Thanks @sax extremely helpful. I will look at those sites this week!
"Then for a 24 year old adult child who doesn’t even have a job yet, it’s really not constructive for a parent who is trying to foster the child’s independence to saddle the adult child with a long term car lease for a high end car for which child only has to contribute a niggling fraction. What is the message parent is sending "
GMT.
My dad somewhat resembles the OP’s dad insofar as he worked hard (lots of overseas travel … Something you know about) and he wanted his two daughters to have the best of everything. People who think like this don’t think of consequences. Two examples:
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as I said up thread, I got an Audi for my college graduation. It was a beautiful car and I loved it (and it was given to me, I didn’t have to pay even a token amount). But he didn’t think through that the insurance was a lot for a young person just starting out, it wasn’t reliable like a Japanese car (this was the mid 80s) and maintenance / repairs were costly. I wound up with a $4,000 repair or so that was a real struggle to our just-starting-out budget. My father derided my ILs for giving my H a “cheap, uninspiring” Honda Accord, but that car was reliable and we could easily afford insurance. No malice - just that people who spend like that don’t think things through.
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He gave my younger sister a Porsche to drive in high school. He thought oh what a cool car for her, what fun, etc. She hated it. It sent rich-girl signals to everybody and made her the object of resentment and envy. Again, he just didn’t think it through that just because you can afford it, it’s not the right thing to do.
He’s still like that to some extent. He suggested to me that I was wrong for “letting” my 23 yo D rent her particular apartment - the neighborhood is perfectly safe but the apt itself is no great shakes. He thinks we should have paid for rent in a nicer building. He doesn’t get that there is a pride that my D has that she can afford this place and do it on her own without mom and dad’s help, and that we would undercut her if we suggested her apt weren’t good enough. He doesn’t get why we didn’t buy her a car, because the cost-value of buying a car and parking it downtown and having it get scraped and dinged doesn’t make sense when she uses public transportation everywhere and would only have occasional need for a car. My dad is the nicest person you’ll ever meet and his heart is sincere, but people who are used to thinking this way don’t think things through the way you and I do. I don’t think the dad has ill will; he just doesn’t think through how his actions don’t empower this young lady to stand on her own two feet.
I’m glad – I just don’t want you to get discouraged if you go to a lot of interviews and don’t get hired right away. That is, realize that is par for the course- especially when you are just graduating without a lot of work experience under your belt. It’s good to think if the first few interviews as practice and not get your hopes up too high about any particular job.
My kids both got hired right away out of college, but my son got laid off during the recession and it was a very long time before he got another full time job; and my daughter had an extended job search for job #2. Since you apparently went to grad school immediately after undergrad, you might now find yourself competing for the same jobs with candidates who have the same degree but several years’ of work experience under their belts. My daughter was employed 3 years before starting grad school, and then continued to work full time while in grad school (taking 3 years to complete a 2-year degree). She’s getting a master’s degree in management - but if she were job hunting, she’d probably be a lot more attractive to an employer with her 6 years’ of work experience than a younger classmate with less work experience. (I said “if” because it she got promoted at the company she was working for and probably won’t be seeking a different job, at least not in the near term).
If D2 ends up going to a graduate school where she will need a car, I would get her a new, safe, leased car. I could end up leasing a high end car for her because the payment may not be that high.
Just in case if people are not familiar with how lease payment is calculated. You are financing (cost of car) - (residual value). A high end car lease payment can often be less or the same as an economy car, reason being high end car’s residual value can often be a lot higher. As an example, if a BMW costs 45K and its residual value after 3 years is 30K then lease payment is calculated on 45k-30k= 15K. If a Honda costs 30k and residual value after 3 years is 15k then lease payment is also calculated on 15K. Therefore monthly payment on a BMW or on a Honda could be almost identical. Disclaimer: all numbers are made up. Something also to consider is that BMW will cover regular maintenance costs, whereas other lower end cars do not.
As parents, we like to think the way we raised our kids were the best or the only right way. We think we were deliberate on what we gave to our kids or not, and we did it to build out kids’ character or to make them more independent. I used to believe that. But in reality, most of us gave to our kids based on what we could afford. There are probably few parents here, like PG, who purposely held back even when she could give more to her kids, but I would say most parents have their kids work, take out loans, not buy new cars/house for their kids because they just simply couldn’t afford to. I will be the first one to say that if I had the money I would help my kids out with downpayment for a house. Do I think parents who do that are robbing their kid’s pride in purchasing a house by himself or the kid is entitled or spoiled? I feel a bit jealous maybe, but good for them. I think some posters probably should reflect on why they are so judgmental on how other kids are raised.
The father/daughter don’t have to go “cold turkey” on gifts either. That’s really not the point. It’s having the D feel / be confident she could take care of ourselves, even if F is generous and helps out.
I think OP’s inexperience with finance or even with life has more to do with the fact her father hasn’t had time to “educate” her, not because she was given too much.
I agree. The OP is reflecting on her future and how to become more independent. She has asked for constructive advice. Repeatedly ragging on her and criticizing her parents is not only needlessly judgmental, but contributes nothing to the thread or the OP’s ability to move forward more positively.
This has been an interesting thread. This young woman has been sincere in her inquiries and for many it has evoked some reactionary and strong opinions. For the OP it is all that she has ever known and for for most of us that is what shapes our reality.
We all bring our own upbringing and perspective to the conversation. For people who have struggled there is less compassion ,in most cases for people who have had a similar upbringing it is easier for them to relate.
It defies sensibilities for some and creates fearful thoughts for their own children’s financial future. This young woman knows she has been blessed, that is very clear.
The part of this conversation that bothers me the most is her desire to spend more time with her father. As a dad who owns a business and used to work 70 plus hours a week, I cut my work time down when our daughter was born or worked more when she was involved in things where I couldn’t be with her. I am not of the same opinion that your profession comes first, even if you have a unique calling. I have seen to many young people who had everything possible materially but didn’t have their parents time.
This young woman seems quite grounded and I don’t at all get the sense that she is scarred in that way. Raising a child when you are able to afford to give them much more than many can is more art than science. If our daughter was not grateful and appreciative the giving would stop. The most important thing for us is that she is a strong independent woman and all that comes with that. It is a learning process for everyone, child and parents. I was teasing our daughter recently (she is a student at Harvard, and we are a full pay family) she is at a Habitat for Humanity build over spring break and she was complaining about getting up at 6:00 and putting in a 7 hour work day. I said “wow! that must be grueling!” she knows how hard her Mom and I work and what kind of hours we put in. She got my sarcasm. I do want her to be self sufficient, she does have a safety net that I never had, I will allow her to experience failure( not crash and burn failure) if I think that is what is best for her long term development.
For the OP, you seem like a nice level headed young woman. Tell your Dad it is important to you that you and he spend more time together, have him read this thread. Live below your means, invest and save money, continually decrease your financial dependency on your father, pay him back more than what was asked for on your car when you are in a position to.
I cannot imagine your Dad not being proud of you! Best Wishes to you!
In the defense of the OP’s dad, it sounds like he has had to take call quite a bit. Once on call, that’s not something he has any control over. The on call doc MUST return every single page. It doesn’t matter if he wants to spend time watching a movie or hanging out with his D. If he gets paged, he is required to interrupt his private time to attend to that.
I don’t know if the Dad has the ability to change his on call situation. If he’s in a small practice, there may not be a way to work that.
Ha! I get it - I have a H on 24/7/365 call! (Obstetrics)
^^^^^@PizzaGirl, I thought you might weigh in on that topic. 
Thank you to everyone! Like I’ve said previously, I reached out because I needed help. And mostly that is exactly what I got. I know that none of you guys have a lot of free time. So to take the time out of your day to help me, really does mean a lot. My mom, who I’ve been reaching out to more lately, just said “your life has never been normal. Realize that.” It’s good to get other perspectives instead of living inside this comfortable “bubble” that you’re used to. I know I can’t become a better person if I continue doing that.
“I am not of the same opinion that your profession comes first, even if you have a unique calling.”
My husband’s patients don’t feel that way. They are “hiring” him precisely because they want to know that he will interrupt dinner, family time, sleep, etc to answer their concerns. That when the simple delivery turns into a postpartum hemorrhage and he’s got to stand there for hours trying to stem the blood and keep a lady from dying, that he WON’T walk out because one of his kids was in a school play or it was our anniversary and we had a special dinner planned. I’m not complaining at all - I knew what I was signing up for. But it’s not as simple as it is for me in my job to turn off my computer and stop working.
Is it really necessary to state the obvious? Should I have been more specific in my post so that I covered every possible scenario, to include life and death situations for those professions where there is that level of responsibility to a patient or client?
Do you think I would suggest for a moment that a Doctor not immediately respond to a patient in need? I am rolling my eyes and shaking my head!
Our income is a fraction of your Dad’s, but thanks to a nice inheritance we were full pay. Our oldest we stopped paying for the day he graduated. He had a well-paying job. He stayed on the phone for about a year (which only cost us $10 a month) until he decided he wanted a different plan. He’s actually now in a position he could give us more expensive presents than we give him. (He’s given me laptops twice.)
Younger son graduated with a degree that led first to a couple of internships then a short-term full-paying job he didn’t really like. He lives at home, but pays for all his incidentals (except the phone) including a recent week-long trip to the West Coast and the Grand Canyon. He’ll be going to officer training school soon and I expect will be fully independent then.
Neither kid has a car. We live near a commuter rail line and they walk or take buses.
FWIW, my parents covered all my expenses until I finished grad school. I made the transition to paying for myself pretty easily.