WashU in St. Louis Admissions Updates for Fall 2027

I quite like Penn, and actually particularly the non-Wharton parts that a lot of other people in certain circles don’t pay much attention to, so I have nothing in particular bad to say about it.

But I do think “more popular” is not necessarily “better”. Again, not bashing Penn, but it has some obvious marketing advantages. It is of course an Ivy. It is located in a major metro area on the Northeast Coast, and indeed is basically right next to both the heart of Philly and the train station that will take you up and down the Northeast Corridor. Finally, Wharton certainly has a very strong brand, and one that happens to align with some recent trends among the highly qualified college bound population.

So in 2024-25, Penn got 65236 total applications, and WashU got 32754 applications, almost exactly half. Does this mean Penn is “better”? Certainly it is more popular. But “better” is not necessarily the same thing, at least not to me.

And that of course means WashU does in fact face a different admissions landscape than Penn.

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To take this further, # of apps is one of the easy ways for a college to manipulate stats. Not suggesting that Penn is guilty of this. I would say that yield less ED, however, measures market power. Sure there is popularity in there like in anything else, but there is a whole lot more than that, too, IMO.

I think this might be true of feederish schools and essentially wealthy applicants. But, I think that the higher application numbers garnered by making an application easier with fewer essays coupled with early action encouraging a few more applications to submit one more to WashU along with their favorite ED school all help to push application volume higher with those that are less “in the know”. This is my very pessimistic take which I don’t fully believe, but I could be convinced to believe.

It’s this very popularity that lets Penn have the lower admissions rate that students seem to value even above ranking. So if WashU can get closer to this level of volume by offering EA and getting several more thousand apps during EA that they would not get RD (because those students got their fav Ivy or east coast liberal arts college ED) then I think they might want to employ this strategy.

ETA: I agree that quality and popularity are not the same.

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So if we were doing this seriously, the first thing we would need to do is actually determine the markets in question. And that turns out to be extremely complicated. There certainly is not just one big market in which students are all able to shop. Indeed, serious analysis of these institutions ends up usually identifying them a operating in multisided network markets. Like, their functions include connecting students and teachers, students and other students, grantors and researchers, researchers and other researchers, recent graduates and established alums, donors and . . . well that’s VERY complicated, and so on.

OK, so unsurprisingly, different prospective students apply to different colleges, and you can see that as at least in part explainable by different students being interested in different mixes of networking opportunities. And then colleges also compete for some of those students with other colleges, because their various other stakeholders all want to network with those students, and the students can only attend one college each.

OK, so if you wanted to seriously to analyze “market power” when it comes yielding admitted students, this would involve looking at what applicants they are admitting, and then who else is actually operating in those markets, and how that goes.

Unfortunately, since these markets are not neatly divided up, but instead overlap, this becomes a problem of enormous complexity to sort out, and in some sense it isn’t even clear what you might be trying to determine with colleges that don’t have that much market overlap.

Speaking of which, Parchment has its head to head revealed preference page, and it will report percentages with error bars. But when it doesn’t have enough data, it indicates that with grey numbers as opposed to red and green.

I just checked, and for Penn and WashU they have it at 50-50 exactly, but they are are grey. Not enough data.

And I think that is about right. Realistically, there isn’t going to be enough market overlap between Penn and WashU to make for a serious relative to market power analysis. Of course I know in certain circles, it sounds like everyone applies to all the US News T25 or whatever, but out in the real world, that’s very rare. Most college bound kids are not applying to any of those, but even among those who do, they are not typically applying to all of them, and then the ones they choose tend to cluster in certain ways.

By the way, even if we could meaningfully determine the relative market power of two of these institutions in a market with sufficient overlap, I’d still resist calling that a measure of which is “better”. I can think of plenty examples of markets in which I shop where a certain brand or whatever obviously has more market power, but I don’t actually think they are better, or at least not better for me.

The basic problem here is this sort of market structure is sometimes known as a differentiated product market. Not every producer offers the exact same thing, the only difference being price. Each is offering its own complicated bundle of stuff. And so even if, say, 75% in some definable market end up choosing A and 25% B, that doesn’t mean the 25% who chose B are somehow missing something the 75% who chose A figured out. It just means that for them, while they were willing to consider both A and B, in the end they ended up preferring the mix offered to them by B.

This is all very sketchy still, but at least it helps define some of the basic issues here. The bottom line is any market analysis would be enormously complex, and not really provide many satisfying “A is better than B” answers anyway. Which is fine, it just means college bound kids need to figure out for themselves what they really want in a college.

Students have wants and needs. Every college is a package. Students apply. Colleges decide. Students attend.

You make some good points. The market is complex, colleges are differentiated products, and no single metric can determine which school is “better.”

But yield less ED still tells us something important: how strongly students choose a school when they are free to choose. It may not be a measure of educational quality. It is a measure of market preference. In a landscape increasingly shaped by ED, that seems like a useful thing to understand.

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ED is also a choice,so I don’t think it’s quite as simple as that. Students are still “free” to choose who to ED to, taking into account that some feel undue pressure from the way ED stats are presented, pressure to switch to ED2 etc. If students need to understand better how they are making that ED choice, I think it would be useful if colleges published the typical % of athletes, legacy, donor etc who make up ED admits.

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I thought I’d share a picture of a student for whom this addition of EA is very appealing. My kid was quite happy to hear about this change. She hopes to have all her apps done by Nov anyway because she is way too busy with dance and school to be working on apps past Nov. if she can hear back earlier than March from the schools she has more time to visit again and figure out which is the final choice.

She has a 4.0 and takes rigorous classes for her school. She has 1580/36 test scores, is a high level dancer, interested in studying one or two more languages as well as something in STEM, maybe physics or biochem. She hasn’t decided in a major yet so loves the fact that WashU encourages exploration and interdisciplinary connections.

She is probably not going to apply to any ivies or top10 LACs because we would be full pay according to most NPCs (except Princeton) even though we definitely don’t feel we can pay 100k/yr. She is pursuing schools that offer merit scholarships to their top acceptances and WashU does offer some competitive but still possible merit scholarships. For this reason she cannot apply ED anywhere.

Right now WashU is at the top of her list, from the research she has done on the school. She loves the size and likes that the students are reported to be happy there and the vibe is friendly and collaborative. She is not interested in big rah-rah sports or a school that is overly focussed on Greek life. For these reasons she is not even considering Vandy or Duke.

If she applies EA and then they pressure her to move to ED 11 or defer her to RD, this will not go over well with her, just knowing my child. I am truly hoping this is not their planned strategy.

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Some are and some are not.

Agree on that.

Also, a college may be a high reach in RD, but less of a reach in ED (or EA if the college offers EA but not ED).

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You/your daughter are like all the people I knew who went to Wash U from my Florida private high school in the 1980s! Some did apply to ivies, got in, and chose Wash U over them bc/o good $$!

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Absolutely. ED can be seen as an attempt to actually restrain market competition to the benefit of the colleges–there is in fact a lawsuit alleging exactly that. Whether or not it is actually illegal, as that lawsuit claims, it certainly has some sort of impact, or otherwise it would not be so popular and promoted.

Non-binding EA, in contrast, should be procompetitive. Unless perhaps it is just an attempt to further push ED, so I do take that seriously as a possibility.

Your post also reminded me that while WashU promises that applying ED won’t affect merit consideration, I encountered quite a few people who were skeptical about that.

So I think that is yet another reason that this new EA could work out great for applicants like your daughter. She will have no reason to worry about this, and WashU will have the opportunity to compete for her with merit if it so chooses.

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My kids’ school doesn’t do that much, and I’m not going into too much detail or obvious reasons; it’s a very atypical private school for several reasons. They DO allow kids with crap GPAs to apply ED to Cornell. I mean, obviously, they tell them it is unlikely, but don’t forbid it or whatever. Also, few kids apply ED in comparison to most comparable schools for a variety of reasons.

There appears to be a real range of school policies on this subject.

There were no formal limits or restrictions at my S24’s feederish school, as reportedly is the case at some other high schools. But the college counselors were not at all shy about discouraging applications they deemed “unlikely” (which is a polite way of saying you don’t have competitive qualifications and we see no reason why they would make an exception to their normal standards for you).

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The skepticism would quiet down if they divulged average merit aid/signature scholarship program opportunities doled out in each round each year.

With that said, I have no reason to doubt what WashU says about equal merit opportunity by round, nor do I expect WashU to be more transparent than any other school regarding merit by admission round.

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Yeah, I don’t trust schools when they say ED doesn’t effect the type of merit they hand out. I have even heard AO’s admit in podcasts that the big money is usually reserved to persuade high stats students to their school. Perhaps they do give merit to an ED student on occasion, but we aren’t chancing that.

I appreciate schools like St. Olaf where they tell you flat out you will get at least 30k/yr merit if you apply ED. I know they are trying to increase their yield rate by hoping more students will ED, but I still respect their transparency. (We love St. Olaf and it’s one of the other schools on her list).

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This is certainly not unique to WashU. Not to derail this thread by discussing other schools but I too have heard the same thing. ED they know you’re locked in so no incentive to reward you with coveted scholarships.

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Grinnell does that too, and I don’t mind it! Again I would think of that as pro-competitive, because now there is in fact a real, known benefit being offered in exchange for what the college is getting from you when you apply ED.

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Yeah; my DD applied ED to another school bc it really was her first choice. Her stats were above their middle 50, and in theory she could have been competitive for merit (though it’s super competitive regardless). We just decided being done early was more important than some unknown chance for merit aid.

FYI, a family member applied ED to Franklin and Marshall this year and was awarded $25K in merit with his admission. Kid had high test scores but not so high grades, so it wasn’t like he was a clear shoo-in. They weren’t expecting it, so very nice surprise!

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I was under the impression that merit was very competitive and only awarded to a very small number of students. Is that not the case?