<p>There was a series last month on The Learning Channel called Kids by the Dozen, about families with around 12-14 kids. And you’ve probably heard of the Duggars, who I think are up to 16 now? Last night on Primetime the story was about polygamy. I think having more than a couple of kids is irresponsible (two of the families featured clearly could not comfortably afford to have that many children, sacrified by eating cheap meat and I saw no fresh vegetables). In my opinion it is mostly irresponsible environmentally but I also don’t see how the kids can receive enough quality attention. I know, I know, when families are that large, often the older siblings are providing a lot of the care and attention so it isn’t necessarily just mom and dad stretched to care for all the kids. Though I see a lot of problems with the polygamist lifestyle and the women being subservient to men, etc., I think those kids would tend to be better off with several wives looking after them. I know I sure could use a good wife to share the load!</p>
<p>I agree with your reservations about very large families, but I think that the current trend toward very small families – combined with the geographic dispersion of families – also causes problems. </p>
<p>When family members require assistance – because they are elderly, disabled, or facing some type of crisis – their needs can be an overwhelming burden in a small family because there are so few people to share the load. If, as has been the case in my own family, there is only one person available, even seemingly simple things like getting an elderly person to her medical appointments can be overwhelming.</p>
<p>I don’t have any answers or recommendations. I just wanted to point out that both extremes have their disadvantages.</p>
<p>NewatThis:</p>
<p>Well, I’ve raised seven children and am still in the proces on #8. I suppose that makes me some sort of a bad person. Does it make a difference that six were adopted?</p>
<p>To each his own, but I am not in favor of the older children basically being responsible for raising the younger ones while the mother is constantly pregnant or nursing (ie the Duggar family <a href=“http://www.duggarfamily.com/)%5B/url%5D”>http://www.duggarfamily.com/)</a>.</p>
<p>Wow, what a very personal issue…as tarhunt demonstrates, there may well be “more” to the story than first appears: she has many children, but she did not “selfishly” foist her own offspring on the world to use up resources but “selflessly” took in other’s offspring: does that make her big family bad? I’d say these kids are 110% better off having parents who want them and growing up in a big family than growing up in foster care or whatever - even if they perhaps had to budget more for food, clothes & fun. But the definition for “affordable” is not universal, either. Cheap meat never killed anyone (although vegans would argue that it does!) and fresh veggies can be had, big family or not (all those extra hands can contribute chore time in the garden.) Some countries who culturally or legally limit reproduction are discovering a real problem…they’ve figured out that there will not be enough younger people to provide necessary services for the number of older people they’ll have in the next 50 years. Japan is seeing this right now.</p>
<p>You’re right; it is a very personal issue and I shared my feelings on the issue and wondered about the opinions of others. I was using the example of the families featured on these programs who are heavily reproducing; I do feel larger families via foster care and adoption are a different story (except individual attention would still be a challenge). The TV programs portrayed the families in a very positive light while I was thinking Wait a minute, if they want to have so many kids, why not open their home to children who are already here and need a family to love them?</p>
<p>I argue that poor nutrition (cheap meat and cheap starchy canned vegetables) never killed anyone. Maybe not in this generation, but especially if they are raising a bunch of girls who will then go on to reproduce, this could affect many, many offspring down the road. The family who was so proud that they spent $100 per week (I don’t recall the exact amount) on groceries for a family of 15, several of their children looked sickly and undernourished.</p>
<p>I’ve had 8 kids–all mine (one died). Remember that the birthrate in the US would be below replacement level if it weren’t for Mexican immigrants; it is really a tiny percentage of people who have large families. I think it is about 1 in 1000 that has 7 children or more. Large families like the Duggars make the news simply because they are so rare nowadays, so I don’t think people should feel “threatened” by this. Large families are not a trend, by any means. And believe me, the work and expense of a large family, along with societal attitudes against large families, are enough to keep the vast majority of people from having them. H and I both grew up in large families. We enjoy having a large family, but it definitely is not for everyone–really for a small minority. </p>
<p>I take care of my own kids and live frugally–most people would not choose this kind of lifestyle. (BTW, every garbage day I am amazed to see several large cans plus extra bags and boxes in front of most houses on my street–where only 2-4 people live, when we put out one small can for 8-9 people. . .environmental impact is more about lifestyle than just numbers). It seems there is a lot of prejudice against large families. Some people are all for “reproductive choice”–except when that choice includes actually reproducing 
It is a personal decision. People may see my kids as environmental hazards today–but my kids will be contributing to their social security tomorrow. </p>
<p>I don’t like it when I see too much childcare dumped on the older kids in a big family–that is a sure way to turn them off to having their own families later, IMO. And I find it annoying when people take a lot of little kids out it public and can’t control them. I’m sure H would go for the 2nd wife if he could. . .</p>
<p>atomom:</p>
<p>May I first salute your body? I know what it went through. And I’m very sorry for your loss. If the universe were as it should be, children would never predecease their parents.</p>
<p>atomom~</p>
<p>My condolences, too, on the passing of your sweet baby…{{{{gentle hugs}}}}}.</p>
<p>Six biologicals here, three boys and three girls. I lost one baby in early pregnancy, so seven pregnancies. </p>
<p>Our kids have everything they need and enough of what they want. </p>
<p>My opinion on big families is simply this: no one needs to ask my permission to have one!</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
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</p>
<p>Ooooookay. We’re not being judgmental here are we?</p>
<p>As one of six I chose not to go anywhere near that number. Nor did any of my siblings–nor did most of my friends who grew up in very large families.</p>
<p>It wasn’t that much fun in the end. In many large famililes, the fallout from lack of parental attention during childhood has been tragic. Our parents did their very best and they were outstanding but inthe end, it was too many souls to look after.</p>
<p>Four is the number I put as my outside limit. Families with four seem able to properly care for all the children. Families with more than four have similar levels of chaos–chaos which is regularily excused by “But I am taking care of so many!” </p>
<p>In my experience, that chaos has repercussions for adult children. Many large families are all grins and shucks until the youngest ones start matriculating through college. Not that limiting yourself to smaller numbers saves you from heartache but it is far easier to meet individual needs for a smaller group of children. </p>
<p>That’s my experience and conclusion. Please don’t flame me.</p>
<p>Well, I guess I screwed up. I had one, and then two more. At the same time. How foolish.</p>
<p>Oh yeah, mom3s! I just can’t imagine all the extra Cheerios you’ve wasted over the years!!!</p>
<p>Big families are perfectly fine to me. Why would anyone care how many kids someone else has? When my 2 kids were in preschool we dragged in at the last minute with me barely presentable. A younger mom with 5 kids was always leaving. Those kids were perfectly dressed and groomed and the mom looked like a million bucks each and every day. How the heck did she do it? Anyway my opinion…live your life and don’t be too quick to judge.</p>
<p>So y’all are having a party without me???</p>
<p>Fine, I see how it is…I’ll just take me and all the kittens some place where we are wanted!!!</p>
<p>Ran into the kittens’ GC from high school the other day and she commented how much she and others at the school missed them all. Since they are all about a year apart their teachers’ got to experience most of them all at the same time. (good and bad to that I am sure!) She said she can’t wait for the day when they all come back to visit and she says "Dr. Kitten, and they all respond with a ‘Yes?’!!!</p>
<p>We too are a “forever family”, a blending of adopted and biological children. And yep my kiddos did not have cell phones, or cars, heck they didn’t have driver’s licenses til last summer, 3 have permits now so we are working on it. We do love our coupons!! On the flip side, they are very fiscally responsible, love each other deeply and are the best of friends. But most importantly, they are truly appreciative of the gifts they did receive. And they understand completely to whom much has been given, much, very much is expected.</p>
<p>And as I am sure many of you long-time posters know I miss them so terribly. I do count the days to when they all come home again.</p>
<p>My secret wish (secret plan!!!) is the kittens all end up attending the same med school and if not the same, at least here locally. They have 4 to choose from!! Oldest in vet school is local so that is ONE!</p>
<p>Kat
with LOTS of kittens</p>
<p>I think the operative word here is “responsible.” Personally, I support anyone having whatever size family suits their temperament, so long as the goal is to remain responsible for all of them physically, emotionally and financially. (Noting that life can be unpredictable, too.)</p>
<p>Its the parents who continue to reproduce when they can barely (or not at all) afford even one, that I find so offensive.</p>
<p>
Well said! I wish I had had more kittens, like Kat. We have two wonderful sons, and I’m grateful for them. Circumstances did not allow for more, but I love large families and wish I had one. Any stray friend is welcome – the more the merrier. </p>
<p>I sometimes think that the many families I know with 2 or 3 kids living in the suburbs is odd, in its own way. So many families seem fragmented – parents both work and have business travel, kids are in a million activities, extended families are spread across the country. Perhaps I’m idealizing here, but I love the idea of several generations of a family living near one another, helping with kids and chores. My sisters all live on the west coast, and are very involved with helping the youngest, who is a single mom. It’s great. No flames, please, but it’s also been my experience that sometimes the kids from larger families are better behaved – there’s no room for chaos with so many.</p>
<p>Kat, I did not know your kittens were a mix of adopted and biological - that’s wonderful.
I am a big believer of to each his own - my concerns about families like the Duggars are more related to the “make your family life into a reality TV show” aspect of their story, than the fact that they simply have 16 kids.
My husband’s grandmother was one of 28, yes I said twenty-eight. Half of them, ?13, ?15, were all killed in a hurricane (can you imagine???), then great-grandma had 13-15 more.</p>
<p>Cangel…she must have been constantly pregnant all of her childbearing years starting quite young in order to produce 28 offspring. Whew…not for me!</p>
<p>I only have two…kinda got sidetracked by the career and got off to a late start. But my parents both come from big families, and I’m one of four. Last time I checked, I believe we were over the 25 mark on the first cousin count. My grandmother had 7 (my mom’s older sister died shortly after birth) because she grew up a pampered only child and hated it. The doctors finally told her she had to stop making babies for her own health. My husband is also one of four. His mother had 11 siblings and his father six. </p>
<p>What ‘makes’ a family is definitely something that is a personal choice which should be respected. So imho, that choice falls under the heading ‘noneya’.</p>