been throughout the years.

for the sake of efficiency, #1 and #2 should be the same phone call, not separate ones.

  1. surprise him with a nice card and treat him out to dinner. tell him, "I know Father's Day isn't for a couple months, but ever since my little tantrum and the argument that I caused, I have been reflecting on how you much you have sacrificed and done for me over the years, and well, I just can't wait until Father's Day to let you know how much you mean to me and how much I love you. You are the BEST DAD EVER." this might sound corny but it will go over really well.
  2. remember this is all about expressing your appreciation for him. do not do or say anything that could be misconstrued as manipulating him to pay for something else. this is all about expressing your gratitude for Pops.
  3. take Mom along too. It might seem weird if you don't and that might cause another problem.
  4. you might mention that you were so upset about what happened, that you posted on College Confidential for advice on what to do, and even though there was some helpful feedback, Wien2NC was BY FAR the most helpful poster and you did everything he suggested. or you might not mention that. it's your call.

good luck. let us know how it went.

30

I agree that it is time to be more humble/grateful and it is good you realized it on your own. For the record, my kids share a Honda (my S lives in NYC now and hardly needs it) so I guess that is where I stand on kids’s cars.

And my H and I stopped supporting our S when he started his full time job (he did one year of grad school which we paid for because it was required in his profession) – we give him a little money here and there for birthdays etc., but he is self-supporting. And not long ago he treated me when we went out to brunch – at first I was going to insist on paying but I saw that his face was filled with pride that he was going to pay for me so I let him take the check and thanked him very much and said (again) how proud we all are of him.

In the meantime even as a student, there are many things you can do to thank your father now that, as a parent, I can tell you would be so appreciated. A nice note of gratitude would make him feel great, if you have an apartment you can cook a dinner etc.

31

I know 35K a month seems like a ton of money, but depending on where you live, and what needs to come out of that money, it really may not be as much as you think.
Your family has been very generous, as you know. Sounds like it’s time to stop asking, where feasible.

32

I also give a lot to my kids, and a bit too much at times. I would say 90% of time my kids are extremely grateful, but there is that 10% when they are just being bratty because they are human after all. They would apology after the fact and I remind myself that I give out of love with no strings attached. OP, I am sure if you just apologize to your dad, he will understand.

As far as what I have done after college…My older one graduated 5 years ago (wow). I gave her 500/mon the first year until she got her first bonus. She was paying for everything by herself, but didn’t have much fun money for going out. Since then, I have paid for our family vacations, dinners out when I am with her and some nicer clothes and handbags. My younger one probably will be going to law school next year, but she may work for 2 years before getting her law degree. If she goes straight to school, I will help her out and she will take out some loans as well. If she works and live at home, she will pay me rent. I will keep her on my health insurance until she is 26.

For both of my kids, they know the gravy train stops at some point.

33

I think we misunderstood the nature of the argument over the car. If your first choice was a GM Terrain, I suspect your father didn’t think that vehicle was good enough for his daughter. We were very happy that we were able to pay for our sons’ college(s). S#1 especially has thanked me several times for letting him graduate without loans, unlike many of his classmates. We have helped our sons a lot, so I won’t be critical of anyone getting parental assistance.

34

I think that you are asking a wonderful question. Kudos.

We are wealthy though with modest roots. We wanted to get my D a decent car when she graduated, but I also recognize that we live in Boston where many people “park by braille” and thus most cars break out in bumper rash. People with new cars freak out the first time this happens. We just chuckle. We have never bought a new car for ourselves but have always bought used, though by now, we buy really nice used cars for ourselves. We maintain them to mechanical perfection, though tolerate the bumper rash without tears. We bought my D a 6 year old, 60K mile, Honda Civic fully loaded with every option for a graduation present (~$12,000). We paid for the first few repairs (~$500) until we were sure the car was perfect. For her first year or so after graduation, I slowly showed my D how to handle her money, how to start investing, how to get the maximum 401K match, how to use credit cards, how to use bill pay, how to determine how much car insurance, renters insurance, how to maintain good credit, how to take the car in for an oil change and resist the inevitable upsell, etc. We pay her medical insurance because it’s free since we have to pay for her younger sister’s anyway. and thus require the family plan. She pays all of her own co-insurance and co-pays. She makes plenty of money herself.

Otherwise, we really haven’t subsidized her except that she comes over for dinner once a week, and we took her on a modest family vacation.

We also let her make her own mistakes. While we listen and commiserate with her about roommate drama, parking tickets, and medical issues (we are not physicians and tell her to go see one if she’s sick), our advice to her is “figure it out”. She has grown up a lot in the two years since graduation.

My suggestion to you is to aggressively learn how to take care of yourself and thank your parents for their generosity. At that point, gifts are just that, gifts. I also recommend seeking advice for complicated things, but to slowly taper that off eventually as your knowledge increases.

35

I made the incorrect assumption you attended USC for undergrad. But note your math. You said "1,000 X 12 = 1200. I hope you’re not in a math program! :wink: Your room and board, assuming the 1,000 X 12 part is correct, is 12,000. The revised numbers are 34,000 + 12,000 = 46,000 annual X 2 years is 92,000, which on a pretax basis is $184,000.

. That doesn’t “include tax”. That’s the amount your parents paid after they paid the tax, not before.

Now add in your in-state undergrad, which can’t have been zero even though you don’t include those numbers. We’re talking some pretty big numbers.

The actual numbers are not the point, though. The only reason I went into this is so you understand the extent of the financial commitment your parents made. (And for all of us referring to her dad, we should remember that the money is owned by both parents. The spouses of physicians make a big sacrifice as well.)

36

“Thank you everyone for your advice, it is all very true and I will take it to heart. And hayden, tuition is 34K a year for me. So times 2 that would be 68,000. Room and board is about 1,000 x 12= 1200 x 2 which would be 2400. So 68,000+2400= Would be a little over 70K including tax”

No. Check your math. Room and board is 1,000 x 12 which is $12,000, times 2 which is $24,000. So your school is costing $68,000 tuition plus $24,000 room and board, which is $92,000 - plus whatever other expenses. Let’s call it $100,000 for now.

If your dad is the highest tax bracket he’s basically got to earn double that to have $100,000 in cash to disburse on your behalf. How does he do that? One patient at a time. Think of how long it takes, how many patients he sees, to get $200,000 to net $100,000.

37

Oops, we cross posted, Hayden!

38

We did - but at least our math matched :slight_smile:

39

My daughter is graduating from USC (undergrad) this spring. Being around many wealthy students at USC has been hard sometimes. Not all are wealthy but many, and she has friends whose parents do the exact same thing as your father - lease luxury cars for them, pay for private apartments in luxury buildings, and so on.

My daughter wants to go to graduate school, too. I will not be paying for it. I’m 15 years from retirement with nowhere near enough in my accounts to retire. I am never, ever, buying her, or her sibling, a car, on princinple. If they want cars they can get a job and earn the money for a car and the insurance.

Keeping her on our cell plan, helping with medical insurance until she has a job, and possibly co-signing for an apartment lease (AFTER she has a job that will pay the rent) - that’s what I will do. Appreciate your question OP but you have really NO idea how most of the world outside USC lives.

40

“When he was filling out the paperwork, they asked for his monthly income. He said to me: “I almost don’t want them to know how much I make, just so we can negotiate a better price!” As a doctor, I guess he makes $35,000 a MONTH! (Close to 400K a year) I am just in awe.”

Just a note for the future: It would have been good if at that moment, you had walked away and not learned what his income was. If we were in a similar situation, I would have expected my 23 yo’s to walk away or not see the piece of paper with our income or whatever. It’s not their business what we make and it really wasn’t your business how much your father makes. Too late now, but I really urge you to put that figure out of your mind at this point. It’s his money that he’s been generous with - not something you are “owed.” What you don’t want to think is - let’s say a year from now, you’re living frugally and you’d really like a (new outfit, day at the spa, trip to NYC, whatever) - you don’t want to be thinking, “Oh, well, HE makes $xxxx, he could easily afford that for me.” That may be true - but it’s not owed to you.

It seems like you have a good heart, though, and that goes a long way. I commend you on having that twinge of guilt - it’s leading you to do good things!