Virginity and Going Away To College

Parent Cafe
1

<p>My daughter is a virgin. Her best friend is a boy who is extremely religious and hopes to be a missionary. She is agnostic. She has pined for him for years. She has even attended his youth groups, read the Bible, and joined a Bible study group, but the truth is that it has not changed her beliefs. Frankly, I think that this is irreconcilable. Either he has to have a falling away of faith, or she has to pretend to feel what she does not. But in every other way, they are wonderful for each other.</p>

<p>About a year and a half ago, she told him that she liked him, he looked shocked, and said that he just wants to be friends. They went to homecoming together, they spend loads of time together, he gives her gifts, and does a million things to keep her pining for him. In fact, homecoming felt so much like a date to her that she cried for months because he was not “really” her boyfriend.</p>

<p>We really do not know why he has not dated her. He has not dated anyone, he shows no interest in dating anyone. Frankly, his voice is still pretty high pitch, I’ve got my doubts that he’s even completed puberty, although he is 17. </p>

<p>So now they are going to go away to separate colleges. He will go to some very religious college to study to be a missionary. She is justifiably terrified that he will find his “appropriate future wife” there.</p>

<p>Today we had a discussion about her virginity. She stated that she believes that she is pipe dreaming about ever being with her friend. She is attractive, and I am pretty sure that there will be pursuers in college. She has now started expressing that she is concerned that she will give up her virginity in college. She is not sure that it is realistic that she will find someone compatible who will agree to wait for marriage, given that she is not religious. I have not yet seen any “purity” organizations that are non-religious.</p>

<p>I would like to help her achieve a goal of a) experiencing dating while in college and b) attracting males who will respect her decision to wait until marriage for intercourse. </p>

<p>Is anyone aware of any purity type organizations that are not religious based? Any parents who have dealt with this issue?</p>

2

<p>okay, as an 18 year old high school senior, i want to say some things without offending you.</p>

<p>one, i think its really weird that you talk to your daughter about that. i could not have a better relationship with my mom, we are best friends and we talk about everything and i never lie to her, but once we had our initial sex talk, she thankfully left that alone. as it should be. </p>

<p>two, i think its really weird to post about your daughters virginity on CC. its like an advertisement. and maybe you didnt mean it that way or anything but…well. just my opinion.</p>

<p>three, purity organizations are CREEPY. fathers “owning” their daughter’s sexuality and then giving it away to their husbands? call me feminist, but thats sick. if your daughter is serious about her choices, she will find friends in college who are like minded or who can at least respect her decision. and if she’s as straightlaced as you say/think she is, then she wont be putting herself into situations where she might be drunk and taken advantage of. its a simple choice. make smart friends, make smart choices, keep a hold of your standard. now obviously theres a chance that she could get robbed and raped in an alley somewhere, but that could happen to anyone and we just cant live our lives looking over our shoulders. </p>

<p>things have a way of working themselves out. trust that you raised your kid to think for herself and make choices that she can live with, and don’t hold your breath. i say, you never know everything about your kids, and sometimes they arent who you want them to be, no matter what you think, but if you have a good trusting relationship, you’ll make it just fine.</p>

3

<p>inspiration08 was harsh. it’s easier to talk about something that’s personal and embarrassing in an anonymous forum, and i see why you did so. its not like your pushpinning her name and school to bullitin boards across the country… you’re just a concerned mother. Im a junior, and as strong of a christian as i can be, and i have vowed to stay a virgin until marriage. My dad doesnt “own” my virginity or anything like that - its a personal choice. if your daughter has made a personal choice not to lose her virginity then i think its great that your supporting her. can her missionary friend support her in that too? maybe as she continues to be friends with him some religious purity groups will work for her without pushing christianity on her.</p>

4

<p>Excuse me, I am her mom. She has come to me with these concerns. She has asked for my advice. </p>

<p>She knows that I had premarital sex when I was a teen and bore her out-of-wedlock with an abusive person. I raised her alone while I put myself through college. I later married and am happy, but she knows how I have struggled. In fact, most of the women in my family had sex before marriage and got pregnant. They either ended up alone or in a bad marriage that ended only with death or divorce. Recently a young woman in the family gave her baby up for adoption. The women in my family are extremely fertile. Indeed, many of these women got pregnant on the best birth control methods, including two women who got pregnant on IUDS. So my daughter takes premarital sex very seriously.</p>

<p>Unlike some kids who do not really care about their parents opinions, or parents who like to their kids, I have been honest with my daughter about my mistakes. And I am lucky to have a daughter who has chosen to learn from me and to believe my opinions on my experiences. She trusts me to advise her. And I owe her a fair response.</p>

5

<p>I do count on this being an anonymous forum.</p>

<p>For the record here, my daughter knows that neither my husband nor I were virgins on our wedding day. In my case, I wish that I had been. I had sex for all of the wrong reasons as a young woman. She knows that I wish that it had not been so. My husband, on the other hand, has no regrets. So my daughter knows that if she does not go to her wedding day a virgin, there’s not going to be a big scene. This is her choice and I am proud of her. I don’t want her to compromise her values. </p>

<p>She needs guidance. By the time I was my daughter’s age, I had been pawed up quite a bit by neighborhood boys (not by my choice) and I knew how to handle them. She is an extremely shy person who has never held a hand, been kissed, or had a boyfriend. She does not like to get close to people in general because she cannot handle losing them. She is not “worldly” about guys at all. She is extremely innocent.</p>

6

<p>Dad of 3 here. Explain to her that the nice guys she would want to marry, and who would want to stay and raise a family with her, are not the ones that won’t wait. Those who are trying to get in her pants now will be looking for a nice girl to marry, later. </p>

<p>This advice most credibly comes from a Dad or some other father figure, by the way. Dads know how and with what part teenage boys think. We were all one once, and some things are never forgotten.</p>

7

<p>Whatapainthisis, you’re not obligated to divulge any information you’re not comfortable sharing. Your daughter is lucky to be able to share these concerns with you. As for the purity organizations, I don’t have any experience, but from what I’ve heard from my sister, a couple of them are kind of pushy and almost cult-like. As far as I’ve heard, things that wouldn’t normally happen occur when students are first introduced to alcohol at college, so I’d encourage her not to drink more than anything.</p>

8

<p>That is what was wonderful about her friendship with this young man. While it has not been discussed, I am sure that his decision not to date has everything to do with religion and perhaps immaturity. The colleges that he is looking at are devout and proscribe all premarital sexual contact. I think that it is a good bet that he will leave college still a virgin, although he may leave engaged to a fellow student. :(</p>

<p>On the other hand, my daughter will likely go to a public SUNY. There will not be an instititutional proscription on sexual conduct. Indeed, it almost seems like a rite of passage to many kids. I think one of the reasons that she has always been shy and held back from friendships is because she does not trust her own strength to resist pressure. Her best female friend since childhood went back on her promises to avoid sex and drugs. My daughter cried in her room when she found out. Now she doesn’t even want to call her friend anymore. I actually do not think that is right for my daughter to do that, she is still her friend, even if she compromised or changed her values.</p>

9

<p>If her goal is to stay a virgin until marriage, she should stick by it. I am sure she will find some boy with the same ideals. Of course, there are virgins, and then there are virgins :eek: you know, who do everything but, and call themselves "pure. But whatever.</p>

<p>Personally, I don’t know of purity organizations in college, but I would venture to guess that this type of group would be associated with a Church or some faith-based organization.</p>

<p>She can stick by her guns without joining any group though, as they seem to be more cult-like from what one reads.</p>

10

<p>I think you are focusing on the wrong thing. Your comments about this young man are a bit odd in my opinion–his decision not to date probably has nothing to do with his “high voice” or your judgement about his immaturity. DD’s friend comes from a similar background and his decision not to date has nothing to do with his maturity and everything to do with “walking the walk.”</p>

<p>Respect this young man’s integrity and understand that faith and a common religious tradition are huge deal killers to people of faith. Unless your daughter experiences a genuine conversion it is NOT happening with this guy, and trust me that is for the best.</p>

11

<p>I know that what I stated about him seems odd, but the fact is that we have been left to speculate for my daughter. She does not know why he is not interested in her or any other girl at school, not even other religious girls. </p>

<p>The young man seemed genuinely shocked when she told him that she liked him. Boys who have not hit puberty are not particularly interested in dating. He physically seems as if perhaps he is a late bloomer. My husband said that until puberty, boys have no interest. So I think that my daughter is holding out hope that perhaps he will become interested in her when his interest in girls develops.</p>

<p>We are also speculating about religion being the reason. He is devout, but then again, he does not date girls from his church either.</p>

<p>It would be a lot easier if he had said a) I am not interested in YOU that way or b) I am not ready to be interested in anyone that way. </p>

<p>This lack of discussion between them has caused my daughter a lot of angst and dreaming.</p>

12

<p>I just threw out there the purity organizations. I know nothing of them, other than that they espouse chastity. I am certainly not interested in a cult-like organization. Perhaps there is some “dating network” for abstinent people. Some way for young people to meet who know right from the start that they have that commitment.</p>

13

<p>DT123, I hear what your saying. My problem is, are there in fact young men who are not religious who will wait for marriage? I’ve got my doubts, seriously. He’s a good man, but I frankly do not think that my husband would have… He just was not raised to put a priority on abstinence.</p>

14

<p>When I was a teen, I spent the night at a friend’s house. In the morning, her mother brought her a pill and watched her swallow it. I asked her what it was. She sheepishly said “Birth control”. I remember being kind of shocked. Yeah, well, she married in her 20’s and both of her children were planned. Maybe there was something to that. Maybe parents should just pack some condoms in their kids’ bag as they send them off to college…</p>

15

<p>I’ll try my hand at this question.</p>

<p>First of all, your daughter says that “she is concerned that she will give up her virginity in college.” To me, this just doesn’t make too much sense. It is quite unlikely (thank goodness) that someone will force your daughter to have sex. If she doesn’t want to have sex, she won’t, if she has any respect for herself. Good for her for thinking about this and having an opinion about her boundaries before she’s “in the heat of the moment.”</p>

<p>It seems like it’s much more reasonable to be concerned about finding a guy who will want to wait. But this too is unlikely to be a big problem, IMO. I know many guys who want to wait, and many more who want to do what makes their partner comfortable. There are nice guys out there. Really.</p>

<p>Good point from Missy Jo re: alcohol and sex. It seems to me that people tend to regret the decisions they made regarding sex a lot more if they made them while drunk. Guys sometimes take advantage of drunk girls, and your daughter should know to limit her alcohol use and always party with friends.</p>

<p>I would encourage her to think carefully about why this is what she wants. Maybe I am wrong, but the way I read your original post, it sounded more like she was waiting for this guy than that she was waiting for marriage. Which could be ok, if she is open with herself about it. I also understand the concern about fertility/pregancy. But honestly if she becomes sexually active and uses multiple contraceptives together (ie. the pill+condoms+spermicide), and uses them CORRECTLY EVERY TIME the odds are really quite low.</p>

<p>I would try to talk to your daughter (since it sounds like you have a really good, close relationship) about trying to move past this guy when she’s at college. If he just wants to be friends, and this has been the case for years, things probably aren’t going to work out. It is so important for her to respect herself and her needs enough that she finds someone who loves her for who she is and what she wants. It’s hard, I know it forsthand, but she needs to know that there is someone out there who will love her just as much (maybe more!) than she loves them. And that’s so much better.</p>

<p>Finally, regarding the pledge groups: I am not aware of any that are non-religious. Also, she’d have to define her reasoning better before she could find a group that matched it. More than that though I urge caution for two reasons. 1. The VAST majority of people who pledge have premarital sex anyway (this is true, I could find stats if you needed). This has two potential effects: a) she might be disillusioned as she was with her friend who broke her pledge, and b) it isn’t going to be as effective for her as she might hope. The second reason that I urge caution is that she might change her mind. What she wants at 17 might not be what she wants at 20 or 27. I know many people who changed their mind on this issue. She shouldn’t have to feel like a failure if she does. </p>

<p>That’s pretty much all I have. Hope it was marginally helpful, at least,</p>

16

<p>It seems like the daughter’s concern is more about her own frailty. She would like to stay a virgin, but feels that she may not be strong enough to abstain, and is therefore looking for groups of people with the same goals.</p>

17

<p>Maybe she doesn’t really want to go away to school? Just thinking out loud, same age as your daughter, and honestly, this topic never even crossed my mind as something to worry about </p>

<p>PS maybe he is gay and that is why he has no interest in her or any other girls.</p>

18

<p>I’d be concerned that she is pining after a boy who is clearly not interested in her. He may not have outright told her “I’m not attracted to you” but everything says that he just doesn’t feel that way about her. You want her to feel that she deserves better than that guy. I am always concerned when girls fall for unavailable men - whether they are not interested, religious, married or gay. I’d also be concerned that she questions her ability to resist pressure. She seems to be going into this believing that the guys have more power than she does. She’s the one with the power. Smart guys will always tell you this. She gets to say if, where and when. Feeling pressured is a negative thing - to be avoided. Boys who like her and respect her will not pressure her - they won’t ply her with alcohol to get their way. She may not wait until marriage and she may end up being fine with that, but if she finds a guy who loves her, respects her and wants her to be happy, that will be a decision made by two people, not one. Have her make a list of what she wants in a guy - have her write it down and have her be specific with things like “Does not make me feel embarrassed or guilty about not wanting to have sex.” “Does not ridicule me or tease me about my decisions regarding sex.” She can have a deal breaker list and a wish list (tall, dark, handome stuff) Have her keep the list and when she meets a boy who she is attracted to, tell her to look back at the list. Hopefully, she will feel powerful making that list and if somone starts threatening that power, get out the list, tell them they violated number 3 and move on.</p>

19

<p>“That is what was wonderful about her friendship with this young man. While it has not been discussed, I am sure that his decision not to date has everything to do with religion and perhaps immaturity. The colleges that he is looking at are devout and proscribe all premarital sexual contact. I think that it is a good bet that he will leave college still a virgin, although he may leave engaged to a fellow student.”</p>

<p>Don’t you think she picked the perfect guy to fall for? She CAN’T mess up and have premarital sex with him–she’s COUNTING on HIS disinterest. It’s time to rely on herself alone–of course that’s scary.</p>

<p>Please don’t take offense–I think you have to abandon the idea that the “women in your family are extremely fertile” and assure your daughter that SHE is not “the women in your family.” SHE has the resolve to not follow in your footsteps. YOU have done a great job of raising an independent thinker with admirable ethics/morals; stand back and admire the job you’ve done and trust that you’ve done it well enough to trust her, even if she doesn’t trust herself and encourage and support her. That she comes to you with these concerns is a testiment to the fine job you’ve done in establishing a basis for trust between the two of you. </p>

<p>She deserves to find love and experience all that comes with it, as she feels is appropriate. As long as she doesn’t trust herself she runs the risk of repeatedly seeking “safe” guys with whom there is no future–because she trusts them more. Maybe help her to establish a sexual line she won’t cross and the words to make her intentions clear to guys well before the line is crossed (but not so soon that they turn tail and run after the first hug!) and let her take it from there.</p>

<p>I have to agree I feel there’s something…too organized… about forming an organization around chastity. Maybe you could encourage her to seek out a Human Sexuality class in college, she’ll find support there for all kinds of “normal” in the sexual realm–including abstinence. She’ll definitely find out she’s got company in her belief system. She may even find like-minded individuals based on factors other than abstinence, or people who are (at least by the end of the class!) educated enough to support her informed decision.</p>

20

<p>I just reread your posts and this stood out to me:

</p>

<p>I think that if he and your daughter are really best friends, as you describe, she might try talking to him about it. It might do her a lot of good to find out what the story really is. Plus, talking about relationships, and what each partner wants is going to be a really important skill when she needs to discuss boundaries with a new boyfriend when she gets to college. Talking to a good trusted friend about it first would probably be helpful in the short term and the long term.</p>