My mom and dad married in the Catholic church although not my father’s parish. His priest refused to marry them because mom was protestant. She did not want to be responsible for taking him from his church so she found a Catholic priest who agreed to marry them but not at the altar.
A few years later when I was born, she was NOT ALLOWED to attend my baptism in the Catholic church. She waited at home. That is a real head-shaker to me.
I will second the Outdoor ceremony being a red flag. It was for me also but after reading through the posts here, it is apparent that I am just an old fuddy duddy. Seems the Catholic Church can do pretty much whatever it wants if the Bishops ok it. I remember here in Boston when St. Patrick’ s Day fell on a Friday. The local Bishop issued a special dispensation to allow the Boston Irish Catholics to enjoy their corn beef and cabbage. And since everyone is Irish on St. Partick’s day, everyone got to enjoy in the festivities. So much for all those old fashioned Lent season rules.
I still recall a wedding I attended decades ago. Her parents refused to attend and the bride was in tears. They had been dating for years. Never could figure out why her parents refused to come. The couple is still happily married > 30 years later. I can’t understand how one could inflict such pain on their child.
The Catholic Church recognizes a marriage between two Jews by a rabbi as a valid marriage; it is every bit as binding as a marriage between two Catholics by a priest. Should the Jewish couple divorce, the Church would not permit a Catholic to marry either of them without an annulment.
NOT true, at least in all dioceses. My BIL, cradle Catholic, 12 years of catholic school, married a Lutheran in a Lutheran church/ceremony. Divorced. When he went to marry my sister in a Catholic ceremony (the one that took place at the DU Methodist chapel), he asked if he needed an annulment of his first marriage. What marriage? the priest asked. Church didn’t recognize the marriage as a Catholic marriage, so there was nothing to be annulled.
The Queen did not attend Charles’ marriage to Camilla. She did attend the Blessing. She wouldn’t have attended her sister’s wedding to the divorced guy, and while I think she did attend Princess Anne’s second wedding, it was in Scotland. We all know she just attended Meghan’s wedding, even though Meghan had been married before.
There are those who believe they shouldn’t attend weddings or christenings in other faiths. My Episcopalian grandmother almost had a seizure when my sister was baptized catholic (but she was allowed to attend). When my brother was baptized 15 months later, they just took her away for the weekend and didn’t mention it. By the time I was baptized 19 months after that, Nanny was involved to the point that she was rejecting names and suggesting her own choices. Now all this is somewhat ironic in that she married my grandfather, a catholic who did not have permission to marry outside the church so was somewhat ex-communicated until he just returned to the church and no one cared that he’d been married outside the church and had 2 kids who were raised as Episcopalians. My grandfather had a Catholic funeral. My father and uncle both converted to Catholicism. My grandmother is, I’m sure, rolling in her grave.
It IS true. Your BIL’s first marriage was invalid because HE WAS CATHOLIC and was married outside the Church. Marriage by a Catholic outside the Church is invalid. Thus, if a Catholic and a Jew were married by a rabbi, the Catholic Church would not recognize the marriage as valid. However, if two Jews are married by a rabbi or two Protestants are married by a minister (assuming no complications like previous marriages) the Catholic Church recognizes those marriages as perfectly valid.
Should the Jewish couple or the Protestant couple divorce, a Catholic could not marry one of the partners to the Jewish marriage or one of the partners to the Protestant marriage without a determination by the Catholic Church that the first marriage could be annulled.
That’s because your Catholic BIL was in an invalid marriage. He was supposed to marry in the Church and didn’t. As a Catholic, he had that obligation. NonCatholics don’t have that obligation That is why the priest said, “what marriage?” In the eyes of the Church, your BIL was not married.
Catholics in valid marriages have their marriages notated with their baptismal records at the parish where they were baptized. That’s why when a Catholic gets married (validly) they have to provide documentation from their baptismal church. This is a canon law.
As for the former marriage between nonchristians situation described by @Marian , that annulment would likely have been easy, falling under Pauline Privilege. Quite simple and fast. Not at all like the more typical annulments involving Catholics/Christians.
My daughter is getting married in the Catholic church in August. She and her fiance were told that it only counts as a Catholic wedding if it’s in the church. Catholic priests can officiate at other venues, but the marriage won’t be recognized as valid by the Catholic church. There are a lot of other rules that go with this, too. For example, both parties have to be Catholics in good standing.
In the eyes of the law, signing that marriage license with witnesses is what makes the union legal
Apologies in advance if this offends anyone, but all these rules about where someone can/can’t get married,what is/isnt a “valid” wedding or annulment makes my head spin. If Jews were married by a rabbi and got a get (which is a Jewish divorce that is acceptable in the eyes of the rabbis for the individuals tot then remarry), would that be good enough in the eyes of a Catholic priest? If they accept a Jewish wedding as valid, then do they accept a Jewish divorce as valid. Do they accept a marriage of a Catholic to a Jew as valid in the first place, especially if it is not performed in a church or by a priest (if a priest would even perform the ceremony?
@jym626 my Catholic in-laws don’t consider Mr R & I married because we got married outside in a secular ceremony. Definitions seem to vary by church and individual, despite the fact that it’s supposed to be a cohesive religion.
So… another dumb question (apologies)-- are the children of a marriage that isn’t considered sanctioned by the Catholic church considered illegitimate, or are they just not allowed to be considered Catholic? If they wanted to be Catholic, would they have to go through some sort of conversion procedure? I am not Catholic, so this is unfamiliar to me.
H was baptized Catholic. I was baptized Eastern Orthodox. We were never married in any church; only a civil ceremony at the courthouse.
We did not raise either of our children in any religious tradition, however, both kids were baptized Eastern Orthodox. Why, you may ask? Baptized so my MIL would be at peace, and we could avoid the unpleasantness – not worth the fight. Eastern Orthodox because it was easy – the priest would come to the house, and a sibling could stand in as godparent.
One of our kids attended Catholic middle school and Catholic HS, and in college, she converted to Catholicism. It was easy and straightforward for her because she had been baptized Eastern Orthodox. Our marriage, not being married in the church, had nothing to do with her conversion. Record of her baptism was important.
This is why I think what many European countries do makes sense. In the US a religious wedding is also a legal wedding. In some other countries religious and legal are separate. A couple will get married legally at the courthouse, and then if they choose have a religious wedding.
Put in that light, the Catholic rules about divorce don’t seem as strange - getting a divorce only ends the legal marriage - not the Church marriage. People often think Catholics can’t get divorced - that’s not true. It’s just that the Church does not recognize the law’s right to end a marriage blessed by the Church. So a (legally) divorced Catholic is not allowed to get married in the Church until they’ve ended their marriage with a (religious) annulment. In the eyes of the Church they are still married.
I’m often puzzled at why people have such an issue with this - if you want the Church to bless your marriage, then you need to follow their rules, which include having them agree the marriage you entered in has ended in the eyes of the Church, not just the law. If you don’t like the rules, there are other options including a civil ceremony.
@romanigypsyeyes Your H is a baptized Catholic. He married outside the Church. Therefore his marriage to you is invalid. No Catholic priest is going to accept your marriage as valid. That is NOT something about which there is any variation in opinion in Catholicism.
@jym626 A Get is a divorce. Catholicism doesn’t permit divorced persons to remarry. So, a Jew who was married to a Jew by a rabbi and then gets divorced with a Get can not marry a Catholic in the Catholic Church; no other divorced person can either.
The Catholic Church only permits remarriage if the previous marriage is annulled. That requires that there be a determination that a previous marriage was void from the beginning of the marriage so that there was no valid marriage in the first place. Usually (but not always) this involves some reason why the consent of either or both persons to the marriage was not given freely.
So, lets say Rachel and Jacob are both 18 and are from observant Jewish families. Rachel becomes pregnant. Jacob is the father and is pressured into marrying Rachel.He is very bitter about this as it forces him to drop out of school and go to work. The only reason they are marrying is that Rachel is pregnant. Rachel and Jacob eventually split and there is a civil divorce and a Get.
Jacob later wishes to marry someone Catholic and agrees to do so in the Catholic Church. The fact that he has a Get will not enable him to marry in the Catholic Church. If however he is willing to submit to the annulment process, the fact that he was pressured into marrying because of Rachel’s pregnancy means that he did not freely consent to the marriage and the Church would probably say it was therefore not a valid marriage. He could then marry in the Catholic Church.
I hope that helps you understand.
Caution: I’m not a theologian, but this is my understanding.
If a Catholic asks for a legal divorce from a reluctant spouse and later also asks for an annulment, does that automatically mean the marriage was invalid for the party that didn’t want the divorce? That doesn’t seem very nice. What happens to the children of the marriage? If the marriage “never happened” are they considered illegitimate? It would seem the jilted spouse, and certainly the children, followed the rules. If a person entered a Catholic marriage in good faith, it doesn’t seem fair that the church could force an annulment on them.
Are there any religions that don’t recognize Catholic marriages? My husband was raised Catholic but we were married in a different faith. They didn’t seem to care that he’d been married before, but I don’t think it had anything to do with whether or not the first marriage was a Catholic one. The minister never asked. Are there religions that would have cared?
My D is getting married this December. She is an observant Protestant, he is an observant Catholic. They are being married in our church by our pastor and the groom’s bishop will assist and bless. In that diocese/church, it is considered a valid marriage because they are being married in a church and will be required to go through the pre-cana process and fulfill the other requirements of the diocese/parish. They are also required to attend a natural birth control class, about which I almost fell on the floor.