“The incident just doesn’t square with the grandiose holistic approach to be a student-athlete”. are you kidding? do you think these are guys who were raised in newton,massachusetts and spent summers in the hamptons and cape cod? were going to attend williams college to study literature and take a job at a non profit in Manhattan after college while mommy and daddy supported them…but instead went to u of m on a football scholarship to play football just because they like minnesota in the winter? you are applying a privileged elitist set of rules to them. you maybe against group sex and everything else that seems foreign or unethical to you…that is your opinion . the question is about rape not morals. I personally think sports and frats have no place on a modern college campus and I want people who break the law removed permanently from a school but one should not apply some aloof / lofty concept like a “grandiose holistic approach to be a student-athlete” to male students who were recruited to play football at a large university.
again, I would be terribly saddened if I were to find out my daughter had partaken in that activity and if I had a son who “lined” up for something like that it would make me very uncomfortable and saddened too. but I remove my personal beliefs and morals from these situations and only care about if it was a consensual situation or a case of rape or in this case gang rape.
again do not think for a second I support their behavior, want to see this type of behavior on a college campus or anywhere else. I just think it is important not to think just because we cringe at this behavior we therefore think it must be punished. the police/da declined to prosecute and I do not think anyone is suggesting that they are covering up for the athletes…so I think the athletes should be left alone.
I don’t know much about college sports but have had the impression Coaches forbid all kinds of off-field behaviors as a requirement of being on the team. I thought that true at all colleges, not just the elitist ones? Is it true some colleges expect different standards of behavior from athletes than other colleges? just curious… it wouldn’t seem so to me from all the headlines I read from across the country
of course different schools and programs have different standards …a big ten schooll recruits to win national championships and has players go on to the NFL or NBA. most players are not scholar/athletes.(that is not a secret) sports like football and basketball are big business at many schools like say michigan,albama, LSU etc…
on the other a lot of elitist schools the latest being washington u in st louis are suspending there various teams for lewd behavior.
watch the “U” if you want to understand big time college sports
“are you kidding? do you think these are guys who were raised in newton,massachusetts and spent summers in the hamptons and cape cod? were going to attend williams college to study literature and take a job at a non profit in Manhattan after”
Are you saying only kids from privileged backgrounds can be raised to have a clear moral compass and a good head on their shoulders? That sounds pretty elitist of you.
It doesn’t take an IQ of 130 or more nor spending summers at the country club to know that this was unacceptable behavior.
^ I also didn’t understand the part about expecting Williams College students and athletes having to play in cold weather to have different moral standards, but wading through posts without capital letters or punctuation is like trying to read a computer screen covered in mud
Stanford, St. Paul, Affluenza, etc. show that rich and entitled people can be just as horrible as those from less privileged backgrounds.
I think it is pretty racist and elitist for the school to round up and suspend 10 black students if they were involved in consensual activity. .when someone says “The incident just doesn’t square with the grandiose holistic approach to be a student-athlete” a person who says that is coming from a very different place.and I think it is unfair .morals are morals we all have our own set. but if you think a college football athlete recruited strictly to play football is going to come at the world the same way as many people who are college confidential…you are mistaken… I also think that elitism and racism have been employed against these athletes.
never said rich people can not be really crappy. just do not expect a grandiose holistic athlete/scholar approach from those strictly recruited to play big time sports…and many wealthy elites can,would and do participate in activities like this…but many times mommy and daddy’s lawyers help shield them from persecution by the school. I hope the urban league or naacp takes up their cause.
UMinn being bad at football for a long time has taken many recruits of dubious integrity. That usually comes back to bite you sooner than later. #karma
Not to mention basketball. Place is a cesspool
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/journalism/j6075/edit/readings/minn.html
http://www.startribune.com/gophers-basketball-program-can-t-shed-failure-and-scandal/370880311/
This isn’t a race thing.
The video of the threesome with the underage recruit was sent to at least 26 different people. I’m not sure what race or social class would think this is OK.
What kind of “consensual” activity do you think it is when a dozen or more gigantic men line up to have sex with one woman in the space of about forty-five minutes while she is confined to a single room? Women consent to that sort of thing in crude porn movies, but the actresses get paid for it, and they get breaks and some control during the filming. Maybe some prostitutes would do it for pay, too, but I doubt many. Someone who was profoundly disturbed might consent to it, although in that case I might dispute whether consent actually existed.
I would not dismiss completely the possibility that a woman might consent to this, but the woman involved here insists that she did not consent to it, and honestly I find it hard to understand why anyone wouldn’t believe her. Her lack of consent to the first two men (including the underage recruit) was ambiguous, and I understand why it might be difficult to prosecute them. But it verges on crazy think that she consented to the rest of what happened.
The racial aspect of this case is very upsetting. But there isn’t any race or culture anywhere where women consent to this sort of attack. There are plenty of cultures that condone it, but not ours.
“This isn’t a race thing.”
I don’t know that. There is no such thing as a sexual assault case against black men in America that exists outside the historical context of such accusations.
We don’t know the race of the accuser, but she sought medical help in a county where she knew she had health insurance (likely her home county), which is 0.28% African-American. Odds suggest she is not black.
@hanna, if all those football players were white, asian, whatever, are you telling me you don’t think that it would be investigated and taken seriously? I’m not denying systemic racism in our culture and legal system but what happened and the consequences are not race based IMO.
@californiaaa As a Duke alum, I had mixed feelings when my DS applied to Duke – I know that the university & faculty will turn on him (a white male, who therefore, must be “rich” and “entitled”) in an instant if he is ever accused of anything, even wrongfully. I hope he goes elsewhere. We have refused to give $$ to Duke until Broadhead retires – which means I guess we will start giving again next year…
“What kind of “consensual” activity do you think it is when a dozen or more gigantic men line up to have sex with one woman in the space of about forty-five minutes while she is confined to a single room? Women consent to that sort of thing in crude porn movies, but the actresses get paid for it, and they get breaks and some control during the filming. Maybe some prostitutes would do it for pay, too, but I doubt many. Someone who was profoundly disturbed might consent to it, although in that case I might dispute whether consent actually existed.”
that is over the top and absurd. how can you judge and how can you make such a statement. it may not be your cup of tea. but seriously. what about people into hardcore bondage, or in some circles of the lgbt community where anonymous activity with strangers occurs in public restrooms. do not judge, by all means do not partake…but never judge! I would never be involved in such activity but I also understand in a consenting situation there is no issue. and fyi you maybe surprised who you personally know who has been involved in stuff like this.I bet you know people who are/were active in the swinging… you just maybe unaware of who they are.
2 questions -
- Did any of the parties involved violate UM student conduct rules?
- Did any of the athletes involved violate any team rules and/or rules of their scholarship?
It appears the answer right now to question 1 is yes, given their current suspensions
Question 2 is muddied by the coach’s tweet supporting the players, which you would assume means they did not violate team rules. But the fact that the AD was aligned with the President in statements makes me wonder if #2 is still in play.
The lack of criminal charges is a moot point.
“@hanna, if all those football players were white, asian, whatever, are you telling me you don’t think that it would be investigated and taken seriously?”
I’m not saying that. I’m saying that the “race thing” is built in when 10+ big black guys are accused of raping a (probably) white woman. They’re bearing a lot of historical weight that white players wouldn’t. There may yet be a fair process, but…I can’t agree that there’s no race thing here. It is inescapable.
@Steglitz90 yes because it’s only rich white males that are the subject of unfair treatment in rape allegations. 
Not the black men that get harsher punishment for the same crime, or the victims that are often ignored or harshly judged by society.
In these type of situations almost nobody feels well defended, not just people in your demographic.
I don’t understand this. Most football players at D1 schools ARE scholarship athletes. A Big Ten football team has 105 players and 85 of them are on scholarship. The others pay their own way and if they aren’t going to classes, they are wasting their own money. Are you saying they aren’t ‘really’ students? The graduation rate for Gophers is 90%.
“University of Minnesota student-athletes have again posted an impressive Graduation Success Rate (GSR), the latest in a trend of impressive academic and graduation numbers for Gopher student-athletes. This year’s GSR of 90 percent is two percentage points higher than last year…”
College sports is big business, but not for the students. They get a scholarship, they now get a stipend, and hopefully they’ll get a diploma. If they choose not to graduate, it is not the fault of the university.
“College sports is big business, but not for the students” true however it is not simply a scholarship/stipend if you play football or basketball at a big time sports program you have a lot of stuff in the “win” column… local celebrity status, dreams of pro sports as a career (yes, I know most players do not wind up in the nfl or nba) lots of women interested in you, being on TV etc… and major breakouts become super famous before they even go to the next level. there is a massive draw to play football/basketball in major programs even if you are still a long shot for the pro sports.
there are some crazy stories like this one (med school/nfl at the same time)
http://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/17958/chiefs-laurent-duvernay-tardif-leads-rare-life-as-football-player-future-doctor