<p>Because there is a perception that a homogenous group has group norms that are effective as a protection/safety mechanism. The introduction of “others” can cause a perception/fear that things are going to hell, so more is required to keep kids safe from the boogie-man.</p>
<p>This is similar to an increase in traffic density/drive time = “a lot of angry people on the road” =
</p>
<p>07DAD, in my opinion it’s different today because while there have always been predators, today’s predators seem to have little fear of the repercusions of being caught. Obviously, they do not respect society’s norms. And maybe we “ordinary folks” are at fault, too. Not enough of us take an interest in impressionable young people. From a very young age I recall adults looking out for me when I was out and about town and clearly alone. I speak of those times on the city bus heading to the library as an elementary schooler. Older women of various ethnic backgrounds would engage me in conversations (I guess men didn’t take the bus in those days, LOL). Many bus drivers on my route knew my first name and if I missed a day, they asked me about it the next time they saw me. I sat at the cash register at the small shop owned by my dad’s best friend when I was 11 or 12. As he went to lunch leaving me alone, his only admonition was “don’t give out any change unless it’s for a paying customer.” Again, I can’t imagine allowing Lake Jr. the same experience today because of the “me first” culture we live in wherein it’s okay to exploit someone if you think you can get away with it.</p>
<p>And I believe that’s an explanation for why some parents excuse excessive alcohol use and unruly behavior by their progeny. The points made earlier about the unintended consequences of zero tolerance policies are valid to me as well.</p>
<p>Well, I think those of us who would fight to get our kids out of any kind of long term “public” consequences would mete out consequences at home. I was never in that situation, but I know I would have had it come to that.</p>
<p>I also know parents who were in that situation, and they did significant consequences at home, but they got the kid an attorney. Of course they did.</p>
<p>My own children know never to speak to a police officer without an attorney present, and one time, when a friend was being accused of cheating, my daughter did say she would not speak to the principle without an attorney. Obviously, even at that age she knew a serious “charge” when she saw one. (she was 9! LOL)</p>
<p>but, you know what? If we are going to treat them as adults in this way, we are going to have to expect them to defend themselves this way. JMO</p>
<p>Lake W --I too recall that while out and about as a kid, there were adults who seemed to notice you and be willing to be accessed for or offered help. If you did something that was a no-no, they’d also take action including stopping you and reporting it to your parents. </p>
<p>As much as it pains me, I admit that while I notice, I am hesitant to intervene when the behavior is not acceptable unless it directly impacts me and, even then, I am more likely to report the behavior to the store owner, police etc. than take personal action. The idea of potential liability for strongly reprimanding, much less touching, someone else’s child stops me. It didn’t do that for adults back in my neighborhood growing up.</p>
<p>My Dad’s rule was get in trouble at school and you got in trouble for it when you got home. The parents seemed to support the other adults in authority. Now it seems that “my kid, right or wrong” has taken hold with many upper middle class/upper class parents.</p>
<p>Drinking—</p>
<p>My experience was booze was very much part of growing up in the 1950-60s and early 1970s. At my upper middle class/upper class HS (graduated 1968) we had “the Friday Morning Drinking Club.” College had grain punch benders. Each year we had Texas-OU weekend and literally hundreds of college kids were arrested and thrown in the drunk tank each year.</p>
<p>At least my S had health courses that stressed the dangers/negatives of alcohol/drug use. In the 1960s it wasn’t mentioned. As a matter of my experience it seemed that alcohol was accepted as something that everyone would engage in.</p>
<p>Full disclosure. I’m a 28 year recovering alcoholic who started drinking before I was 13.</p>
<p>Wow, 07DAD, glad you have put this behind you. My young adult DD did drink before legal, but she would raise an eyebrow over anyone drinking before 5 PM or getting plastered.</p>
<p>And I can’t tell you how many times as a kid I heard “well, it’s after 5 o’clock somewhere, so have one.”</p>
<p>I think predators have always been there, we just hear about them a lot more now with the changes in media (web sites, 24 hour cable news, sexual predator maps/alerts etc.)</p>
<p>When my S was 10, I got a call from a neighbor who told me he rode his bike across the street (in front of her car) without looking. Different neighbor told me a year or two ago that he was seen walking down a street past town curfew.</p>
<p>When he was about 3 we lost him. He was playing in one room, I went into the kitchen or something, and when I came back he was gone. We combed the house then went outside and started calling for him…within 2 minutes the entire block was out looking for him. Police, sure, but neighbors first. (As it turned out, he’d crawled into a laundry basket, pulled a towel over himself and gone to sleep. True story.) </p>
<p>Anyhow we still have that kind of neighborhood. And my D had a lemonade stand, and the kids ran around the block (big block with elementary school and playground on it) until dark in summer. As they grew, they could ride their bikes around town. We actually chose this neighborhood which is downtown in a town of 2000, because we wanted them to have some independence, to be able to walk places and play and get around. My S is almost 18 and still doesn’t drive, he can walk to work and he has a ride to school.</p>
<hr>
<p>Re: the original topic, I have both allowed school/society consequences for my kids, and also stepped in to replace those with my own. The zero tolerance thing is crazy. Especially regarding drugs and financial aid. One single experiment with pot can undo years of hard work. I’d do what I could to prevent that if it happened.</p>
<p>I don’t worry about predators, I worry about people driving like maniacs to catch the ferry!</p>
<p>we’ve had a situation at one of my son’s ECS (kids are 11-13) in which parents have been double and triple parking, making dangerous u-turns and even parking on the sidewalk of the school at dismissal time. There is no way to see around these cars to get by safely and I sincerely believe it’s only a matter of time before someone gets hit. I am seriously thinking of calling the commnity liaison at the local precinct and asking them to have a presence. Last week a dad in an Escalade (what else?) parked right, smack in the middle of the sidewalk. which made the kids have to walk in the street between those double parked cars.</p>
<p>
Oh! You think you’re in other people’s heads again! Attributing opinions (dare I say bias) to them, whether based in fact or not. And such a glaring dose of condescension, too. My what a versatile post.</p>
<p>Gotcha! All is now clear.</p>