<p>jym626,</p>
<p>You can’t blame the parents for something a 23 y.o. man does…</p>
<p>When this is all over, we definitely need to question how one can purchase a gun in this country legally in only 15 minutes. Also, the lame remark by the seller of the gun in his surprise that it was one of “his” guns that was used to kill those students and faculty. You sell guns, what else are those types of guns gonna be used for? Now your surprised. Maybe he was more disappointed than surprised that it was used to kill young lives but what was he thinking in selling a gun to a 23yr old that looks like a kid. I mean really, I wish I knew what was going through his head during that sale.</p>
<p>It is interesting how the gun dealer described the shooter - as a typical young 23 yo college student - sounds as tho there may have been periods where he was able to engage - and maybe he was able to with his family as well - up to a certain point. He may have had little contact with his family - the parents cannot be blamed - the shooter was not a kid - he was a man.</p>
<p>According the dealer - and the police - the gun sale was completely within the law. It takes about a minute to some checks regarding any record etc… so how could the dealer really refused to sell to him - all within the law.</p>
<p>nngmm-
I seriously doubt all of the shooter’s delusional thinking just started last week. Parents have a responsibility to their kid, even if their “kid” becomes a legal adult. Even more importantly, they have a responsibility to the public. If their child was disturbed, they should have tried to get him help when it first became apparent. That is just good parenting.</p>
<p>Yes, tututaxi, we are thinking along the same lines. I have seen many young adults at the behest of their parents, who are concerned about them and want to get them help. I repeat, I seriously doubt the shooter’s problems just surfaced in the past few months, and any good parent would try to help their child when they see that they are in trouble. I am not “blaming” them- I am faulting them for not being more proactive.</p>
<p>I just thought that there was suppose to be a waiting period before you can sell the gun, like a longer period for a background check, in general.</p>
<p>Jym626 - parents can only do soooo much - they/we can’t be everywhere all the time - and even if we could be - you cannot force something on another legal adult - unless there is cause to - legally. All he had to do was to say NO. It is not always the parents fault - or neglect. His behavior could well have started after he left home for school 3.5 years ago - or anytime in between - he may have been very high functioning with his family - this is NOT the parents fault.</p>
<p>Jeepmom-
You’d be surprised what parents can do. Just look at the parents here on CC. Many many many are trying to help their kids with problems, decisions, financial support, you name it. I have been in the mental health field for 26 years, and I have to respectfully disagree that parents just cant do anything to help a troubled kid. There is a big difference between what they can legally do (and oftentimes that is up to the mental health providers and/or the law to decide, but the parents can get the adult to an emergency evaluation even if the adult isn’t volunteering to go) and what they can encourage their jid to do, jsut by being a supportive, concerned parent. And you seem to imply that this kid has had not contact with his parents in 3 1/2 yrs. Where are you getting that?? Sorry-- the parents total absence thus far is discraceful.</p>
<p>It seems that in almost all of these types of mass killings the parents of the killers don’t seem to have much suspicion (or sometimes even a clue) as to just how disturbed their kid is.</p>
<p>Janesmom:</p>
<p>In this case it sounds as if the killer was patient enough to wait at least 4-5 weeks between his gun purchases so the waiting period (of 4 weeks between guns according to a report) didn’t seem to hinder this killer.</p>
<p>JYM - I did NOT imply that he has not seen his family - but… he may have been functioning high enough that he was not a problem when he did see them - that is if he saw them. On another note - he just have been ostrasized by his family. You have NO idea what the circumstances are - but are blaming his parents for his ills.</p>
<p>You are being infairly rough on the parents - not knowing any details at all. You are judging something you know nothing about as far as his family.</p>
<p>UCSD - thank you!</p>
<p>Maybe yes, maybe no, ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad.
You’d be surprised how many parents/siblings/family are well aware that their family member is disturbed. Just how dangerous they are, and how likely they are to act out in a massive fashion is difficult to predict, because it is a low probability occurrence. Most people, neighbors, etc are shocked when someone goes on a killing spree because it is an uncommon event. There was a scary, weird menacing kid down the street who used to get in all sorts of trouble, used to act out, hurt kids, shoot houses with his paintball gun, pretend to “play war” and tie kids up, etc. I wouldnt be at all surprised if he isn’t behind bars by now. But no matter how often neighbors tried to talk to his parents, they poo-pooed it and didn’t seem to intervene.</p>
<p>No jeepmom-- for the umpteenth time I am not blaming his parents, but I am sick of everyone blaming the administration and the police. If you are going to look at all variables, the parents role must be considered. Yes, I find the absence of any of his family in the past few days unacceptable. I fail to see why you are so quickly running to support them. For all you know they could have tortured this kid throughout his life. Just as you think I am too quick to consider their role, you are way too quick to dismiss it.</p>
<p>JYM there are cultural differences to be considered in this family as well - pride and shame can be very dynamic entities.</p>
<p>I know this is not a popular way of thinking - but… this family must now live with the shame and anger of what their son has done - they have also lost a son in this terrible act. I have no doubt that we will be hearing about his family in the future.</p>
<p>Not blaming??..I am not “blaming” them- I am faulting them for not being more proactive… </p>
<p>Pretty darn close then.</p>
<p>I am well aware of sociocultural issues. We will just agree to diasgree.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Why? Honestly, I don’t mean to come off as some crazy gun nut (although I have little doubt some people might call me that), but it is so extremely easy to poke holes in the anti-gun argument (especially as a philosophy major :)). Someone could just as easily go buy a car (and let me anticipate your next move - “but cars are way more expensive” and say that you can find super cheap cars to buy if you feel like doing something this this with them) and start mowing down civilians on a crowded sidewalk. I’m sure they could kill >30 people if that was their intent. </p>
<p>The point is, humans have been killing other people long before there were guns, and there is no way to legislate murder out of existence - it is simply impossible. The argument that guns make it easier is wothless because there are so many other things (cars, household chemicals, big kitchen knives) that would be absolutely absurd to ban but could also very easily kill. Criminals will always have guns, no matter what kind of gun control you put on the books (ask the UK about this one). Allowing law-abiding people to own and carry guns simply levels the playing field. It has been ruled time and time again in the courts that police have no duty to protect people from crimes in progress. You are ultimately responsible for your own protection. Why would you allow the government to take away your best shot at protection??</p>
<p>And finally…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Do you honestly believe that all guns are only ever used to kill things? That takes quite a bit of ignorance if true. I use mine for target shooting and plinking. Its a lot of fun and takes a decent amount of skill and practice, esp. when you get to the long distances.</p>
<p>jym:</p>
<p>That’s kind of my point. I think that sometimes parents have skewed views of their own kids and of course, they’re probably further skewed by wishful thinking. I’m sure that in some other cases the parents do know there’s an issue and I’m sure some (hopefully many) parents in that perceive the issues seek appropriate help for the kid. It’s just as you look back on the various school shootings many times the parents indicate they didn’t perceive any clues as to the behavior (keyword - perceive).</p>
<p>I think it’s too early to judge this killer’s parents until more is known.</p>
<p>jesus ****ing christ.</p>
<p>jeepmom-
you edited your post and added some lines after others posted-- not sure what you were trying to do/say.</p>
<p>My point is that while we don’t know much about this kid’s history yet, I am just amazed that no family member has even had the courtesy to speak through some intermediary to express their sadness, condolences, etc. </p>
<p>ucsd-ucla-dad,
To be kinda politically incorrect, often most people do not know just how crazy someone is-- they just know they are crazy.</p>
<p>jym626, the longest you can have someone held for emergency evaluation is three days, and then they can walk, and no one can force thawt person to get treatment, no matter what the results of the evaluation. It is your right as an American to be crazy. For all you know, the parents may have tried to get help for him. Or, perhaps they are out of touch. But teh bottom line is, you can’t force someone to get treatment, and I don;t see how the school couldhave been justified in suspending him, as he had never done anything except “act weird”.</p>