<p>Since it seems that medical school acceptance has more to do with the caliber of student than the ranking of the college, I’m wondering which schools are the most supportive of their pre-meds. I’d rather not have to deal with a hyper-aggressive weed-out program that ensures that a lot of pre-meds never apply to med school so that the college can maintain a high acceptance rating. I also don’t want to deal with super impersonal advising; I’ve heard some schools’ advising is basically whatever they have on the website. Also, I don’t want to post my stats, so I’ll say that the highest reaches I’ll be applying to are Rice, Duke, and WUSTL, so any info about those schools and easier schools to get into would be most appreciated.</p>
<p>Duke is well known for good pre med advising. Wash u has good advising period.</p>
<p>Are you a junior?</p>
<p>Well, it looks like you’ve got good reaches. What are your matches and financial safety schools?</p>
<p>Yeah, I’m a junior. At the moment my matches/safeties include Texas A&M, UT Austin, Bama, Baylor, Oklahoma University (all of these I would definitely be accepted and all but UT have good scholarship options; however, I probably won’t apply to all of them). I’ve also been considering USC, Emory, maybe Vanderbilt.</p>
<p>“I’d rather not have to deal with a hyper-aggressive weed-out program that ensures that a lot of pre-meds never apply to med school so that the college can maintain a high acceptance rating. I also don’t want to deal with super impersonal advising”</p>
<p>-I am not aware of any program that is NOT “hyper-aggressive weed-out”. From my D’s experience at state college I have concluded that ALL of colleges are “hyper-aggressive weed-out” in regard to pre-med track. Specifically, good number of Honors students (some valedictorians form private HS with “5” on AP exams) did NOT survive very first Bio that they were recommended not to skip despite of AP credit. Some of those who did survive, have changed their major while others have continued being very challenged in all other Bio classes as well as Orgo and Physics.<br>
On the other hand, pre-med advising was top notch, in regard to both quality of advising, very personal and accomodating and in respect of timely completing everything and way ahead of some other colleges (according to some CC posts).</p>
<p>So, here is my take on D’s experience at state college that resulted in several Med. School acceptances that were beyond our expectations.</p>
<p>* I’d rather not have to deal with a hyper-aggressive weed-out program that ensures that a lot of pre-meds never apply to med school so that the college can maintain a high acceptance rating. I also don’t want to deal with super impersonal advising; I’ve heard some schools’ advising is basically whatever they have on the website.</p>
<p>At the moment my matches/safeties include Texas A&M, UT Austin, Bama, Baylor, Oklahoma University (all of these I would definitely be accepted and all but UT have good scholarship options *</p>
<p>Sounds like you are a likely NMSF from the above list.</p>
<p>I can speak to Bama since I have a pre-med student there. Bama is one of few publics that does do a Committee Recommendation package for pre-med students. </p>
<p>The Director of Pre-Health Advising told me last week that when their students have a minimum of a MCAT 29 and a GPA of 3.6+, that they have an 80-85% chance of American MD med school acceptance. He said that their OOS students even have a higher acceptance rate. </p>
<p>Personally, every pre-med student that I know at Bama has been accepted to at least one MD American med school. Of course, I don’t know all of the pre-med students, but I know a good number. I think the Advising and Committee Recommendation does help with all of this. </p>
<p>I know that the pre-med advising team at Bama is very active. I am on their email list, so I get all of their correspondence. They are regularly organizing various things…from guest speakers, to research opps, to whatever.</p>
<p>Bama has a brand new mega-sized Science & Engineering Complex. Bama is just completing Phase III of this huge complex. Phase IV begins this summer. It truly is amazing and very state of the art. </p>
<p>The buildings marked in blue of this arial pic are the buildings of the new Complex.<br>
[Science</a> quad building approved | TuscaloosaNews.com](<a href=“http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20100409/NEWS/100409617?p=all&tc=pgall]Science”>http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20100409/NEWS/100409617?p=all&tc=pgall)</p>
<p>Here’s a small view of a segment of the Complex…obviously, the Complex is too big for one pic…</p>
<p>[Earmark</a> loss won’t halt construction | TuscaloosaNews.com](<a href=“http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20110116/NEWS/110119728]Earmark”>http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20110116/NEWS/110119728)</p>
<p>While I would NOT say that Bama is a “hyper-agressive weed out” place, the fact remains that any school that is strong in math and sciences is going to naturally have a “weed-out” situation. Some pre-med students find themselves not doing well in Gen Chem or Orgo or whatever…and the handwriting is on the wall. But that doesn’t translate into “hyper agressive weed out”.</p>
<p>There are a few ways in which weed-out can occur.</p>
<p>1.) Changing Minds. Medical careers are brutal. As students learn more and more about it, they gradually become dissuaded. Too, many high school students don’t know much about careers – they think generically in terms of medicine, law, or business when the reality is that there are hundreds of thousands of different jobs. As they learn more, they often choose one of these other careers instead.</p>
<p>2.) Self-Screening. Many students find that they won’t be up to par for medical school. This is nobody’s fault. Medical school is hard to get into. Take the MCAT, for example – the average score for eventual students is something like the 80th percentile among all test-takers. If you walk out of test day with a 23 on the MCAT, you’re not going to medical school. That’s nobody’s fault, and it’s certainly not your school’s. The same sort of process can happen with grades.</p>
<p>3.) Committee Screening. A very small number of schools will actually choose not to let you apply to medical school even if you wish to despite factors #1 and #2.</p>
<hr>
<p>When MiamiDAP says that “all” schools are super-aggressive weed-out, she must be including factors 1 and 2 in that, because very very few schools aggressively use element #3.</p>
<p>It’s sounding more and more like every pre-med program is the same.</p>
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</p>
<p>That’s by and large the case, and even if it’s not–it’s WAY MORE what you make of it and how you take advantage of the available resources than it is about where has the best program. By the time you get to college no one’s going to hold your hand–you’re going to be responsible for doing all the things you need to do to be a great premed and eventually win admissions to a medical school, if you still want to, four years later. Great advising helps a lot. Great classes, great profs, great community resources help a lot too. But there’s a pretty good chance that you’ll be able to find all those things at your school regardless of where you go.</p>
<p>Which is why the overwhelming advice on this forum is to go to the school where you feel the most comfortable that also makes the most financial sense. It’s just plain irresponsible to graduate from undergrad with considerable debt when less expensive options are available. Save your money for medical school!</p>
<p>You’ll probably be able to forge your own path. Good luck!</p>
<p>*It’s sounding more and more like every pre-med program is the same. *</p>
<p>Well, in many ways they are…</p>
<p>Every pre-med program suggests that students take about the same classes because that is what med schools require.</p>
<p>Many pre-med programs also recommend taking a few extra courses because they know that some med schools require/recommend that their students take those courses.</p>
<p>Colleges aren’t each offering “different” Bio, Chem, Orgo, Cal, or Physics classes. there are standards…and schools often use the same books. </p>
<p>the differences can be in advising, whether the school does Committee Letters, and whether the school has a harsh grading curve because it has a lot of very competitive pre-med students.</p>
<p>"When MiamiDAP says that “all” schools "</p>
<p>-I just assume that if all science classes at state college were very challenging to the very top kids in Honors program with some of them not surviving the very first Bio class (known as weed out), then these type of classes are extremely challenging everywhere. My own D. (graduated at the top of her HS class - private prep HS with 100% going to 4 year college) was shocked by challenges in her first Bio that used the same textbook as her HS Bio, which did not help much.<br>
Quality of pre-med advising seems to be different from school to school based on posts here on CC.</p>
<p>*"When MiamiDAP says that “all” schools "</p>
<p>-I just assume that if all science classes at state college were very challenging to the very top kids in Honors program with some of them not surviving the very first Bio class (known as weed out), then these type of classes are extremely challenging everywhere. My own D. (graduated at the top of her HS class - private prep HS with 100% going to 4 year college) was shocked by challenges in her first Bio that used the same textbook as her HS Bio, which did not help much.
*</p>
<p>I agree…those Bio, Gen Chem, Orgo, and even Calculus classes can be real “eye openers” for students who went to high schools that had massive grade inflation, little homework, and easy tests. </p>
<p>However, there still seems to be kids that “haven’t gotten the message” that a TOP GPA is needed. I have an aquaintance whose D is pre-med at another U. Her D is getting Bs and Cs and a few A’s. She’s a junior. They seem to have no idea that her GPA is not anywhere it needs to be for med school. All they can focus on is, “she really wants to be a doctor.” I guess the advising at her college is truly lacking.</p>
<p>*3.) Committee Screening. A very small number of schools will actually choose not to let you apply to medical school even if you wish to despite factors #1 and #2.</p>
<hr>
<p>When MiamiDAP says that “all” schools are super-aggressive weed-out, she must be including factors 1 and 2 in that, because very very few schools aggressively use element #3. *</p>
<p>hey…I always thought MiamiDAP was the dad…I stand corrected! 
(don’t know why I thought that.)</p>
<p>Wow…I can’t imagine a school saying, “We are not even going to LET you apply.” Wow…sounds almost unAmerican.</p>
<p>be wary of interpolating data of public med schools.</p>
<p>'Bama, for example, interviews 8% of OOS applicants, but nearly 60% of instaters. Acceptance rates: 5% OOS and 46% instate.</p>
<p>So, even tho Bama’s reported acceptance rate maybe xx%, it is worthless data point if you are an OOS applicant. A question to ask (and receive a response in writing) then, is whether four years as a NM student will garner instate benies on your grad school app.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s what Special Masters’ Programs are for. High risk-high reward. But yeah, eventually, one has to realize the dream ain’t happenin.</p>
<p>
Even really great schools typically can’t afford personal advising for freshmen. There’s just too many of them. Their role is mostly in the context of the application process itself.</p>
<p>*I guess the advising at her college is truly lacking. </p>
<p>Even really great schools typically can’t afford personal advising for freshmen. There’s just too many of them. Their role is mostly in the context of the application process itself.*</p>
<p>BDM…you may have overlooked that I mentioned that she is a junior. I would think at that point, she should have been told something…either face to face or at least in some kind of “general message to all pre-med students” that a GPA of 3.6+ is really needed for non-URMs. At this point, even if she got “staight A’s” I don’t think she can bring up her GPA to an acceptable level…it’s currently sub 3.0.</p>
<p>That said, I totally agree that at the freshman level, advising is not going to be much more than “general messages to all pre-med students”. I know that at my kids’ school, there is a pre-health advising team, but the “senior advisors” only deal with juniors and seniors.</p>
<p>*'Bama, for example, interviews 8% of OOS applicants, but nearly 60% of instaters. Acceptance rates: 5% OOS and 46% instate.</p>
<p>So, even tho Bama’s reported acceptance rate maybe xx%, it is worthless data point if you are an OOS applicant. A question to ask (and receive a response in writing) then, is whether four years as a NM student will garner instate benies on your grad school app.
*</p>
<p>I think you are confusing data. I didn’t say that Bama said that 80% of their pre-med students get accepted to UAB medical school or even go to UAB. I wouldn’t say that at all. I said US MD med schools. Many of Bama’s students are attending other med schools…Tulane, Emory, USA, Vandy, Duke, SLU, and some are at ivies.</p>
<p>Also, I said that OOS students at Bama had a higher acceptance rate into US MD med schools. I didn’t say anything about UAB.</p>
<p>“I agree…those Bio, Gen Chem, Orgo, and even Calculus classes can be real “eye openers” for students who went to high schools that had massive grade inflation, little homework, and easy tests”
-Absolutely not the case with my D’s HS. D. was the only one graduating from her HS with 4.0uw, I can hardly call it “massive grade inflation”. She has achieved it by working extremely hard. In fact, she mentioned that she was much better of than lots of others, she was hired by Gen. Chem prof because he also recognised she she was prepared much better. When I mentioned challenges in science classes at state college, I also mentioned about top kids primarily from private schools in college Honors program (qualification: ACT=32+, top 2% of HS class).<br>
I heard the same from another top caliber kid who is in Pharm program (freshman UG yet) at local off ranked college on full tuition Merit scholarship. Huge eye openner also.<br>
If one is thinking to slack off for 4.0 as pre-med, pre-pharm,…engineering at state college, sorry to dissapoint, you will not have a chance.</p>
<p>*“I agree…those Bio, Gen Chem, Orgo, and even Calculus classes can be real “eye openers” for students who went to high schools that had massive grade inflation, little homework, and easy tests”</p>
<p>-Absolutely not the case with my D’s HS. D. was the only one graduating from her HS with 4.0uw, I can hardly call it “massive grade inflation”.*</p>
<p>Oh, I wasn’t talking about your D at all. </p>
<p>Where I find a lot of grade inflation in high school is where kids have modest test scores, but they have a large number of 4.0s. Those kids get to college and get shocked.</p>
<p>This has been extremely helpful, thanks, y’all. I’m certainly not planning on slacking off in college, but I think I have a better picture now of how to optimize my success.</p>
<p>I mean, the talent spread across American high schools is very vast. If you go to Brearly or Collegiate or Exeter, even if you’re in the bottom of the class there you’re going to find college a cakewalk.* If you go to Stuyvesant or Montgomery Blair’s magnet program, there’s a more heterogeneous talent pool – some of the kids are going to cruise through, some are going to find it a little tougher. And if you’re at most other high schools, college is going to be a step up – sometimes a large step, sometimes a small step.</p>
<p>**My high school’s alumni “What is college like?” panel was famously filled with kids who would come back crowing about how easy college was. The only exception? The kids who went to MIT. They all came in exhausted and stressed.*</p>
<hr>
<p>Addendum: This is especially true for kids who worked very hard during high school. I remember one premiere college’s admissions officer visited my high school to give a talk. Paraphrased very loosely, his point was:</p>
<p>“Look, this is a moot point, because nobody ever tells us enough information to figure this out. But hypothetically speaking, let’s say we have two students. One consistently gets A-'s while slacking off, and one student absolutely kills himself getting those A-'s. We’d rather have the slacker. The kid who’s killing himself has already maxed out his potential. He gets to us and he’s not going to have any more room to grow.”</p>