<p>I am a rising senior in high school. I have really debated between going into medicine, law, or teaching. Currently, I am on my “I wanna be a professor” stage. lol I was wondering, what are the most competitive fields to get a masters or PhD? I am looking into history, anthropology, IR, or political science. Also, does it matter what one major in for undergraduate? Could I be an anthropology major but pursue history in graduate school? I know, I am filled with inquiries. I am somewhat ignorant of the process so thank y’all for some MUCH needed information. Good day! :)</p>
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<p>[The</a> Harvard Crimson :: News :: Ph.D.s Ditch the Lab](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=521323]The”>http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=521323)</p>
<p>You’re welcome.</p>
<p>Since the above talks about science majors and since there is no comparable industry for History, Anthropology, etc, PhD’s, where they say industry you should probably read Starbucks.</p>
<p>well damn…I guess it’s law or medicine for me!! haha I’m interested in everything so it really isn’t much of a problem. I feel sorry for people who are extremely passionate about one subject and want to teach it. When even a Harvard PhD is no guarantee for a job…life is abysmal.</p>
<p>^ I think you need to wait a while before you start looking at career options. You are all over the place, and all three of those fields are vastly different from each other. It’s good to have a goal, but don’t just chase prestige.</p>
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<p>My opinion is just the opposite: I actually think the OP should ‘chase’ prestige, as prestige is marketable. You can leverage prestige into a decent job. Maybe not an academic job, but a decent job nonetheless. Sad fact is that there is no guarantee that you will obtain an academic placement - a sentiment seconded by the Crimson article above - so it behooves you to obtain a degree from a school whose brand name you can market to private employers. As the Crimson article discussed, the guy who got his PhD at Harvard but couldn’t find an academic placement nevertheless obtained a 6-figure strategy consulting job. Not a bad consolation prize. It’s hard to do that if you obtain your PhD at a no-name school, even one that is highly rated in your discipline. For example, you probably won’t have opportunities for lucrative jobs in strategy consulting or investment banking with a PhD in anthropology from the University of Arizona, despite the program being one of the highest ranked anthro programs in the world, for that school doesn’t have a powerful brand name that can be leveraged. </p>
<p>We live in an uncertain world where you simply don’t know whether your desired job will actually be available to you. Hence, it is entirely rational and risk-averse to choose a flexible degree that can be exploited in multiple ways.</p>
<p>In terms of a paycheck, yes, perhaps chase prestige. In terms of a satisfying life, then no, find out what you really want to do, and then get there. Of course, it depends what the OP wants out of life.</p>
<p>There are no satisfying lives in homeless shelters (except for a few staff workers).</p>
<p>Employers will only pay you to do their thing, not yours. </p>
<p>The number of people who are successful “followng their muse” is so small as to be statistically negligible. The press coverge these lucky few get distorts perceptions of their absolute numbers.</p>
<p>Somewhere between total sellout to “the man” and starvation is a happy place where you can do something you find tolerable or even enjoyable and still earn a living. Good luck to you in finding that place.</p>
<p>A prestigious degree facilitates any endevour.</p>
<p>“most competitive fields for grad school”? Although this is a very silly question and shows you have no understanding about what grad school is about, but I can tell you the answer to that silly question is a no brainer: Harvard Med, CalTech/Stanford Engineering, Yale Law</p>
<p>good luck</p>
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<p>The implicit presumption is that you actually have the opportunity to do what you really want, which at the moment for the OP seems to be becoming a professor. Yet as demonstrated in this thread’s progression, not everybody gets to do that. Even earning a PhD from a top school doesn’t guarantee that you’ll garner an academic placement. As another example, I want to be a Major League Baseball player Yet I conceded long ago that I simply don’t have the talent.</p>
<p>Since many (probably most) people don’t actually get the opportunity to do what they truly like, what a prestigious degree allows you to do is transition to a second (or third, etc.) best career.</p>
<p>sakky…exactly… the MLB statement is pretty much along the lines of who gets a tenured professor job at a decent school…maybe even lower.
I felt the same sentiment…heck I was the one of the best players in the state of Florida my senior year much less just my high school but…that still doesn’t get you very far.
As good as you think you are, other people know the right people, have more money, more luck, and lastly, are often better than you.</p>
<p>For the OP, again, there is a huge difference between the careers mentioned. It is silly, in my opinion, to chase titles and prestige as a way to having a fulfilling life: even financially. Sakky, even though you perhaps didn’t have the talent to play major leagues, you could have worked for the major leagues, or had another a job and played baseball in other realms. Unfortunately, that is why these things are called “dream jobs,” because they are often just that: dreams. </p>
<p>And BigG, using extremes is not what I was talking about at all. There are millions of people living fulfilling, and even wealthy, lives who do not hold any of the titles mentioned in the OP and/or have not attended “prestigious” schools. There isn’t just one road to success, whatever that means for the individual. Quite frankly, the idea that “A prestigious degree facilitates any endeavor” doesn’t mean anything, because a person who is capable of doing something can/will do it no matter where their degree is from.</p>
<p>ThePhilosopher, I don’t think we’re talking about silly extremes. To be sure, becoming a professor is clearly not as difficult as becoming a Major League Baseball player, but as grapico mentioned, it’s nevertheless a dream job that even many Harvard PhD’s (or PhD’s from other top programs) won’t be able to obtain. The OP did specifically ask about becoming a professor, and that’s a goal you simply cannot bank upon. I ask again, what if you don’t get an academic placement? </p>
<p>I agree with you that millions of people do indeed live fulfilling lives without titles or fancy degrees. But that’s not to say that they are really doing exactly what they want to do, as most people don’t. Most people are settling for 2nd (or 3rd, 4th, etc.) best, as what they really wanted was not available to them. That 2nd choice can still be pretty good, but it still isn’t your first choice. </p>
<p>The takehome point is that flexibility is important. You never know what sorts of jobs will actually be available to you, so it behooves you to pursue an education that maximizes your flexibility. You should consider what you will do if you don’t get the job that you actually want. That’s simple prudence.</p>
<p>sakky and BigG,
your views of life are really depressing. i am not sure where you get the idea that so few people are actually doing what they want to in life. i would beg to differ. further, for many people, going to a “prestigous” school is not their objective. i did not even apply to an ivy league school because i don’t like name brands and i don’t really care to be around certain types of people. i could not be happier than doing what i am doing, where i am doing it.</p>
<p>Uh, where did we get such ideas, you ask? </p>
<p>Simple - just think back to your youth. How many young boys grow up dreaming of becoming professional athletes? And how many actually get to do that when they grow up? How many young girls dream of becoming movie stars or famous entertainers and how many actually get to do that? How many kids dream of becoming the President of the United States? Yet in the entire history of the country, only 44 people have actually been able to have that job. Hence, ipso facto, the overwhelming majority of people do not get to do what they really want to do. </p>
<p>Look, that’s life. I want to be President. I want to be a famous movie star like Brad Pitt. I want to play baseball like MVP Dustin Pedroia. I want to play football like Tom Brady. I want to play basketball like Kevin Garnett. But I don’t have the opportunities to do any of that. The New England Patriots aren’t offering me a roster spot, and neither are the Celtics or the Red Sox for the simple reason that I have no athletic talent. Instead, I have to take the jobs that are actually available to me. </p>
<p>So, mutation, maybe it’s true that you yourself never dreamed of becoming a professional athlete or a movie star or the President. That’s fine. But I’m quite certain that most people did, which means that most people have conceded that they won’t get the jobs that they really want. That’s hardly depressing, that’s just realistic.</p>
<p>What endevour is not facilitated by a prestigeous degree?</p>
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<li>There is a HUGE difference between dreams and goals: namely, that goals are possible achievements that are within reach. Please keep in mind that there is a huge different between what people WANT to do, and what they are capable of doing. There is a reason that a lot of people don’t become President or professional athletes: 1. They aren’t good enough to do so, or 2. Luck of the draw (public opinion). But the people (for the most part) that do go on to those positions (or movie stars or whatever else you want to provide an example of) are capable of doing those things. Some people just aren’t cut of for certain occupations, no matter what degree they hold or where it is from. But if you’re good at what you do, you will “succeed.”</li>
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<p>^ As for BigG’s question, I don’t think I have large enough character limit to start listing. The bottom line is, for ANY occupation: If you are good enough at what you do, you will get what you want. Hard work is what gets you money and success. Degree origin has very little to do with it, especially in the long run. If you want, take the law field for instance (one of the fields where “prestige matters the most”). Initially, where you get your law degree can land you that big law firm job paying 165k+. But the Harvard kids get the same position as the U_____ kids who do well in school, and can do the work. Guess what type of hours people work for the starting salaries? (Think over 60 hours a week) And after 5-10 years of experience, no one CARES where you get your degree, only that you do your job well, whether that be patient care or whatever the field, litigating or whatever the field, or researching and writing. There are only certain types of people who can do this, and it isn’t dependent on grades. </p>
<p>Returning to the original OP, there is a huge gap between being a good attorney, a good doctor, or a good academic/professor. I won’t make it absolute, but there are VERY few people who can do well in all three of these fields, and it is silly to just pick from them out of a hat. EVEN if a person did well academically (grades) in preparation/certification of the field, it does NOT mean that they will do well once in the field. And THAT is why people get “stuck” in occupations: because they didn’t really KNOW what they wanted to do, and they just had a general idea. Continuing with the law example, I can’t tell you how many people got law degrees because they had an “interest” in law, but once they started a career, they realize that they could have saved $200k (never mind the opportunity cost) and just started working while probably advancing in their field faster and doing what interested them. </p>
<p>I’m done for now.</p>
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<p>I couldn’t agree more, and in fact, I think you’re coming around to my point of view. All you have to do is take the logic a few steps further.</p>
<p>To wit, it is absolutely true that if you are good at what you do, you will ‘succeed’. The problem is, nobody really knows if they’re actually good enough. For every player who makes it to the Major Leagues, there are probably a hundred players languishing in the minors for their entire careers who will never be promoted to the majors. Eventually they’re going to have to quit and find some other careers. For every Brad Pitt, there are a thousand struggling thespians who are desperately trying to make it in Hollywood but never will. Heck, for many years Brad Pitt himself was one of them before he got his first big break. </p>
<p>Since nobody actually knows whether they’re good enough to succeed in any particular profession, or whether they’re even going to receive a job offer at all, it behooves people to obtain a marketable and flexible credential that they can leverage to find some other profession in which they will succeed. The degree can be likened to insurance: a safety net that you invoke when things go awry, and the more prestigious the degree, the more generous the terms of the insurance. A minor league baseball player with no college degree is in a bad state if he is released, but one with a degree has flexible options, and the more prestigious it is, the more flexible his options become. </p>
<p>As a case in point, I happen to know a guy who used to play baseball at Stanford and was selected for the minors. Obviously, he knew he was pretty good at baseball, but not whether he was good enough to make it to the majors. So he figured that he’d try the minors for a few years and if he didn’t make it, oh well, he’ll just quit and leverage his Stanford degree to join an investment bank, which is exactly what happened. But that’s not a viable option if your degree is from some low-ranked school, or if you don’t have a degree at all.</p>
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<p>And right there you’re identifying the crux of the problem: most people don’t really know what they want to do and, crucially, also don’t know what they’ll be good at doing. To take your story, how is somebody supposed to know that they don’t actually like working as a lawyer until they actually try it? It is absolutely true that most of them probably only had a general idea, but what else would they have? </p>
<p>Which is why I would invoke prestige once again. If you have a law degree from a top school like Harvard or Yale and then find out that you don’t really want to be a lawyer, you have many other career paths available to you. A significant fraction of Yale Law grads don’t practice law at all, but instead opt for other careers (i.e. politics). For many years, the top recruiter at Harvard Law School was not a law firm or a government agency, but rather was McKinsey, the most prominent strategy consulting firm in the world. </p>
<p>Robert Rubin admitted in his autobiography that as a young man, he didn’t know exactly what he wanted to do, he knew he didn’t want to be a lawyer for his whole career. Yet he nevertheless saw a law degree as a useful credential for whatever it was that he would end up doing. Seemed to have worked for him - after graduating from Yale Law and working a couple years at Cleary Gottlieb, he jumped to Goldman Sachs, eventually becoming Co-Chairman and Co-Senior Partner, and later became Secretary of the Treasury under Clinton.</p>
<p>But that’s the thing, a marketable credential is experience. The minor leaguer isn’t in a bad state for jobs if he already has the skills necessarily to get a job that suits him (working FOR the baseball team). Many individuals don’t HAVE to work (because of their income) after that big title job, but that’s besides the point. I am not saying that individuals need not learn the skills to succeed, I’m just saying that they don’t need to do it from a name brand TO succeed. And especially in the short term financially, it may hurt the individual. </p>
<p>My argument is that the base of the “problem” for obtaining a job is not the degree origin, or even the degree itself, but that the individual really has little idea of what they want to do. It’s not my problem, for my argument, that it is a problem in itself; I’m merely pointing it out. People don’t know themselves. That is why people are encouraged to participate in internships and job shadowing and the like. If you know what you want to do through exploration, and you are good at it, you can reap all the rewards without having a “top degree.” And if you do have a top degree, then it won’t matter in five years v. those in the career market who don’t. </p>
<p>Your Rubin example is fine, because it begs the question of whether he would have been successful anyway without going to Yale. I believe he would have. It was him as an individual that succeeded in the field, not Yale. He could have done the exact same thing going to U____, it may have just taken five years longer, but it would have saved him (not that he needed to) over $300k. </p>
<p>I disagree that your friend couldn’t become an investment banker from a “lower ranked school.” There are many people in the profession who don’t have a “top” degree. Nonetheless, I will return to my argument that it was not the degree that earned them admittance into the occupation, but rather their abilities.</p>
<p>Who knew this would mutate into such an ordeal!? haha Quick question for some of the posters, where did the “chasing prestige” come into play? I saw it more as job availability. I never even mentioned trying to acquire a degree from an Ivy League or anything of that nature. I just made the comment on the article about PhD s from Harvard. Somebody made parallel of my choice of a future career to drawing out of a hat. Well, I have an anecdote for you. I just made a 33 on my ACT and recently became the captain of our varsity quiz bowl team. Let’s assume I am a little bit above the mediocre student. I’m not saying test scores are everything, just hear me out. I am infatuated with numerous subjects at school. The only class I detest would be mathematics. Calculus = :X lol If I were to single out my absolute favorite, it would be history. I also ADORED my AP Gov and AP English classes. I think the practice of law is extremely fascinating. I know the actually job of an attorney involves prodigious writing and dealing with numerous people. I am fine with that! Law sounds like an intriguing profession; however, Biology/Chemistry are also amazing classes. Am I insinuating that the classes are the same as the actual professions? Absolutely not!! Along with loving my science classes, my uncle is a doctor, and I have even shadowed him on a couple of occasions. I tried to research the benefits and downfalls of each career. I am aware of the discrepancies between the fields of teaching, law, and medicine. I know that they are all different. I like to look at my criterion for a future career: decent pay, quality of life, passion, and ultimately, making a positive difference in world. Am I crazed for believing this far fetched concept that all three of this fields could pave this wanted path? I think I am still a rational rising senior in high school just trying to narrow down his list. I am an adamant believer that attending the best schools possible, such as Ivy League, will be beneficial to the student. Albeit, it is ultimately the student’s drive and ambition that will power his/her career to bring success. I just want to attend schools that I see as a “fit” on levels of academics, social scene, and overall happiness. I hope that this brings some cloture. Sorry.</p>
<p>high school courses are much different from university courses. you may not like university-level history. if your professor is worth his or her salt, he or she will NEVER test you on names and dates, but rather impress upon you the importance of historical processes and restoring agency to those whose names we do not know but whose actions changed the status quo (or attempted to). i know quite a few people that loved history in high school and hated it in university because it’s not about memorization and regurgitation, certainly not after the first or second year at any rate.</p>
<p>your exposure to anthropology in high school is likely just as skewed from the reality of the discipline in graduate school. same thing for political science, which (i’d hate to break it to you) involves a lot of math. a lot. you’ll need at least a few courses in statistics at the college level if you want a PhD in political science.</p>
<p>so, i’d suggest just relaxing, enjoying yourself a bit, and use university as an opportunity to explore. keep an open mind, dabble in any and all of the fields that interest you, and if one fits and you’re passionate about it, pursue that. as was said before, law, medicine, and a humanities PhD are all very disparate, and each discipline within the humanities/social sciences has its particular quirks that you will love or hate. so don’t plan for a PhD when you’re not even at university yet.</p>
<p>also, university level biology is more like chemistry than the high school bio you know and love. and university level chem is more like physics, and university level physics is bordering on pure math. if you don’t like math, you won’t make it through a science degree because you’ll burn out on it. if you’re not good at math, you won’t make it through a science degree because you’ll fail too many classes.</p>
<p>also, attending a prestigious undergrad school is not terribly important for those set on going to grad school. getting incredibly high grades at whatever institution they attend is far more important in the application process than the name of your alma mater is. so again, relax, don’t worry, and answer these questions for yourself much, much later.</p>