Wash U and Colgate

Parents Forum
1

Two kids, two different schools and my perspectives. Both my kids are hard workers, but also very social, and I think that is great. Personally I don’t think college is meant to be a relentless grind.

My son is a senior at Wash U St. Louis. Great academic program but a couple of negatives. Social life revolves around frats, and the school seems to be tightening restrictions around them for crimes real and imagined. The problem is there is no other social alternative. Even parties in housing are controlled as the school also owns these units. With no serious sports, or other events on campus, life is very dry. Frankly it is a bit of a nanny state, best populated by introverts. Also there is almost no diversity outside of what is provided by Asians. With the school’s huge endowment, couldn’t it do a little better here, be more inclusive…?

Colgate is quite the contrast socially, as I see from my d. Out in the middle of nowhere, but the place is always hopping. I am not much of a sports person but I will say it adds. There are parties in frats, parties in townhouses and sporting events to go to. Sports teams that are not in frats provide an alternative to the frat scene. There are formals and relaxed gatherings and well as a dance scene. In St Louis there are a bunch of bars, but when you only have a few like in Hamilton , you get a reasonable quorum of people. There is not a ton of diversity at Colgate, but way more than at Wash U. Much of that comes in from the sports but its good to see it. The school can be preppy but daughter found her own crew and totally loves it.

2

The demographic percentages at WUSTL are not that far from most other highly selective non-LAC colleges. Colgate, like many LACs, fairs worse. Some examples are below using federal race definitions (often very different from percentages listed on college websites):

Colgate – 4% Asian, 5% Black, 9% Hispanic
WUSTL – 17% Asian, 8% Black, 8% Hispanic
Harvard – 17% Asian, 7% Black, 11% Hispanic
Duke – 21% Asian, 10% Black, 9% Hispanic
Vanderbilt – 13% Asian, 10% Black, 10% Hispanic
Stanford – 22% Asian, 7% Black, 16% Hispanic

The bigger issue is SES diversity. WUSTL is probably the least SES diverse selective private college in the United States, among colleges that have a statistically significantly sized student body. Colgate is not far behind. A comparison among percent in top x% income, as list in the NYT report is below. I adjusted median income based on inflation.

WUSTL – $294k median, 71% in top 10%, 84% in top 20%, <1% in bottom 20%
Colgate – $292k median, 66% in top 10%, 77% in top 20%, 2% in bottom 20%
Vanderbilt – $221k median, 59% in top 10%, 70% in top 20%, 2% in bottom 20%
Duke – $202k median, 56% in top 10%, 69% in top 20%, 4% in bottom 20%
Harvard – $183k median, 53% in top 10%, 67% in top 20%, 4% in bottom 20%
Stanford – $181k median, 52% in top 10%, 66% in top 20%, 4% in bottom 20%

3

@data10 The demographic percentages on WUSTL’s website (for 2018/19) vary markedly from the 17/18 CDS. Not sure what is amiss, I doubt things have changed this much in one year:

Asian 31.28% (very different from last year’s CDS of 17%)
Black 10.5%
Hispanic 7.59%

https://registrar.wustl.edu/student-information-systems/student-enrollment-and-graduation-statistics/student-body-diversity/

4

As I noted in my post, “using federal race definitions (often very different from percentages listed on college websites)”. The CDS uses federal racial definitions and reports the same 17% I listed. WUSTL’s website does not using federal definitions and reports something else. Perhaps they are counting international students from Asian countries as “Asian”. There are more clear racial definitions on WUSTL’s website at https://provost.wustl.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Student-Diversity-Detail-thru-2017-A-UG-Day-DS.pdf . The total on this page is 21% Asian with a sum of racial percentages = 120%. I expect 4% of the Asian students were double counted (mixed race) and part of the extra 20% beyond 100%. If so, when removing the 4% double counted Asian students, it would bring the total down to the 17% Asian listed in the CDS and other sources that use federal definitions.

5

Thanks for posting @MK1975 . My D is interested in Colgate, so it’s good to hear your report.
fwiw - on our visit to Colgate, we saw more diversity hands down, than pretty much any other LAC we visited. That belies the stats they post, but walking around campus that day we saw a lot of diversity.

6

Our student is a Senior at Wash U and manages to keep pretty busy. Lives off campus on the Delmar Loop. Plenty of concerts, bars and restaurants there, in Central West End, and other areas of the city. Follows Cardinals and Blues. Wash U has one of the top Div III sports programs in the country – but I would agree that the student’s don’t support them as much as Div I schools (Colgate hockey and lacrosse for example). Our student definitely works hard but as they remind us, that is the path they chose. So it comes down to each their own – small town or mid-sized city. On the economic diversity, Wash U recognizes that is has a ways to go to become more economically diverse and has recently raised more than $500M to support financial assistance – so yes, that endowment will be used to certainly make the school more diverse. They have taken a number of other steps in this direction. Our student moved off campus after sophomore year and has lived and worked in St. Louis continuously for almost two years. Loves the city and exploring the neighborhoods. On campus there certainly seems like plenty to do – concerts, plays, ballet, seminars, movies, etc. Two fine institutions – you will know what is right for you.

7

I think the statistics reported on ethnic diversity can be very different than the feel one gets on a campus, either as a student or a visitor. One aspect is how students are defined for reporting purposes. Another has to do with campus culture and conventions. Students may tend to self-segregate at some colleges, whereas social activities at another might tend to be more inclusive. And location is a factor as well, given that some students in an urban or suburban area might be more likely than others to do their socializing off campus, and/or opt for off-campus housing.

8

Does anyone know why the Wash U ED matriculation rate is onlly 58%? I’m a legacy there, and Heard this figure from my grandfather, who was just reading the publication to me over the phone… I thought early decision was binding…and guidance counselors won’t cooperate with your decision to apply to more than one school early decision. Are the students applying to other schools ED and choosing a different one? Or reversing their decision later in the cycle once they have received regular decision offers with potential he more financial aid?

9

You are allowed to apply to public schools or withdraw if FA does not meet your needs.

10

Does Gramps needs some new eyeglasses. Wash U’s total yield, aka, matriculation rate of acceptees (ED+RD) is 36%. Perhaps the RD rate is 58%?

11

If that figure is accurate, it may be for all students who applied ED and were admitted – including those deferred in the initial round and admitted in the RD round. ED admits are not obligated to attend if they were deferred.

12

@bluebayou: The RD yield can’t be 58% if total yield is 36% unless ED yield is insanely low and ED gets a massive number of acceptances. Total yield has to between RD yield and ED yield.

In any case, applicants are allowed to back out of ED acceptances if fin aid isn’t enough and WashU doesn’t guarantee to meet full need (as of a couple of years ago).

13

Yes, apparently so! Inquired again and he just meant 52% were denied early decision!

14

So 58% of ED applicants to WashU are admitted? That’s quite high.

15

The 3rd hand information from grandpa seems to be unreliable. I’d stick to official publications, such as the one at https://admissions.wustl.edu/apply_site/Pages/profile.aspx which mentions the following acceptance rates during the previous class. .

ED – 42% accepted (58% rejected, maybe this is the referenced 58%)
RD – 13% accepted

16

@brantly – check your math. 100 - 52 = 48. That is, if 52% of applicants were denied, that would mean 48% admitted.

Of course the numbers pulled by @Data10 would reflect an even lower admission rate (58% rejected).

17

The original post mentioned 58% ED yield, which is where the 58% came from. That was later changed to 52% rejected during ED.

18

42% ED (they do not delineate between ED 1 and ED 2, unfortunately), so yes, sorry for typo, 58% EDers not accepted. 13% RD, 15% total. 4,708 total admits

19

^Class of 2022 had ED only. It’s this year’s admitted class that will have both ED1/ED2.

I would be curious to know what the actual breakdown for ED1 and ED2.