<p>Does your daughter have an expectation of joy, fulfillment and pleasure someday in an intimate relationship – at the time of her choosing? To me, that’s so important. Or does she always expect that to be an unpleasant part of life that she expects nothing good from? The core knowledge that a healthy sexuality is a wonderful part of an adult’s life. If she really doesn’t have that expectation, I would find that sad.</p>
<p>"I understand that a child in the room may not be convenient to a therapist, but the therapist is to be there for me, not the other way around. And how the hell good is that therapist if he/she cannot deal with the problem posed by the therapist – lack of child care! "</p>
<p>OP, You may have missed the point here. this is not about the therapist comfort, this is about not exposing a two year old to an unecessarily traumatizing event, or letting you sabotage the treatment by making a two year old the focus of attention. It could even be a way of forcing a client to face their fears about childcare.</p>
<p>Insomniatic, what an idiotic post. I don’t think that I should help my child because I wasn’t helped? Are you for real? What do you tink my posts about? Because I enjoy typing? Either I’m too enmeshed helping my kid or I don’t want to help her?</p>
<p>My daughter actually prefers male friends. I would not say that she dislikes or distrusts males. But of the two males she’s liked, one is gay, the other is religious. She has hopes for meeting more compatible males. But she also says “This family is cursed”</p>
<p>I started yoga last year. Made a world of difference for me. I have let go of many things. I love life, it’s why I don’t want to ever die! Too much to do. I should have went into biogerontology.</p>
<p>I think the post was saying that until you yourself are healthy and well and at peace with the garbage in your life, until then, you won’t be able to help your D as well as you can</p>
<p>PS- My mom ALSO saw the same therapist- but never did anything from one session bleed into another</p>
<p>My mother had a rough life- when she turned 50, she decided to change her name…it was for her lettting go of the past and not letting her self be angry, and not beating herself up over the choices she made, but accepting them and accepting her life and her history- and not letting that history put a strangle hold on her future</p>
<p>“This family is cursed”</p>
<p>then take steps to lift it.</p>
<p>or continue to wallow, your choice…</p>
<p>Maybe it was different in the 70’s but I remember a TON of groping and predatory behavior from the guys that I’m very glad my mother warned me about. There wasn’t a lot of talk of nice relationships,either. There was alot of out of control crazy horny guys at those frat parties. I assume its 10x worse now? or not? Back then there wasn’t even a formal word for “date rape” but it happenned, alot.</p>
<p>whatapainthisis - regarding therapy, I have so many thoughts to add, but will only say this. Yes, many professions require some sort of psychological assessments (as mine did), but it was looked upon very favorably that I HAD done therapy because you are more likely to be in touch with your issues, and less likely to be in denial, thus putting yourself and others at risk. Therapy is a form of accountability. Many people who I went to grad school with, who had never done any type of therapy, were highly encouraged to seek it out. Even now, I continue to seek the guidance of a spiritual advisor, and when this comes up in my job reviews, etc., it is always highly justified. I think the tide is turning in our culture where people who seek therapy are actually seen as being strong and courageous as opposed to those who choose to remain in denial about their issues. I know that mental health benefits over the years have dramatically increased, showing the significance our society now places on good mental health. It’s still a long way from what it should be, but it’s moving in the right direction.</p>
<p>Secondly, regarding your fears of dying. You don’t know me and might have good reasons to be skeptical, but I will tell you that ten years ago, I could not even say the words I was afraid of death and dying. It so paralyzed me. But I realized a lot of that had to do with a lack of trust in a Higher Power and that Higher Power’s ability to guide my life. God never promises we won’t encounter suffering in our lives, but God does provide what we need to get through it. Once I realized that, and maybe more importantly experienced that by putting people in my life that actually modeled this, my attitude began to change. So much so, that I returned to school, with hopes of becoming a chaplain. I did two clinical internships at a hospital, which I loved, but ultimately ended up working as a chaplain for a hospice agency after doing an internship with them. I absolutely love my work. And I can tell you, without a doubt, that death is one of the most peaceful life events I’ve ever witnessed. Of course, the ones I see are due to a specific diagnosed illness, vs. some sort of physical trauma, such as a car wreck, but 99% of the time, the family will say, it was so peaceful… not what we expected. I’ve also been with quite a few patients as they passed away, and can say it was incredibly peaceful. The tiny minority of deaths that are more complicated typically happen in the hospital, and with those who have major unresolved issues with their lives. I am prepared to take heat from those here who work in hospitals, but it is absolutely a fact that someone is less likely to be as comfortable as possible if dying in the hospital than if at home. Hospital staff are understaffed, overworked, and just are not confident with the levels of medications prescribed to make someone peaceful. The hospice movement is trying to change this through staff education, but the stigma also comes from an older generation who (and I hear this all the time), “Doesn’t want to get addicted to those narcotics.” I’ve never seen anyone dying get treated for drug addiction! I also referred to unresolved issues… the more I work with the dying, the more I realize there are so many things in life I need to let go of, because in the end, it’s not worth hanging onto hatred, fear, mistrust, and anger. I approach each day with the attitude of, if my life ended today, would I be happy with how I’ve lived it. Yes, I have regrets, but those experiences took place when I didn’t know any better. Once I know better, I make choices I’m confident and proud of. Sometimes, in working with the dying, I feel I gain much more than I am giving back. I’ve learned so much about being kind to myself, forgiving myself, and letting things go that create walls around my life. </p>
<p>I’ll never forget, during an initial spiritual advisor session, after relating to the advisor one particularly traumatic event in my life, she asked, “Where do you think God was?” It was probably the most challenging and difficult questions I’d ever been asked in my life. I was able to work out the answer with some guidance from her, but still find when life gets difficult, it’s a hard question to ask myself and answer. I would highly encourage some journaling - at the beginning of my journaling, I would often spend hours a day writing (now I spend it on CC!), until I finished the verbal vomit, then I could move on.</p>
<p>You obviously want things to be much different for your daughter than you experienced… but sometimes in doing so, we create the extreme opposite, which is not good either. We need to deal with life in a continuum, not at the extremes. I don’t really want this to turn into a spiritual/religious thread, because I know your daughter is so ambivalent about it right now (hey, D2 is a proclaimed agnostic right now, so I can totally relate), but perhaps finding some spiritual guidance (please note, I DID NOT say religion) might be a beginning. Any professional spiritual advisor will not evangelize their beliefs to you, but will listen and empower you to find your own place of peace.</p>
<p>Please feel free to PM me with any questions you have that might be more personal in nature, that you do not wish to post here publicly. I hear a lot of pain in your words, and believe that, in order to be the best parent you can be, you need to address this pain in some more formalized fashion.</p>
<p>OP - It sound like a lot of things happened in your family/friends, which probability wise is unbelievable that so many bad things happened to so many people in your immediate circle (I could be just very sheltered). It is interesting that you thought you had no ownership in any of your experience with men. YOU decided to sleep with someone that you had no business in doing. YOU decided to get back with someone that was clearly not the right person. Even the husband you chose you are not sure if he is the kind of role model your kids should have. The sad thing is you are dumping all of it all on your daughter. Because of your experience, the girl is scare to death of life. You brought her into this world unplanned, but what have you done after that to make sure she lived in a healthy mental environment. She had no choice on your choice of men, but YOU had a responsibility to make sure she didn’t have to live in the shadow of all of your mistakes. I have to admit that I originally started reading this thread out of curiousity, and I even throught that maybe you were just an over protective mother. But I see you are just angry. Your daughter has a very unhealthy veiw of men, sex and life in general. You are not helping by dumping all of your bad experience/mistakes on her.</p>
<p>Just wanted to jump in (after all the wonderfully caring & insightful posts) & say to the OP that (as a former single mom) I totally can relate to her & her daughter’s interest in remaining celibate before marriage. Just wanted to validate that initial proposition, and say that I believe that that perspective (alone) is not necessarily justification for extensive therapy/etc. (although therapy can certainly be wonderful & very helpful!).</p>
<p>Premarital celibacy is a practical (not just moral) decision. No birthcontrol is foolproof. It’s completely reasonable to say (for instance) that you believe in waiting for intimate relations until you are with a person who you are positive would be a great dad (& at the time that such a thing is feasible). Otherwise, you are gambling with the life of a future child. </p>
<p>I’m sure most would feel this is a ‘restrictive’ or exceptionally retro way of looking at things. It’s also very practical on many levels, however.</p>
<p>I think its the REASONING behind being celebite before marriage, in this case, is what has posters concerned</p>
<p>fear of men, an idea that men are preditors, having all the people in your life having been either raped or assulted or molestd</p>
<p>If you FEAR sexual intimacy, and than make comments that you want to be groped, and such…that is not a healthy way to be…it shows that a person may feel they don’t deserve nor should expect a helathy loving sexual relationship, that “losing your virginity” is something to be feared</p>
<p>No one is saying to rush into sex…not at all, but avoiding men and sex because you have very unhealthy role models around you will most likely lead to bad relationships, not loving ones…fear of love and sex, two very normal human conditions…</p>
<p>we suggest the therapy because of the myriad other issues going on here…the saving oneself before marriage is actually a non issue, but the surrounding issues are something that should be looked at</p>
<p>Will the circle be unbroken…</p>
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<p>I have a friend that danced for a top-flight ballet company. Trust me, top-flight. He was one of the most macho guys I know in several respects. Tall (very nearly too tall for ballet), muscular, and a macho attitude (but truly not in an overcompensating kind of way; it was just who he was) – and very heterosexual. And I told this to a friend at work – i.e. that a ballet dancer friend I had was far more macho than others. His response: “You should find more manly friends.” It is certainly true US society in particular has very narrow lines along which men are supposed to tread. I don’t see that changing soon. I think it’s not as pronounced in certain urban areas, but I don’t know where you live. He’ll learn to take care of himself.</p>
<p>And eventually he’ll go out with woman/women and sleep with them (or men, who knows?). But the best advice I’ve heard anyone give is really simple: “don’t sleep with anyone you aren’t going to want to be around in a month.”</p>
<p>It sounds like it’s way too early for him to hear that message, though. Meanwhile you can teach him to respect women and at the same time, as he comes of age, not fear or be ashamed of his sexual urges.</p>
<p>I am listening to what all of you are saying, and I appreciate the posts.</p>
<p>And here is something else to add to it. My own husband does not appear to trust other men. He has admitted that he does not want a male caregiver for our son. Back when we were making our attempts to follow religion, he stated that he would not want our son to be an altar boy, because he doesn’t trust priests or pastors. </p>
<p>He doesn’t trust his own male family members because when he was a kid, they’d close him up in a barrell and roll it, and they’d gang up on him. They also would try to steal each other’s women. </p>
<p>There is only one man that we both trust, and that is his male best friend whom he’s known since childhood. And that poor man was molested by a female relative, and has never been able to really get close to a woman because of it.</p>
<p>Also, I don’t think that his father being an adulterer with the babysitter (my husband’s mother) helped any. And recently he heard that his mother was raped by her own father, a man who my husband loved.</p>
<p>I want honest answers here. How many here ever sought the assistance of a babysitter and hired a male? I don’t need to cultivate a culture of fear in my home, society does a good enough job of that. </p>
<p>Now I have a son and I want him to grow up to be the kind of man that I’d want my own daughter to date. I do for him what I did for her – He can do anything that he wants to. But society will do a damn good job of preventing that. My son is in gymnastics, but we also recently enrolled him in dance lessons, tap and ballet, because he showed an interest. At first he was eager to tell others, until he got some funny looks and comments. Now he only mentions the tap, not the ballet. Wonder why? I actually feel sorry for males in this society. In some ways they do have it harder. They are taught that they can’t dance, sing, show emotion (other than indifference, anger, or lust), or care about their virginity. I read an article by a 50 year old man “Why I’m Dancing Now” about how he enrolled in lessons and how he remembers what it was like to be a boy just watching the girls dance.</p>
<p>I honestly do not know how I will feel if my son ends up “sowing his oats” by using and discarding young women.</p>
<p>Yes Bedhead, he’s only 8. And I actually hope that he sticks with it. He taps around the house all of the time.</p>
<p>I also wonder how many here will admit to coming from families where education was/is not a priority for females because “they are just going to get married anyhow”. For those who doubt it, that was my world as a kid. I was expected to get no less than a 90 on my report card, but was repeatedly told “What’s most important is that you are pretty and thin” by my own father. No plans for college were made for me. </p>
<p>Which is what irritates me about some of the other posts on these forums regarding financial aid. I actually did get a scholarship to a college out of high school, but it was only for a year. My father refused to give his tax info, so I did not go to college. How did I ultimately get to go to college? Because some years later when I was 21, being the mother of a child out of wedlock got me listed me as independent. Basically, if she didn’t exist, I still would have been a $3.00 an hour cashier with no medical insurance and no hope instead of the doctoral graduate that I now am. That’s the truth (except now I’d be making about $7/hr.). </p>
<p>Face it people, there are a lot of people in this world who do not give a crap about their kids and their future, especially their daughters. They would be perfectly fine if some guy just marries her and takes her off of their hands. I know a middle aged attorney who is actively seeking a young female from another country to be his wife, to do his laundry, to have his kids. Initially, he got a young woman from Thailand, but “made the mistake” of encouraging her to go to college. She ended up in Med school and divorced him! He says that “he’s learned his lesson”!</p>
<p>About the comment by Opie about breaking the cycle. Here’s the facts. My great-grandparents were basically old fashioned, uneducated immigrants with a lot of kids. Their female kids went on to get married off. Some of those women, though, did climb a ladder of sorts in their jobs, and were undoubtedly intelligent. But the women (and I do blame the women I think more than the men) continued this sense of entitlement for the males. Women do all of the housework. Nobody raises their fork until the man eats. Women clear the table. When Mom started working in the evenings, get the daughter out of bed to tend to the baby, God forbid Dad would do it. By the way, make Dad a pot of coffee since your up. And that bathroom could need some cleaning. I even had an old aunt whose husband made her take both kids in a heavy buggy back in the 50’s to get his daily newspaper because he wouldn’t watch his kids. This is not slum culture, this is Italian culture!!! </p>
<p>And so I end up with genius father as far as IQ but the IQ of a moron when it comes to relationships with his wife and daughters. The man used to actually encourage and laugh when my little toddler brother would hit us! Now, I knew he was a moron. But my mom was raised in foster care and had nowhere to go. For her, marrying this man from this “upstanding” family was supposed to be a step up. NOT. There appeared to be no way out for me but minimum wage jobs or marriage. What’s sad is that if even one person had cared for me back then, they would have assisted me to apply to college. Instead, I did end up in a minimum wage job, and eventually a single mother. And if you read my posts on other threads, you will see that given the ability and the incentive, I did very well scholastically.</p>
<p>But here is the kicker on this “cycle”. Because I had crap grandparents who made crap parents for me, I had to go into enormous student loan debt to get out of the gutter. So now the “cycle” continues because I don’t know how the hell I’m going to pay for my academically deserving daughter’s education, although I do believe that it is my responsibility. “Breaking the cycle” is virtually insurmountable without an education. Too bad it’s so expensive. Face it, kids are punished or rewarded in this society based on who and where they are born to.</p>
<p>Wow, I just peeked into this thread again and read your last post, Whatapainthisis. And I’m feeling really creeped out because many of the things you described, were true in my family. (Creeped out because my life is so different now, I never think about those horrors anymore.) Down to the getting the males their food, girls not expected to get educated because they were getting married anyway, etc. (Except, my dad was German, not Italian, for what it’s worth.) So I validate you. We didn’t have sexual abuse in our family, but we had other types of abuse. You are not the only one. </p>
<p>It is indeed hard to break the cycle. My hubby came from an abusive family, too, but in a different way, and it was Hispanic. So, double whammy.</p>
<p>We have succeeded in breaking the cycle in most things. What was the hardest was learning how to be good parents, since neither of us were ever shown love. It’s been rough, but I think we succeeded on that one.</p>
<p>Also difficult was learning how to break the cycle of ‘you were born poor so you’ll always be poor.’ We’re having much more trouble with that one. We are not poor; we actually succeeded in making it to middle-class. But we struggle and have never been able to break past a certain point. Being well-off has been within reach many times, but always flitted away, for really bizarre reasons, as if we were cursed. Really strange. The only explanation I could find for it was sheer karma.</p>
<p>We’re not letting that stop us from financing our son’s education. He was limited to state schools due to finances, but he’s at one of the best state schools. Yes, we’re up to our ears in debt now, but he’s worth it. And THAT is the difference between our parents and us!</p>
<p>I won’t say more until I’ve gone back and caught up on the posts. I just wanted to validate you. I commend you for seeking understanding and seeking to break the cycle. It CAN be done!</p>
<p>Here is an excellent book I highly recommend: The Courage to Raise Good Men by Olga Silverstein and Beth Rashbaum. This book is highly profound and deeply affected our parenting style. Intensely good book!</p>
<p>There are repeated, unresolved themes of victimization that you are no doubt transmitting to your daughter. </p>
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<p>For all the misfortune in your background, you have managed to rise above it academically. That should be an inspiration to you and your daughter. The vast majority of people don’t have things handed to them on a silver platter. Life can be so unfair, but an outlook of gratitude for the good in your life can be remarkably powerful.</p>
<p>OP: I have the feeling that posting on this thread has been somewhat cathartic for you. Is that right?</p>