Washington and Lee vs. Tulane vs. TCNJ/NJMS 7 year medical program?

College Search & Lists
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Hi! I’m currently attempting to make a college decision. For some context, I am intending on eventually working in healthcare. I think I want to become a doctor and specialize in infectious disease, and work for an organization like the WHO in developing courses of action or researching solutions to disease. Alternatively, I would like to work in healthcare policy making on a governmental or international level. I’m very interested in public health, international development, and politics (though I don’t think I specifically want to major in political science). I am an Asian female from NJ. I was accepted into all three of the schools I mentioned. At W&L, I received the Johnson Scholarship which covers full tuition, room, and board. My net cost per year is estimated at around $4k per year. At Tulane, I received a full tuition scholarship (the DHS). My net cost would be around $19k per year (because I would be living in the honors dorms which are a bit more expensive). At TCNJ, my cost is about $17k per year for three years. NJMS would be about $50k for the next four years. I’ll now list pros and cons of each school, from the perception I have of them! (I’ve visited all three). My parents are willing to pay these fees because I got scholarships. They said that I don’t have to consider the price, but I feel like I do at least a little bit. That being said, all of these schools are extremely below the EFC the FAFSA gave us. They will likely also pay (or at least help me pay) for grad school or medical school because of the money they are saving now.

W&L:
PROS- cheapest, small class size, honor code, feeling of ‘community’(?), study abroad often (I would go every spring term if I could; this term is only four weeks long and you only take one class so it does not involve missing pre-med reqs), research more available because of less students, mock-con, good connections through alumni and classmates.
CONS- greek life is very prevalent (80%+), Lexington is very isolated, the school is not diverse, social life is based around partying, there’s a reputation of it being a school for the rich

TULANE:
PROS- school of public health (I would be able to major in biology, public health, AND international development fairly easily if I wanted, though I would probably either give up biology or do international development as a minor), city school, preferential admission to their medical school, diversity, New Orleans has a better culture, lots of student activities, I have friends there already (less important).
CONS- most expensive option, larger class sizes freshman year, harder to gain research opportunities, have to fly there (less important).

TCNJ/NJMS:
PROS- guaranteed admission into medical school, I liked NJMS
CONS- lots of people from my high school go to TCNJ, can’t explore my interests while at TCNJ because of only being there for three years, NJMS might not be the best medical school I can get into (less important because I liked it), NJMS is in Newark, TCNJ is in Ewing which is a boring suburb

If there’s any more information you need, feel free to ask me! I’m not sure what I want. My mom really wants me to go to W&L :stuck_out_tongue:

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I’m sorry you haven’t gotten any comments. It seems like you have thought out the pros and cons pretty clearly.

It doesn’t seem like you like W&L except for the net cost which is not to be taken lightly.

I would not worry about whether the med school with TCNJ is the best because getting into any med school is an achievement.

How sure are you on med school?

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Tell us, what are your stats?

If they’re high enough, then likely you’ll do well as a premed and get into med school the traditional way.

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<<<
need places that would give me merit aid (or places that are affordable- my parents said they would pay $30,000 or so a year, I could take out loans for the rest if the school is worth it).

STATS:
GPA: 3.86UW/4.62W
SAT: 790CR, 800M, 750W


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You have very high stats. You probably could get into med schools the traditional way. However, there’s noting wrong with NJMS, particularly if your intended specialty will be Infectious Disease.

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@surfcity No worries, I assumed less people would be willing to read the long paragraph I wrote! I am fairly sure I want to go to medical school, but I don’t know if I want an MD or an MD/MPH or MD/PhD program. I say this because I (right now) don’t want to become a practicing physician; I would rather work in policy. NJMS requires that you enter the medical school after three undergraduate years are completed (not any earlier or later). I feel like if I go there, I would have to do an MPH at the same time as medical school (NJMS does allow you to do that) which would be more difficult because it would be over a period of four year instead of the usual five.

@mom2collegekids thanks for the advice! I’m mostly afraid that with the increased competition that comes with going to a good school, I’ll be unable to maintain a high enough GPA. (I’m unsure if I would be able to continue to be near the top of the class in college). I definitely liked what I heard about NJMS’s Infectious Disease programs. The doctor that interviewed me was telling me about it and mentioned that NJMS has a huge advantage in that department because of its location in Newark- due to a large international airport being located there, it is not uncommon to see foreign diseases.

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To me, if you are only “fairly sure” and “think” that you want to be a doctor, that means a BS/MD combined program is maybe not a good choice. I’m not a fan of them anyway, but I definitely think they are for students who 100% want to be a doctor and have known this for some time now. They are less likely to change their minds later.

W&L is a great school and unless you really dislike it, I don’t see any reason why you’d spend $80K at Tulane or TCNJ when you could go to W&L for $16K. But even if you really wanted to spend the money because you really disliked W&L, Tulane sounds like your next best option. You only listed two pros about TCNJ, and both of them are related to the medical school and not to TCNJ itself. I also don’t think it’ll be harder for you to gain research opportunities at Tulane. It’s not a gigantic school or anything. It’s only more marginally more expensive than TCNJ,

My opinion is W&L is your best choice, but if you really can’t see yourself there, Tulane is better than TCNJ.

Why? You can do an MPH after your MD. I know lots of people who did this; there are many one-year MPH programs for people who already hold doctoral degrees. I even know a student who took two years off from med school to get an MPH: he did two years of med school, then the MPH, then finished up. I think you’re overthinking too far ahead.

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@juillet you’re probably right about the MPH thing, that’s what I had originally assumed, but one of the doctors at NJMS told me that I could “decide to do the MPH” if it wouldn’t be too much work (in addition to medical school) which in context, I took to mean that I had to do during medical school.
Also, l assume I would eventually learn to like W&L, but there are certain aspects of the culture there that I don’t like (but that is also true for Tulane. I just feel as if in a city, or in a larger school, I can get away from it). The net cost is important, I agree, but my parents said to me when I asked them yesterday that because this would be paid from savings, without any loans, I could go to whichever of these schools I wanted without worrying about the cost because they would still be willing to help me out with whatever graduate school I do. I’m definitely still considering all three schools but in terms of the overall experience, opportunities, and quality of education.
I know I want to be a doctor, but I’m not sure I ONLY want to be a doctor, and I’m not sure what path would lead me to the career I want.
Thanks for your response!

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Since you’re very sure that you’re going to med school (and it sounds as if you’re a determined students who will make it happen), be sure to factor in not just undergrad costs, but potential med school cost.

Although W&L is initially more cost effective, since you’re sure that med school is in your future (practicing physician or not) the total TCNJ cost seem considerably less. You state TCNJ at $17k undergrad + $50k med school, which is an amazing net price and considerably less overall debt. Most med school programs will put people in debt up to $250k, which can impact your future.

I currently know many doctors (four to be exact) who’ve successfully done MPH/MD, or MD > MPH. It’s not easy but if the TCNJ folks say it’s possible, then it sounds like it can be done.

Cost-wise, TCNJ would be my vote.
In a close second place, I would put Tulane, as their both MPH and Tropical disease programs are internationally-known for good reasons. It’s what they excel in. Adding in the med-school admission preference, if it’s at all cost-effective, then go for it. You’ll have some of the best MD shadowing/internship options in your specific interest field than at any other school.

From your OP, it sounds as though W&L is your least favorite. My question would be if being at a place that you weren’t terribly happy would allow you to do your best work? I’m not saying that it wouldn’t, only that it’s something for you to consider. Consider also if you’ll have the same access to research or internships as the other two schools.

Sounds like you’re a great student who’s worked hard for some terrific options.
Good luck with your choice. Let us know when you’ve decided.

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@hop thanks for the advice! I’ll definitely take it into account. :slight_smile:

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I also have two possible other options that I wasn’t really considering but I could theoretically go to: Rutgers Honors (the reason why I wasn’t considering it was because it would cost me the same as Tulane, a perhaps better school) or McGill (I haven’t been accepted yet but if I am, it would cost $30k and it would also be, according to people on this website, more difficult to gain research or shadowing experience). Right now I feel like Tulane might be the right place for me as a person, but logically one of the other two might be better investments.

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Have you reached a decision?

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I obviously was not part of the conversation, but I don’t believe that’s what he meant. Of course an MPH would be a lot of extra work in addition to medical school, and unless NJMS has a formalized MD/MPH program where you could complete it in 5 years, it would probably make more sense for you to just do one after you finish the MD.

If your parents are telling you that they would pay for you debt-free and you don’t have to worry about this at all - and I am assuming that they are wealthy enough for this to be true - then why not choose Tulane, which you feel is the best choice?

I would also like to know what you decided, OP!

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@blossom27 is the TCNJ/ med school thing a forced thing. Can you attend TCNJ and then go to some other school if you wanted to instead of med school? They give you auto admit to NJMS, but you decline to attend?

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Most kids who start out thinking they want to go to med school do not end up there, either by choice (they change their mind), inability to get in, or due to the cost.

W&L is an elite LAC and you would save ~$60k there over Tulane. What you do is, make a few friends freshman year and then you decide together if you want to join a Greek house. If so, fine; if not, you’ll still be able to hang out with one another. At any rate, if you do well there, you’ll be set up fine for med school, and you will have been able to save some money for it.

Tulane is a good private U in a cool city. But it’s the most expensive option and you might be tempted to spend even more given all the city has to offer for food and entertainment-- the downside to being in a place that offers so much to do, when you need to be saving $$$.

TCNJ is a good school too – not quite the rep of the other two, but it’s becoming better-known and the guaranteed med school thing is pretty cool. But if you changed your mind, you’d sort of be stuck there. And you don’t probably need to be at TCNJ to get into med school if you take care of academic business at W&L or Tulane.

I would choose W&L mostly on cost and class size/academics. Making a few friends will really help on the social front.

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http://biology.tcnj.edu/academics/medical-careers/7-year-medical-program/7-year-medical-program-faq/

The TCNJ program requires earning a 3.5 GPA science and overall *every * semester with no grade lower than a B in science and no grade lower than C overall.

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@sc00per88 no, haven’t decided yet! I’m at a final college visit, so hopefully I’ll gain some clarity.

@juillet I visited TCNJ earlier this week and they told me you can do the MD/MPH program in 5 years at NJMS, or you can give up your third year at TCNJ (assuming you have enough AP credits to fulfill graduation requirements within 2 years) and do a 1 year program at schools like Columbia, GWU, etc. I’m trying to see if that could work out to be a more affordable option. (Especially if I can do a program like this abroad, like in Canada). My parents basically told me that I don’t have to worry about Tulane’s cost, but it will obviously in some way limit the amount of money that they can pay for med school later on. I don’t believe it will be a huge deal though.

@acron611 I wouldn’t be forced to go to NJMS, but it would be a waste to commit to the program and not do it because I would be giving up better scholarships to other schools to do so. Also, most TCNJ students in the program don’t focus on the “pre-med” extracurriculars because they know they have the guarantee to fall back on and because they’re graduating early, so that might leave me at a disadvantage as far as being well rounded. Also I would have to stay at TCNJ for 4 years to receive my degree if I didn’t do the program.

@prezbucky thanks for the advice!! I agree about Tulane probably encouraging me to spend more money, but there also seems to be more opportunity to get a job while I’m there so it might even out a little bit lol!

@ucbalumnus Speaking to other students in the program, I heard it is quite easy to achieve those grades because the students in the 7 year program tend to be on top of the curve in every class. Also, wouldn’t it be difficult to get into medical school without achieving those stats anyway?

Thanks everyone for all your help!! :slight_smile:

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@blossom27 - Congratulations on being a Johnson Scholar at W&L! My son is a rising senior at W&L and also pursuing med school. He has had a wonderful 3 years in Lexington. The science courses and pre-med advising at W&L are outstanding. He knows all of his professors personally and has had undergrad research experiences both at W&L and abroad.

Greek life is big, but all the parties are open and there are many alternative social options if that is not your thing. My son is in a fraternity, but several of his friends are not. Please PM me if you want additional information.

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@blossom27 Yes, you have a point. It would be quite difficult to get in a med school without achieving those stats! As a physician though, going through med school with no intention to practice medicine seems different for sure! Seems like there would be a better path to writing policy/ dealing w public health.Just my opinion !

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Be aware that getting a 3.5 every semester is harder than getting a 3.5 overall over 6-8 semesters.

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^Yes. A 3.0 one semester can be offset by a 4.0 the next, assuming an equal number of credits in both.

Keep in mind that some classes can be harder than you thought they’d be. Two of the classes I thought would be fairly easy – Botany 101 (Plants and Man) and Psych 101 – actually weren’t. In fact, I had a much easier time with a 400-level Psych course, Abnormal Psychology, than I did with that 100-level survey course.

Conversely, there can be pleasant surprises, classes you thought would be difficult but which were easier than expected.

My point is, you can’t take any course for granted. Sure, Nuclear Physics might be harder than Linguistics, but don’t take for granted that the latter will be easy.

So yes, you can take some hard-sounding electives that interest you. You can get some B’s. You can offset a 3.2 semester with a 3.8 the next and maintain a 3.5. Just do not take any course lightly; give them all your best, and you’ll get through the tough surprises and appreciate the pleasant surprises all the more. Most importantly, you will learn.