Wealth, Power, Alcohol and Unruly Teenagers

Parent Cafe
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<p>I think there’s also maybe more perception than fact in our belief that there is more alcohol being injested, more unruly behavior, etc.</p>

<p>I grew up in a small town, with access to three network stations. The nearest local affiliates were in a largish town 60 miles away, on two lane country roads. We subscribed to the local, teeny tiny paper, and a major paper from the largest city in the state, which was a 4 hour drive away. We also subscribed to Time, National Geographic, and The New Yorker. Our exposure to news was nothing compared to what we are bombarded with 24 hours a day, every day, today.</p>

<p>Shoot, within a couple of hours of ANYTHING happening around here, the news is all over Facebook.</p>

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<p>poetgrl–what laws are more stringent today?</p>

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<p>Eastcoastcrazy, you are correct.</p>

<p>In fact the height of alcohol and drug use among teenagers was 1979. The amount used today is significant lower, and the number of those engaged is also significantly lower, as Mini’s posts regularly point out. “The laws have worked.”</p>

<p>The kids are not in nearly the kind of “trouble” they were when the eighties began.</p>

<p>I started high school in the eighties, and I can tell you the entire thing was different back then.</p>

<p>Stevensma-- the one strike mandatory sentencing for drugs, and the Minors in possession laws, are much stronger than they were when we were in high school and college. Heck, the drinking AGE is different for some of you. </p>

<p>the zero tolerance policies at schools is troublesome, on a deep level, and there were no zero tolerance policies, even at the catholic schools, back then.</p>

<p>From the University of Michigan survey, which has been conducted every year since 1975:</p>

<p>In 2009, 37 percent of high school seniors reported use of an illicit drug during the past year, less than the 54 percent reporting use during the peak year 1979.</p>

<p>33 percent of seniors reported marijauna use, less than the 51 percent reported in 1979.</p>

<p>cocaine use, during 2009 was reported at 3 percent, less than one-fourth of the number reporting in the peak year of 1985.</p>

<p>etc…</p>

<p>Drug and alcohol use is significantly down among teenagers today. in 1975-79, nearly 60 percent reported use of drugs and alcohol. In 2009 it was less than 40 percent.</p>

<p>“oh, those kids today.”</p>

84

<p>SteveMA, while I agree with you to some extent on the kids will behave the way you expect them to behave, I think that there are outliers who will always push the limit. For the kids in my Girl Scout troup and Destination Imagination teams I lead/managed for a decade, I would take them anywhere without a concern. </p>

<p>However, DD’s prep school was full of privileged kids who did not follow the rules. We signed the forms you talked about with the threats that kids would be sent home at our expense, but I never saw it happen. It was more of a don’t ask don’t tell policy. One of the biggest things DD learned in HS was that privileged kids don’t have to follow the rules.</p>

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<p>MD Mom-then that is a school issue, not a child issue and the teens were allowed to act however they acted by the school. We have plenty of privileged kids that go on these trips and they are treated just like anyone else. The school followed through on the rules and that makes all the difference–that and the kids have fun and they don’t want to miss out on that for the next year. They are pretty good at weeding out the kids that are not going to follow the rules too.</p>

86

<p>At DD’s school, there were young people who were not welcome to travel.;)</p>

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<p>I agree parenting has changed and in some cases it is almost non-existent. When parents fail to punish inappropriate behavior society steps in and starts legislating punishments which can be wipe sweeping and draconian at times.</p>

<p>When I was in 5th grade a new kid was placed in our class after the Christmas holiday break. Someone (probably one of the alpha males) told him our social studies teacher’s name was Mrs. Bird. Actually her name was Beatrice Brown but she sort-of looked like a bird and we called her The Bird. She always wore bight colors with a clashing color scarf and her hair was usual styled in a high, bushy top-knot. Plus she wore ridiculously high spiked heels. During class the new kid addressed her as *Mrs. Bird * and the entire class started giggling which quickly became a full on LOL. The poor new kid started to cry and Mrs. Brown was not very pleased. The principal made us stay after class and write an apology to Mrs. Brown and a note to our parents explaining why we were late being dismissed. Every kid in the class (I knew) received additional reprimands and some form of punishment from their parents. I had to do my most hated chore (dinner dishes) for an extra week. My best friend had her new record player locked away for several days. The kid across the street who shoveled sidewalks for extra money – still had to shovel but couldn’t keep the money. The wealthiest kid in our class was the son of a Baptist minister – he was also punished plus had to sit in church the following Sunday and here a sermon centered around how he had been disrespectful to a teacher.</p>

<p>Today if kids pulled the same prank there would be no reprimand and no punishment …. * NOT my child * …… * no big deal *.</p>

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<p>Someone asked what laws were less stringent “back then” and more stringent now. </p>

<p>Child endangerment laws were nearly non-existent. The middle and upper middle parents that were post WWII parents were very busy catching up from the lost war years. How you raised your kids was pretty much up to the parents and the prevailing socially accepted treatment of kids by parents was very laissez faire.</p>

<p>Look at California law now.</p>

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<p>At age 11 (in 1961), I had a paper route in Dallas that required me to get up at 4 in the morning every Sunday to throw it and once a month to go door to door to collect for the paper from about half the customers. It was something that had to be done in the evening during the week, because we were told by the route manager not to bother people on the weekends. About a 1/3 of the people would have you come into their home while they got you the money. All of this was done without any parental involvement.</p>

<p>Kids walked to grade school by themselves as part of the mass migration of all aged kids every morning. Since it was only 3/4 of a mile away and across from a shopping center, we also walked up there to go to the Saturday matinee for kids and to buy stuff at the dime store. No parents. Same for the city swimming pool. Same for girls. By early junior high, most parents allowed their kids to go by themselves to one of the 3 or 4 local movie houses on Friday night to hang with the other kids at the theater that had a “kid’s movie.”</p>

<p>In good weather (especially in the summer), the kids (both girls and boys) roamed around in the evening going from street to street to play. No parents. You just were told when “it was time to be home.” </p>

<p>I ranged 3 to 4 miles from home on my bicycle. I’d go play along Turtle Creek in the “secret places” along the shore. No big deal.</p>

<p>On Holloween, by age 8 we went door to door, ate unwrapped food and ranged blocks away without parents. Of course you had to keep an eye out for the older kids because some of them would take your candy, but that was just part of being a kid. </p>

<p>Fourth of July, we had firecrackers (including Cherry Bombs and M-80s). I recall vividly Roman candle wars and catching a neighbor’s tree on fire while shooting bottle rockets at the kids across the street.</p>

<p>Dogs weren’t required to be fenced or on leases. We had and shot B-B guns and bows and arrows and played with yard darts (later banned as I recall). One neighbor liked to get out pairs of boxing gloves and at least 2 or 3 times a year everyone took a shot at punching someone out as part of the “boxing match.”</p>

<p>Little girls ran around and played in the sprinklers without a top. I remember that the yougest girl in the block got really mad when her mother started making her wear a shirt outside to play.</p>

<p>Baby sitters were just some girl usually over 13 or someone’s maid or the maid’s daughter. No background checks or emergency medical training. </p>

<p>By the time I was able to drive (15-1/2) I’d already worked throwing papers, mowing lawns, walking dogs and watering lawns for folks were out of town, sacking groceries, stocking at the drug store and cleaning up apartments after the tenant left. I had my own money and was allowed to spend it as I wanted.</p>

<p>So, we were given a lot of rope. We were not micro managed. </p>

<p>Parenting becomes a lot harder when you believe you have to protect against every possible unpleasant thing that might happen to a child and punish for every infraction.</p>

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<p>Heck, just watch the movie “The Breakfast Club,” which was made in 1984 and you’ll get some idea of the way things are different now, even since the early 80’s. </p>

<p>If you think kids are being punished in school today less than they were being punished when you were a kid, you suffer from “golden day-itis.” Not so.</p>

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<p>07dad summed up my childhood pretty well, and at the time, my parents were considered strict!</p>

<p>The paper route thing still amazes me. I got up and left every day, age 12 in Indianapolis, at 5 a.m. and delivered papers, often in the dark. I collected until 9 p.m. at night, because sometimes it was difficult to find people early in the evening. A boy with better connections got the route in our immediate neighborhood, so mine was the next neighborhood over. 5’2". 100 lbs. No way would I let my D do that, and they don’t even have to collect now.</p>

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<p>I am amazed at my paper route days too. I was delivering alone in the dark, and then was forced to be a bill collector once a week - and carry that money with me. I was 12. The only paper delivery people I see now are adults.</p>

<p>I grew up in NYC (except for the 6 months in suburban NJ when I had the paper route), my kids are growing up in a small town in Ohio. I was wondering the other day, as I was driving my D to yet another after school appointment, how my mom got me to the dentist, orthodontist, vball practice, etc when she worked until 6. Then I remembered…public transportation. I took myself to those appointments on the bus or subway, paid for with my school bus/subway pass.</p>

<p>Around here kids don’t get too much freedom until they drive.</p>

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<p>When I was twelve, I figured out I could make more money in the summer by running a “camp,” then by babysitting for one family at a time. I had a three hour camp every afternoon in our park, and seven mom’s signed up. I did this until I had my first job in a shop. </p>

<p>Now, I would be fined for having a lemonade stand by the side of the road.</p>

93

<p>Did the paper route also, and sold fundraiser candy door-to-door, rang doorbells all over our side of town on Halloween, rode my bicycle for miles on end…all before the age of
12. Wouldn’t dream of letting Lake Jr. do any of that today.</p>

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<p>Our kids have been fortunate that they have grown up in places where they could ride bikes all over town, go trick or treating with just their friends, etc. They walked to school with the neighborhood kids starting in kindergarten.</p>

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<p>Lake W–would you explain why? Is it a perception that there is greater danger now, than when you threw papers? </p>

<p>I would have let my S (born 1988) throw a paper route in the residential area we live in, just like I did, but the newspaper company uses contractors who pick up their papers downtown rather than have route managers distribute them in the neighborhoods and who do massive areas by throwing the papers from the back of trucks. The kid on foot doing only several blocks is not of any interest to them.</p>

<p>As a practical matter, my S could not get a job above the table before he was well into his teens. Big boxes and nationwide stores seem to have a general policy that doesn’t include hiring young.</p>

<p>He was able to get an off the books job pulling new wires for an electrical company who hired only kids from S’s private school whose parents had previously hired the company to do work and only after the parents introduced the complaint that kids could not get scut work jobs in today’s world.</p>

<p>My kid tutored younger boys from his private school starting when he was in middle school. He did so at their house. I did at least know where he was and usually had met one or both parents, but I never checked out the arrangement beyond that. </p>

<p>I let him trick or treat in the neighborhood, but did have him bring home the candy at which point I switched it for stuff I had purchased. I told him about “no one gets to touch his privates” but I refused to tell him that he should categorically distrust people.</p>

<p>Prior to the summer before he turned 7 he asked me “when was he ever going to get a break?” His mon and I both worked and he was always being shuttled to enrichment opportunities throughout the summers. I thought that was a fair question. His mom and I agreed on an “old fashioned” camp in the mountains in Colorado where the kids (coed) do outdoor things, sing songs and NO ENRICHMENT focus. </p>

<p>Fist summer, the camp sent an employee to DFW to accompany the kids. By the next year, he flew alone and the camp picked him up in Colorado Springs. The first 4 summers, his mom and I alternated going to pick him up at the end. After that, he’d fly back on his own.</p>

<p>He wanted to learn to ski. He and I would go to Jackson Hole where he would do ski lessons (he was self driven to learn) and I’d snowshoe, snowmobile into Yellowstone, etc. After classes, he’d ski the mountain for a while (without me since I never learned to ski). The agreement was that when they closed the lift that he used, he had 20 minutes to meet me at the bottom.</p>

<p>I took him and 2 friends to a music club venue when they were 13 to see Hoobastank and some other bands but I stayed. I literally found a place for me to stand, told them I’d be right there all night and directed that they only go into the restroom as a group and if there was anything that seemed troubling to them to come get me. I asked my S later what his thoughts were about how it went. He said that with all the drinking by the over 21 set, it was pretty crazy in the mosh-pit area and that it was about all he thought he’d want to handle, but that they all had a blast.</p>

<p>In the summer of 2003, I took him (age 14) and 2 friend’s to Lollapalooza. I sat with them, but they were free to roam the venue. We had check back times. No problems. I think they were surprised that I was blase about the nudity and pot that was happening. I asked my S later about it. His only comment was that some people look better in just body paint than others.</p>

<p>My point is that “Now” doesn’t have to be completely different than “back then.” I feel that there is a reasonable middle ground.</p>

<p>SteveMA–I get to places like that. It is extremely refreshing.</p>

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<p>It depends on where you live and what the circumstances are. In some communities, 07Dad, things really are different. In my community, the population grew by more than 40%and auto usage more than doubled, but infrastructure had almost no growth. Which means that it is much harder to get anywhere by public transportation and there is so much traffic that road rage is pervasive. As a cautious adult, I’ve been tapped several times and I am completely aware that drivers don’t give a darn if they hit somebody else’s kid, so I don’t let mine wander the streets. It wasn’t like this when I was growing up but it’s the wild west now.</p>

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<p>I’m sure where a person lives does influence attitudes/perceptions.</p>

<p>I actually was intrigued by the idea that increased population density gives rise to a perception of greater risks. According to the US census, Dallas (city) had a population of 434,000 in 1950 and 1.197 million in 2010. The metropolitan area that includes Dallas has 6.371 million in 2010 which is greater than the population of the State of Texas in 1950.</p>

<p>As of the 2010 Census Dallas’ median age was 31.8. The racial and ethnic composition of the population was 28.8% non-Hispanic white, 24.6% non-Hispanic black, 0.4% Hispanic black, 0.7% Native American, 2.9% Asian (0.6% Indian, 0.5% Chinese, 0.5% Vietnamese, 0.3% Korean, 0.2% Filipino, 0.1% Burmese, 0.1% Thai), 0.2% non-Hispanic from some other race, 2.6% from two or more races and 42.4% Hispanic or Latino. Among the Hispanic population, 36.7% of Dallas is Mexican, 1.3% Salvadoran, 0.6% Honduran, 0.4% Guatemalan, and 0.3% Puerto Rican.</p>

<p>When I was growing up, whites were the very, very substantial majority race in Dallas. Dallas (and Texas generally) is and always has been an automobile culture and mass transit/public transportation really has ony been marginally available for 12-15 years and hasn’t really caught on. So, we drove everywhere then and kids drive everywhere now.</p>

<p>In my case, my perception of increased risk due to these factors is minimal at most. As with most parents, I operated on my own perceptions and I viewed the risks as being about what they always had appeared to be.</p>

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<p>

In my case, I am very confident in the data supporting my perception. Cool how that works, isn’t it? As I made very clear, in my community, infrastructure hasn’t kept pace with population growth, which has created some very specific problems. It is for that reason this community has the longest average commute time in the entire nation, which puts a lot of angry people on the road in an area that is generally not intended to be so automobile-dependent. </p>

<p>What I am intrigued by is your presentation of racial data. I wonder why that would have even crossed your mind in this context.</p>

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<p>Skipping over the bicycle and back to the alcohol, to me there is a big.big difference between teen drinking and teen bing drinking. I think bing drinking has increased since when I was in hs/college.</p>

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<p>binge drinking has increased. It’s true. Significantly so.</p>