What are the Lifetime Advantages of Attending Top Colleges

Parents Forum
501

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<p>With all due respect to your experiences, let’s make an attempt to base statements on facts, shall we?</p>

<p>Here’s an example of a fact: Nearly 60% of the incoming Class of 2010 at Princeton will be on financial aid.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2006/05/12/news/15614.shtml[/url]”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2006/05/12/news/15614.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>The eating clubs - despite criticisms - are hardly “elitist” either. With 75% of the school willingly participating in them, it’s fairly hard to be. As for expenses, the difference in price is not so great as to be a great burden on the vast majority of students, regardless of their socioeconomics status. For those still uncomfortable, Princeton has, and is expanding, it’s rescol system.</p>

502

<p>I went to a state school and my brother went to Harvard. Our parents were first generation - and our income was on the low end (not quite poor though). We are both doing very well financially and successful in our careers. If you met us at a party, I don’t think you could pick out who went to the Ivy. I don’t think you need an ivy to be successful or to get comfortable mixing with the wealthy.</p>

503

<p>“I don’t think you need an ivy to be successful or to get comfortable mixing with the wealthy.”"</p>

<p>Of course, that’s true. However, if one selects a college to deliberately avoid being around the wealthy, one isn’t likely to ever become comfortable being with them.</p>

<p>It is important to use college to get outside of one’s comfort zone. There’s a lot of forgiveness for not knowing things in college. Afterward, though, when one is doing things like applying for jobs, there isn’t as much forgiveness for someone who is uncomfortable in certain settings or lacks sophistication.</p>

504

<p>“However, if one selects a college to deliberately avoid being around the wealthy, one isn’t likely to ever become comfortable being with them.”
Agreed. But I think you can find plenty of wealthy people at state universities. My state school was filled with students with fancy cars and Caribbean vacations. Getting a bargain I guess…</p>

505

<p>Class consciousness is horrible, and an attitude of failure. Where you grow up has nothing to do with what you become, if you choose to take full (meaning 100% responsibility) of your destiny. I have underwent many problems including financial difficulties, problems between parents, problems between myself and parents, frustration in general at many things in life.</p>

<p>While people may be richer than me and come from better backgrounds, I’m proud to have struggled and have started my success from the bottom-up: to set myself as an example to everyone and inspire everyone, and a belief that you can even change things that are potentially unchangeable (parent’s relationships, etc.)</p>

<p>A success through these ordeals leads to a person with empathy, character, and quality. A person who seeks to shy away from certain groups due to social classes, at whatever level, will never break through.</p>

<p>Bill Clinton lived in a very unstable family. Yet he maintained a positive attitude as he could, and didn’t exclude himself to certain social groups. He interacted well with virtually everyone.</p>

<p>To whoever posted the message I am referring to, I must say one thing: Surround yourself with the successful and high-powered people that you strive to be. Don’t think yourself as anyone special or “different” either. Think of yourself as one of the many people in this world who have struggled to achieve what you have become, and think of the struggles, rewards, and life ahead, and also understand that everyone at a certain point will encounter a personal crisis, and will have to deal with it.</p>

<p>In the end, remember that aggressiveness, confidence, and character will bring about success.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

506

<p>Hereshoping wrote:
“Wait, I thought soozievt recently said that you can get more money from the top schools (such as Brown and NYU) and that state schools don’t give much merit aid? I am thoroughly confused.”</p>

<p>Just to clarify, I didn’t say you could get more money from top schools vs. state schools. One, I said it was POSSIBLE. Two, I wasn’t comparing to STATE schools per se. I was saying that one should not rule out applying to schools that cost more than other schools (not refering to top, Ivy, state, non state, etc) because SOME more expensive schools, particularly some privates, sometimes are able to give a better aid package so that the end result is that the more expensive school doesn’t end up more expensive and in some cases, may be cheaper. Some schools have more resources and promise to give need based aid. All I can say is that my D’s aid package at Brown is good. Then, I mentioned that while NYU is a very expensive school and was one of the most competitive or top BFA programs my D got into (no rankings exist however), it also was the best scholarship (which was merit based, though need affected the amt.) of all her schools. As an aside not related to her aid, she also was selected a Tisch Scholar which includes free trips, including one overseas. While I did compare it to the scholarship that another well regarded BFA gave her (Penn State), my point was not about state schools, though my guess is that PSU doesn’t have the same money available to give for merit scholarship as a private but that was not my point. As far as IN State U…ours gave a full ride to D1, so none of her schools compared in that regard…(however, she hadn’t planned to even apply there as the school, while very good, didn’t fit her college criteria).</p>

<p>I’m suggesting that applicants not necessarily rule out more expensive schools because sometimes, they may get better aid there and it may not be more expensive in the end.</p>

507

<p>NSM, I’m still dirt poor and struggling under a mountain of student loans. I do believe, though, that I’ll probably end up becoming very rich in the next 10-20 years. I wonder if the belated wealth would be much consolation.</p>

<p>Yes, I think it helped me to adjust to more affluent environments; for one thing, because I was the first to attend college from my family, I didn’t even contemplate any type of graduate education while I was at college. Eventually, I felt comfortable enough to try graduate school (a professional type.) Today, I feel “upper-middle class”, at least psychologically, if not financially. I enjoy perusing high-brow literature and humanities, etc. in my spare time.</p>

<p>If anything, I’m way more sophisticated than the vast majority of people. Even at college, no one believed I came from a very poor family unless I explicityly told them. I was a very cultured person and absorbed the upper-class culture fairly quickly. The discomfort was more extreme in my case vis-a-vis other poor students because I was VERY poor. It wasn’t like, “oh, so you’re a Social Register, my parents are ordinary teacher and nurse.” My family was very poor (less than $20,000 annual income about 20 years ago.) in a way that my peers could not even conceive.</p>

<p>Yes, today, if I had enough money, I may even fit in perfectly in London society. So I have no doubt I’d fit in with the wealthy once I make enough money.</p>

<p>I think, though, that some poor kids, however, are traumatized long-term by these two thoughts:</p>

<p>1) that no matter how smart they are, how hard they work, how successful they become, they would not equal some of the people they met at the Ivies</p>

<p>2) for some, their traditional work ethic might suffer: why should I work so hard in my life when I know many people who lead high lives on inherited wealth without ever having to work?</p>

508

<p>"
I think, though, that some poor kids, however, are traumatized long-term by these two thoughts:</p>

<p>1) that no matter how smart they are, how hard they work, how successful they become, they would not equal some of the people they met at the Ivies</p>

<p>2) for some, their traditional work ethic might suffer: why should I work so hard in my life when I know many people who lead high lives on inherited wealth without ever having to work?“”</p>

<p>Those things may be possible, but I think that the Ivies in their screening process look for people – rich and poor – who have the confidence to handle their environments. No matter how wealthy a student is, the student still has to have the confidence to be able to handle being around a lot of students who are likely to be more talented or intelligent in at least some areas than any individual student is.</p>

<p>Only people who would become excited about and flourish in such an environment are sought.</p>

<p>Consequently, students who become tongue tied at interviews probably don’t get into Ivies – even if they are extraordinarily brilliant. The colleges don’t want students who’ll commit suicide or flunk out because they get so intimidated by the other students there.</p>

<p>In my own life, I see each day how some people can rise above their low income background. My husband grew up in the ghetto and was the first person in his immediate family to go further beyond 10th grade. His parents were blue collar workers.</p>

<p>He’s now a college professor. He gets along well with people of all economic backgrounds, and I have never seen any evidence that he has avoided situations for fear of being around people whose backgrounds were wealthier than his. By choice, he’s not an Ivy grad (turned down an Ivy grad school for a public university that was better in his field), and he’s also proof that people from poor backgrounds can learn sophisticated skills in a variety of college atmospheres, not just at Ivies.</p>

509

<p>Amnesia,</p>

<p>You get Princeton alumni connections from tiger-net (the Princeton portal) and from the big book of alumni with jobs and locations and email addresses. It’s really easy.</p>

510

<p>dstark, My only problem with ascknowledging the club aspect is that it is an oversimplification of the experience, and the ivy naysayers were saying that the main difference was the club aspect.</p>

<p>I would never say it isn’t there, because it is-- and it is a benefit-- but I have taken pains to explain that I did not choose my school for that reason, and I got a great deal more out of my college than a network. </p>

<p>I called it a sticking point because it was the only point you made in your earlier post that had any credence.</p>

511

<p>Northstarmom’s city sounds just like mine Most of the top students here (from private or public high school) aspire to the state publics because if they’re a good enough student the tuition is free, basically, and the local connections are what they want. Sometimes a counselor will force them to apply to an Ivy to see if they can get in, and they do, but they don’t go. They want to go where all their friends from high school are going, and they’ll be coming right back here after graduation anyway. I thought college was supposed to be for NEW experiences but that’s not the way they look at it.</p>

512

<p>“Northstarmom’s city sounds just like mine Most of the top students here (from private or public high school) aspire to the state publics because if they’re a good enough student the tuition is free, basically, and the local connections are what they want. Sometimes a counselor will force them to apply to an Ivy to see if they can get in, and they do, but they don’t go. They want to go where all their friends from high school are going”</p>

<p>Has it been always this way at your city or is this a new trend?</p>

513

<p>Let’s say that going to an elite school is a life changing experience that just can’t happen anywhere else.</p>

<p>It becomes easy to see why there is such a frenzy to get into the elite schools.</p>

<p>What happens to the kids that work incredibly hard, and don’t get into the elite schools? Or can’t afford them? Or for some reason just can’t go to an elite school?</p>

<p>They have been told that going to an elite school is a life changing experience and now they are not going to get this. What a great message we are sending these kids. Sorry, you are going to miss out. You’re not going to get this experience and now your whole life is going to be negatively affected. What a slippery slope.</p>

<p>I prefer to tell kids that they have great abilities and with a little work they will be a success no matter which school they go to.</p>

<p>But that’s just me.</p>

<p>SBmom, you wrote, “I called it a sticking point because it was the only point you made in your earlier post that had any credence.” </p>

<p>My answer to this… " :)"</p>

514

<p>Now I am really really tired following this thread.</p>

515

<p>So, dstark, why is your D going to what we both agree is an elite school?</p>

<p>For myself, I don’t claim that what was “life-changing” for me would necessarily be so for someone else. When I left the LAC I started at, I was throwing away theo opportunity to spend my junior year at Oxford and a good shot at winning one of the largest writing prizes in the world when I graduated. I was that unhappy with the day to day level of discourse in my classes and life there in general. Another student would have thought I was crazy and run with those things.</p>

<p>At Michigan, I was immersed in Honors English classes with the same 30+ students for two years and had to work much, much harder to keep my head above water. No junior year abroad, and some nice writing prizes, but a fraction of what was available at the other school.</p>

<p>Both experiences could be life-changing; the one I chose was the one which as best for me.</p>

516

<p>An amusing story. I have a friend who is a delightful person and attended Dickenson College. Her mother is a Wellsley College alum and her father is a Princeton alum I think. I first met them briefly at a cocktail party and her mother eventually wove college into the conversation. She quickly stated, “I went to one of THOSE colleges, Smith”. As I acknowledged what a fine college Smith is her husband had what seemed to be a slightly uncomfortable look on his face. </p>

<p>Several years later we met at a picnic and she did not seemed to recognize me. Well you guessed it, she quickly and deftly wove college into the conversation and blurted out that she went to one of THOSE colleges, Smith. Anticipating this and realizing that they lived out of state, I replied that I had friends whose daughter also went to Leslie Smith School of Cosmotology. “Oh no, I went to Smith College near Boston.” “Gosh, I replied, I can’t say I ever heard of that college” as a smile crept accross her husband’s face.</p>

517

<p>“So, dstark, why is your D going to what we both agree is an elite school?”</p>

<p>She’s the boss. :)</p>

<p>Garland, I liked reading your story. Interesting decision you made. It was a different time then, but did you visit that first school before you enrolled?</p>

518

<p>Good answer!</p>

<p>I did visit, but with no clue on how to evaluate a college. Got waitlisted at my first choice school (stats eons higher than their averages, but no ECs-i was working thru hs to help my widowed mom. Also, I and needed a lot of FA). The school I went to gave me a creative writing scholarship and other merit money. I did a poor job of figuring out better alternatives, and my mom was in no position to help, having gone to Queens College which was like four more years of high school to her.</p>

<p>Interestingly, she made the decision to support my transfer even though it meant mucho loans for both of us because her grandmother had promised throughout her childhood to pay for her to go away to school, but took it back at the last minute. Long story, but her parents couldn’t possibly have swung it, and the grandmother definitely could have. Mom was a valedictorian who’d worked very hard and really felt she had little to show for it. Therefore, she wanted it to be different for her own kids. That’s why I feel that I will do whatever I can to let my kids go wherever they want and have worked to achieve.</p>

519

<p>“Interestingly, she made the decision to support my transfer even though it meant mucho loans for both of us because her grandmother had promised throughout her childhood to pay for her to go away to school, but took it back at the last minute.”</p>

<p>It’s too bad your mom’s grandmother did this. What a memory to leave your mom and you.</p>

<p>" Long story, but her parents couldn’t possibly have swung it, and the grandmother definitely could have. Mom was a valedictorian who’d worked very hard and really felt she had little to show for it. Therefore, she wanted it to be different for her own kids. That’s why I feel that I will do whatever I can to let my kids go wherever they want and have worked to achieve."</p>

<p>I understand.</p>

520

<p>Originaloog, I loved your story.</p>