Virginity and Going Away To College

<p>On some of these more recent posts, my daughter grew up watching “Buffy the Vampire Slayer”. I had no idea how much sex was in there. There is truth to what was said about females feeling as if lovemaking is for the beautiful. I know that my own daughter feels that she could not take her clothes off for a male because she has stretchmarks and because she is not thin like the females on tv. I have tried to tell her that by the time she is mentally intimate with someone enough to be at that stage, then it should not really matter to the man. But maybe I’m feeding her horsecrap. These bodies on tv have made me feel the same way, and it’s pretty frustrating when a man says “Oh, go buy that” after a Victoria’s Secret commercial, when you know that you’d be lucky to get your calf into the underwear.</p>

<p>On a funny note, when my daughter sees the Victoria’s Secret commercial, she says “Her comes the Starve Troopers”.</p>

<p>Alrighty then - this thread just jumped the shark.</p>

<p>I’m a nice girl who wouldn’t give up my nice boy for anything, even/especially my “bad boy” friend who would do anything to be with me. I have to say I resent the idea that seeking out someone who treats you badly is somehow a generically female trait (as opposed to an indicator of low self-esteem and/or an unhealthy approach to relationships, irrelevant of gender).</p>

<p>I don’t even think Samantha is a hard case. Yes, she has many one night sexual encounters, but she falls in love three times, gets hurt, feels sadness, is kind to her friends, and ends up in a relationship.</p>

<p>If anything, Sex and the City betrays its constituency of single women by having all the women end up in relationships. Ugh. That’s opposes the original premise.</p>

<p>I think men can be tender and loving and self-sacrificing. I have not been overwhelmed by the sexual appetites of the men I’ve known.</p>

<p>Men can also be selfish, cruel and predatory in a way unique to men.
Women can be selfish, cruel and predatory in a way unique to women.</p>

<p>One thing I will say though. The putting feelings into words thing – women definitely do better. The going out in the cold in the middle of the night for a bottle of cough syrup men do better in my experience.</p>

<p>cameliasinensis, my point of the last posts is not to be crass. My point is actually that it is confusing for a child to know sexual morals when a) religious colleges tolerate rampant sex b) boys reward amoral females with devotion and dump the girls who “do not put out” and c) when shows that target young adults show premarital sex as vogue.</p>

<p>If you take religion out of the equation, and I just say that I want to raise a “moral child”, what does that mean where sex is concerned? There appears to be no concensus on what that is. Between waiting until marriage and just having serial one night stands, there is a whole middle ground.</p>

<p>And what is really frightening is that you cannot trust other parents to cooperate with any sense of morals. A mother that I know allowed her daughter to go over to her boyfriend’s house. Both the boy and girl were somewhat immature, almost to the point of impairment. It was understood that the parents would be home the entire time. What happened is that the kids were allowed to be alone in the boy’s bedroom. While in there, a 21 year old brother thought he was funny, came in, and threw some condoms at them. Guess what happened? The girl gave up her virginity. </p>

<p>Now, in regards to my daughter, the religious boy’s parents have never allowed my daughter to be in their home alone with their son, period. Although I think that I would allow it, I trust them both. I also have allowed my daughter to be alone with her gay male friend. I could be naive there, I certainly know quite a few gay males myself who have attempted relations with females. But other than these two males, I have been very strict. </p>

<p>Now there is a boy at my daughter’s school who is “every girl’s friend”. And what I do not like is that he has to always hug and touch the girls. My daughter sat at his lunch table and endured his backrubs for some time, until she took my advice and told him that she did not like it. Then he kind of “punished her” by being distant for a couple of weeks. Then he started doing it again one day at the locker, and she said “I still don’t like it”, and he removed his hand, but you could see him pouting. He really doesn’t talk to her now at all. And my daughter said “I don’t care. I have to let him touch me to be his friend”. </p>

<p>Now I had guys like this when I was in school too. There was a guy who was not particularly good looking, but he somehow had an appeal, every girl’s friend. And he tried (and succeeded) in making out with quite a number of his friends. And when he tried and it was unwanted, it was very hard for anyone to stay mad at him.</p>

<p>Given the society we live in, it’s tempting to just tell my daughter to focus totally on her education and career, have sex with whomever she wants along the way, worrying about her own pleasure, and when she’s ready to have kids, go ahead and have them. Either find someone worthy to settle down with, or have them on her own. It seems to me that this is what males have been doing forever. </p>

<p>Realistically, there is also so much conflicting info on when it is a good time for a female to have children. There has been a lot of talk about how it has been a mistake to encourage women to wait until their 30’s, that many women are heartbroken because they waited too long. There’s really no doubt that biologically, the best age to conceive is likely age 18-25. Yet, these are the years that a young woman is encouraged to get an education and start a career.</p>

<p>I am a 19 year old girl in my freshman year of college…
I have read literally every post in the last 15 pages, wow…
And my overall impression is that it seems that you and your daughter are feeding off each others fears.
If I was telling my own mother about my fears over sex and men, I would want my mother to tell me, “of course you must be careful, but you are a string, smart woman who was raised right.” I know that if, instead, she validated my fears with tales of all these horrible things that have happened to people she knew, I would never want to have sex.</p>

<p>I empathize with you, but I assure you that these bad experiences are not rampant!</p>

<p>I was 17 when I lost my virginity, and had been in a relationship for a year. Not only to do I not regret it, I feel that that it enriched my relationship tremendously, (it lasted 3 years) and I still cherish the memory.
I feel you’re placing too much importance on the issue of sex. Instead of scaring your daughter with tales of attacking men, (which I have never experienced in college!!!) teach her about how amazing a good man can be!!!
Honestly, however, after reading about all of your horror stories, you may not actually be able to do this, since it seems that you haven’t experienced many good men at all!</p>

<p>I was wondering, what are the chances that you could get your daughter to type up a letter about how she feels? She really reminds me of a friend of mine, who is very curious about sex (“i wanna get groped” ) but wants to save it for marriage. You could post it here if she doesn’t mind. I would love to hear what she feels from her mouth (so to speak)</p>

<p>Sex doesn’t have to be scary!! It can be amazing and fabulous! As long as your daughter is safe and responsible, just encourage her to be true to herself, and try to keep your own feelings out of it. It IS her life and only she truely knows what she wants from it!</p>

<p>Ah, there are so many posts that I want to respond to on here, but I’m in Finals week, so for now I’m just going to stick with this one post:

This is not true at all. I’m 19 and a college sophomore. I’m a little overweight, and I have some stretchmarks. I do have casual sex, with both men and women, though I am only interested in relationships with women. The first time I had sex with a man I felt a little self-conscious about my body for a couple of reasons, not least of which was the fact that he was (is) very, very attractive. Anyway, I have never felt anything but appreciated and respected during sex (since the agreement is always no-strings-attached, afterwards usually isn’t much of an issue). I get compliments on my body when I’m naked with someone; I’ve never felt that a guy was looking at me and picking out flaws or was turned off by stretchmarks or anything else. Yeah, they’re not the most attractive thing, but bodies aren’t perfect… The guys’ bodies have flaws, too, and guys can feel just as insecure about parts of their bodies as girls do. </p>

<p>Anyway, that is a very normal concern of your daughter’s. Most people have insecurities about their bodies. I do think that you exacerbate your daughter’s worries, as others have said, which turn them from small, everyday naggings to huge, looming fears. </p>

<p>I just wanted to let you know that in my experience, bodies are accepted the way they are. There are definitely instances where this isn’t true; there are definitely jerks in the world–male and female. But I think a girl who is strong and confident has a pretty good chance to find the nice guys and avoid the jerks, and if she finds herself with a jerk, she will have the strength and confidence to walk away and move on.</p>

<p>beautifully said…I would be proud to be your parent.</p>

<p>good job. well said.</p>

<p>Thanks, Molly and Ebee. </p>

<p>Ebee-- I really respect your posts, so that means a lot to me. Thank you.</p>

<p>*I’m in Finals week, so for now I’m just going to stick with this one post: *</p>

<p>I have finals next week too so what the heck am I doing on here? :confused:</p>

<p>So just to say this</p>

<p>I would reiterate my earlier point that what we think about people, what we notice, what we like or dislike, that can say way more about us, than it does about them.</p>

<p>" You say" you don’t want to be judged- don’t want to be compared to 15 year old models, but yet " you " are doing the same thing.</p>

<p>Lumping all people who happen to have same type of chromosomes together because of your experience with a few.
When you get to know people on their own merits, when you don’t automatically “know” how they are going to respond, when you don’t judge them- relationships are much more caring and open.</p>

<p>I also agree with corranged. ( nice post BTW)
Bodies are beautiful- we have bodies to use them- they aren’t just to cart our head around. When we live in our body- they are a reflection of who we are, and how we feel about ourselves.</p>

<p>I have been fortunate to have gotten naked ( and * more* :wink: ) with quite a few people. While I guess a couple were jaw droppingly gorgeous on the outside, what is more important is the soul within. One man I admit I initially went out with because he was so goodlooking. But he also was such a beautiful person * inside*, warm and generous and funny, that after a while I forgot what he looked like, until I would see him through someone elses eyes. </p>

<p>But the same is true for people that aren’t so photogenic. Its who they are on the inside that makes them sexy and fun to be around.
When people really like who they are, when they like other people and show it, that is pretty hot.
To say that “women” look beyond appearance but “men” don’t, is not only false, but it is a guarantee that you will find the type of men you expect.</p>

<p>That’s very true, EK4. When I think about my friends or even people I may be attracted to (who are almost never my friends to begin with, by the way), once I get to know someone I can’t even imagine what they look like to a third party. One of my male friends mentioned a girl to me today, and my immediate reaction was “ew.” He pointed out that she was good looking, but I don’t like her personally, so I honestly could not judge what she looked like one way or the other. </p>

<p>I was talking about being respected and appreciated during casual sex. If the sex is during a relationship or in the context of some kind of further relationship, looks matter even less. At least, I know that I can’t see a person for their looks once I get to know them: I just see them for who they are, positive or negative.</p>

<p>OP: If your D is a minor when she goes to therapy, don’t worry about it. Her records will be sealed. I don’t know how things are where you live, but therapists are bound to confidentiality agreements. Perhaps ask the therapist her approach on that? I wouldn’t give up on therapy so quickly. And I certainly hope that you are not discouraging her from seeking help… Your fears about therapy aren’t really accurate. Previous psych history does not influence a later psychological assessment. If she failed the test, it would be based on her answers.</p>

<p>Several presidents have had drug histories… Many politicians have records of numerous illegal activities… A few sessions in therapy will not hurt her chances at success. </p>

<p>“Considering that my kid is on the honor roll, well respected by peers, and has never had sex, done drugs, drank, smoked, stolen, or skipped school, I’d say that she’s doing pretty well!”</p>

<p>Welcome to my adolescence. I was not, in any sense, doing well. I was scared and depressed. She may be too, and, if so, she should get some help.
The level of paranoia that you have expressed and the level of insecurity she seems to display warrants, I think, some outside help. Please don’t let your fears get to her even more. They are already, I can tell. Happiness isn’t just found in a career or mate. It comes from the person.</p>

<p>We are saying this to help your D. Not to insult you. Please look past what seems like offensive comments and look at the heart of what we are saying.</p>

<p>Also, I am very glad that the therapist did not allow your child to stay. I know that it was hard for you, and seemed like a betrayal, but it would have been unethical to keep her there depending on what you were discussing. 2 year old kids are pretty aware. I still remember things from when I was 1.5 years old (though I have an unusually sharp long-term memory). Do you really want to risk your child having issues because she remembers mommy needing extra help because she was sad about needing to raise her? (aware, not mature enough to understand the involved situation)</p>

<p>“I know of a woman who was denied a professional license because she had suffered from depression. I am sorry, but that is bull. She managed undergraduate and doctoral school and then could not practice. I am sure that she is not thankful for the “help”. Therapy helped her right into poverty”</p>

<p>This is a difficult situation. I’m assuming her diagnosis wasn’t the issue though. Likely, she took the psych assessment and it revealed the extent of her depression. While she managed undergrad and doctoral, she may not have been able to handle dealing with other depressed individuals on a regular basis. I don’t know much about the psych assessment, but if it revealed that transference or something was likely, then she wouldn’t get the chance to practice. The situation is bad, but it is the best thing for the many who would be her potential clients. A therapist who can’t practice objectively is truly dangerous.</p>

<p>I disagree with emeraldkity4 on the MSW point. I have found them the least helpful, next to school counsellors, but least expensive. Do your research though. Maybe ask if the initial visit is free.</p>

<p>Also, your brother-in-law is only one counsellor. Different circumstances for different places and people. The dds/adhd situation is also VERY far from the norm. </p>

<p>As for sweet men, I can also guarantee that they exist! With the exception of one male therapist that I knew, ALL the men in my life were horrible jerks until my bf. This weekend will be two years for us. I am pretty shy/uncomfortable around guys (to the point where my top two schools are women’s colleges), but he is <em>very</em> quiet and subdued, and was “non-threatening” to me. He is protective of me, actually. I know that he would never pressure or hurt me. In fact, for a long time he would stop dead if I said “Oh!” or something because he just wanted to make sure he didn’t mishear a “no!” He is very attentive to little cues of mine showing that I’m nervous or upset or something also (I hestitate on showing that sometimes, but he also doesn’t want me to feel anything other than happy with things, even if I don’t feel off enough to stop things). Good guys exist, I promise. Sex can be great and safe for her. She just needs to be smart about the guys she pursues. The best way you can help her is to teach her to be smart (NOT PARANOID) about the partner/s she chooses. She MUST know that she always has the right to say no or walk away from the guys like those who hurt you and your family females. Those guys should NOT be given second chances. Second chances turn into 80th chances. She has the right to demand that her mate treat her with respect, ALWAYS. This best friend of hers is not very respectful, IMO. He made moves that seriously feel like mixed signals to me, and that is not fair to her, especially when he was made aware of her feelings. Maybe the first step she should take is to stand up for herself to him by discussing that.</p>

<p>Since we are giving out free advice :), I would advise a young woman with issues about men to wait to get involved in a relationship until she gets more centered and confident.</p>

<p>There has been a lot of talk about how it has been a mistake to encourage women to wait until their 30’s, that many women are heartbroken because they waited too long. There’s really no doubt that biologically, the best age to conceive is likely age 18-25. Yet, these are the years that a young woman is encouraged to get an education and start a career.</p>

<p>Sorry haven’t heard that talk. Twenty five years ago, several of my friends waited to start to have kids till they were 40, quite a few of my current friends have kids the same age as mine ( 17 & 25) but they themselves range in age from 40 to 65, mostly on the upper age of the scale.
I am 50 & had my youngest at 34 which I think is probably a good age to start having kids- additionally what is more important- that a young woman get educated & focused on finding out who she is, and hopefully finding a partner and a career that she can find joy through, or that she start having kids?
Also add that adoption is a very valid and loving way to build a family and I also don’t feel that giving birth to children or even adopting them is the only way to add their energy to your life.
Think outside the box!
FIrst things first- you must be emotionally, physically and financially ready to take care of yourself, only then can you start thinking about adding another being to be responsible for.</p>

<p>I have not read all 235 posts on this thread but I would ask one question:</p>

<p>Is the girl afraid to lose her virginity because she thinks:</p>

<p>1) she will succumb to her sexual urges, or
2) she will succumb to peer pressure to have sex.</p>

<p>Is the girl sexually attracted to the boy? Any boy? </p>

<p>Is it perhaps possible that she is actually gay and her fear of ‘losing virginity’ is more a fear of heterosexual sex?</p>

<p>Please don’t get me wrong- I have absolutely no problem with a decision to stay a virgin until marriage, for religious or non-religious reasons. I just find this particular story to be a bit unusual and I have seen gay people go through this particular rationalization of their lack of heterosexual impulses.</p>

<p>I’m not sure what precipitated her fear that she would compromise her decision to remain a virgin until marriage. She is attracted to boys. She recognizes beauty in females too, but she is pretty clear on her orientation. We’ve actually discussed that. Her bio grandmother (bio father’s side) was gay (or at least bi) and she knows that I would have no problem with her being gay or bi.</p>

<p>Actually, it was an Oprah show, discussing how women have been mislead into believing that they can wait to have babies in their late 30’s, only to find that the cannot conceive. I cannot seem to find a link to the show. </p>

<p>But here is an article:</p>

<p>[Prevent</a> Disease.com - Waiting Too Long to Have a Baby May Not Be Wise](<a href=“http://preventdisease.com/news/articles/waiting_too_long_baby_not_wise.shtml]Prevent”>http://preventdisease.com/news/articles/waiting_too_long_baby_not_wise.shtml)</p>

<p>I think that it is commonly known though that some women do menopause in their 30’s, and the risk of birth defects greatly increases.</p>

<p>It just seems as if there is no good time. Even a female physician at 30 would be having children just when her career would get going. And the life of a young physician is not even conducive to a healthy pregnancy or caring for a child. And if a female has the child before becoming a physician, it’s a deep hindrance to getting through med school. I was considering med school while in undergrad. But you had to attend classes all day, 8-4 a.m., plus be on call for the local hospital at night. There was no way to fit raising a child into that, the daycares didn’t even accomodate that. Needless to say, I went into something else…</p>

<p>Even a female physician at 30 would be having children just when her career would get going</p>

<p>Oh tell me about it :rolleyes:, my high risk obgyn ( because I had a previous preterm birth) when I was 34 gave birth just about a month before I did- so when I was in labor :frowning:
She was actually a teaching fellow- so she was working and going to school at the same time- quite a woman :)</p>

<p>I think there would have to be something wrong to have menopause at 30- of course I am 50 and still having periods every month.Don’t know what that is about :confused:
But ya know- what is the obsession with having kids?</p>

<p>My fianc</p>