<p>JMHO … but I’d suggest withdrawing from the current class and make plans to take it during the summer, when there will be plenty of study hours available. Just be sure that the summer course will transfer. (This is NOT a trivial requirement … many colleges offer OC courses that won’t qualify as a requirement for major.)</p>
<p>Yes, many colleges use OC as a “weed out” course. That’s a primary reason to get a good grade in the course … so one doesn’t get “weeded out” during the PA school application process.</p>
<p>Good news: Organic Chem is not required for admission to my daughter’s grad program. Ther schools may be the same. She could stay in science progam other than her current major and still get into a PA progam. Here’s what is:
■The successful completion of the Pre-Professional Phase at Marywood University or a Bachelor’s degree from another college or university.
■A minimum overall GPA of 3.0
■A minimum overall GPA of 3.0 in the following required science courses:
■2 semesters of General Chemistry with lab (Science Major Level)
■2 semesters of General Biology with lab (Science Major Level)
■1 semester of Microbiology with lab (Science Major Level)
■2 semesters of Anatomy and Physiology with lab (Science Major Level)
■In most cases these courses must have been completed within the last seven years
Successful completion of a Medical Terminology Course within the last two years prior to matriculation.(Time frame may be waived if currently employed in the healthcare field).
■Three letters of recommendation
■A minimum of 500 documented direct patient care hours; mandatory shadowing of a PA
■Completion of Technical Standards (upon acceptance to the program)
■Submission of an application through CASPA (Centralized Application Service for Physician Assissants) The application deadline is December 1st.
■Successful interview by the Physician Assistant Selection Committee. Final acceptance to the Professional phase is ultimately based not only on performance in the prerequisite sciences and overall academic performance but also on the student’s desire for and understanding of the profession, demonstration of maturity, self-confidence and good interpersonal skills.
■Marywood University currently does not accept transfer credits from other Professional PA Programs nor does Marywood offer advanced placement or credit for experiential learning.
■Due to Affiliation Agreements with clinical sites, a background check is required.
■GRE scores are required at the time of the interview for all CASPA applicants and at the beginning of the spring semester (semester before transitioning to professional phase) for Marywood University Pre-PA students.
50% of the class from Pre-PA Majors at Marywood University </p>
<p>Marywood just doubled their class size; they used to only take in as many new admissions as needed to replace students dropping/failing out of the undergrad program.
The program is tough - 10% have failed out since the grad phase classes started in June.</p>
<p>My daughter took the full year of O’Chem in the summer…and she says it was the worst summer of her life. She spent nine weeks (3 terms…her school is on quarters so each term was three weeks long in the summer) going to class and studying. Her “break” was working on Saturday mornings. She said she never worked so hard in a course…and yes…she got a C in each term. C for COMPLETE. She never has to take it again. These were the only C’s she got in college…she too is going to apply to PA school.</p>
<p>I would say…tell your daughter to stay the course if this is what she really wants to do. My kid found that O’chem grade really had no bearing or relationship to the difficulty of her upper level engineering and biology courses. Had it not been for the O’chem grades, my kid would have graduated with honors. Oh well.</p>
<p>Why not nursing? If she is interested in a health career, nursing has a lot of opportunities to choose from. If she wants, she can go to graduate school for her NP.</p>
<p>My son doesn’t have organic chemistry in his PA program, either. He says his regular “chemistry of life” class incorporated some organic chemistry. The hardest class at his school is anatomy and that was sophomore year. Your D can get a lot of good info from older students, but she really needs to talk to an advisor. I’ve never heard of chemistry and energetics. After a google search, I see it at one school and it’s part of a pre-PA prgram. If that’s the school, it’s a well-known school and I’m sure the classes are much more difficult. If your D isn’t in a guaranteed program, she really needs to find out where she stands. If she still wants to be a P.A., have her check out one of the dozens of schools in Pennsylvania that offer guaranteed admission. Good luck.</p>
<p>Toledo,
The Pennsylvania schools only guarantee admission to those students who are admitted as freshmen and have the necessary GPA and the 500 hours of direct patient exposure… would not work for the OP’s daughter since she’s already a sophomore.
Good thing my kid doesn’t come onto this site… I just looked back at my first post in the thread and noticed I greatly reduced her GPA from it’s real 3.94 to a 3.4!
Did your son come up against the human anatomy lab yet? My daughter did fine in that, but nearly keeled over practicing innoculations yesterday; another student actually threw up. Funny what gets to you.</p>
<p>OP, does your daughter need to complete organic chemistry this year? If not, and if she can drop organic and pick up something else, I really recommend the plan that I suggested. If she has to complete it this year, then I strongly recommend that she/you hire a good tutor. </p>
<p>She doesn’t need to drop her major plans entirely. If organic doesn’t click for a student the first time through, it is still possible to master it. But it might take a different approach to the material than she’s been adopting.</p>
<p>agreed. This feels like (and is) a major hurdle for her degree. But, unless I misunderstand, this is a stand-alone 2-semester sequence,f which is likely to effect her professional performance. If she can regroup, line up resources and try again to get over this fence, it’s probably a very good strategy.</p>
<p>My son’s school has been adding students all along. One girl dropped out because she couldn’t touch anyone’s feet. How’s that for a strange reason?!! Also, he only needed 30 hours of “direct patient contact”. All the schools have slightly different programs. My son made it through anatomy just fine, but some students had to retake anatomy during the summer at other colleges (Too bad OP’s D can’t do this). Fourth year is the most interesting, because it’s more hands-on, but it does move quickly.</p>
<p>Lots of helpful information here. Thank you! Good to know that Ochem doesn’t really come up again. I wish I could have my D read the wisdom here but she would KILL me for coming here for advice. Oh well.</p>
<p>I do think she really wants to be a PA. Loves the bio stuff but the chemistry is the problem. She is very good at memorization but that doesn’t help her here. I don’t know if the sequence of classes can be played with but I will find out. She is back on track today, studying (or so she says). Seems to be out of the funk a bit but still determined that she is too stupid to reach her goal. I wish we could go into a holding pattern for a few weeks while she figures out what to do but the semester keeps ticking away regardless.</p>
<p>I have never even taken chem, but my oldest needed a year of ochem for her bio degree. She failed the final spring term, which pushed her to the bottom of the curve & failed the class. Instead of retaking the course the next year ( while she was writing her thesis) she opted to take a year off & work while retaking the course at a college closer to home. She did that with her professors blessing and returned the next year to finish her degree.
It was hard for her to return home, but it ultimately worked out & she didn’t have to change her major.</p>
<p>"Geesch. O’Chem is a killer for almost everyone. So take the C and just dust yourself off and get on with things. </p>
<p>PS
Everyone needs their first C. We all get a few sooner or later. And if you didn’t get one in school, you’ll certainly get a few in the real world. "</p>
<p>No kidding! Some classes you’ll feel lucky to get a C in. If she thinks she’ll definitely flunk it, drop it at the last moment and retake it next semester (while sitting in on the class this semester). Make sure she has a light load when she takes it, and works her butt off at it. Some things are just really hard and don’t come naturally to everyone. So what of it? She’ll be proud when she makes that passing grade. Maybe she can take it in the summer at a community college. Unless she’s going to be an organic chemistry professor, does it really matter that this course is hard for her?</p>
<p>I wish I could send your daughter the suggestion to hire a grad student tutor, EPTR. Please tell her for me that difficulty with organic is not at all a problem of being “stupid.” It’s a question of approaching the material in fruitful ways vs. ways that could be quite intelligent (maybe even better), but aren’t fruitful on the time scale of the course. A tutor who knows organic can really help with this. Best if there is one who can see things the way your daughter sees them, and then find the shortest path to a mastery of the material that suits the course and exams. </p>
<p>Organic chemistry is the sort of subject where two students who have scored 65 on an exam may actually have quite different levels of mastery of the material. Some 65’s are much easier to push up to 90’s on the next exam than others. Your daughter needs someone who can go over the first exam with her and figure out whether there may be just a few minor elements that need work.</p>
<p>I took an organic class where the mean on one of the exams was 28 (out of 100) and the mode was 4. Nobody in the class was “stupid.”</p>
<p>If you can’t get her to take this advice to heart, I sympathize. Sometimes it’s hard to tell college-age students much of anything! (Voice of experience)</p>
<p>Busdriver, Thanks but we covered all of that. She got a C last semester and is fine with that. This is orgo II. She flunked the first of three exams and is panicking. She can’t take the class at another college. It won’t transfer in.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity, That’s an encouraging story. My D could take it during the summer at her college, i assume. It’s a possiblity. Thanks and congrats to your D for sticking with it. Waht is she doing now?</p>
<p>QuantMech, You are the voice of reason and experience. I wish YOU could tutor her! I will find a way to pass along all of your suggestions and informed opinions, along with others that have been very helpful here!
My daughter had experiences with a medical issue growing up that had a profound effect on her. She spent a day shadowing the specialist that is her doctor and loved every minute of it. She wants to specialize in that field so that she can help other kids who have the same issue. That’s why there is a lot at stake for her. I appreciate all of your help!</p>
<p>EPTR Although my D only failed spring semester of Ochem, we decided that it would be best to redo the entire year ( and retaking in the summer at a local school which is on qtrs- would not have been enough credits for a semester class)</p>
<p>She worked for several years after graduation and is now in her 2nd yr of grad school.</p>
<p>One other question for those of you with knowledge of PA programs or have kids in a program. Do or did they all major in a Biology? One option would be for her to change to something like Community Health or Sociology and make sure she takes all of the prerequisite classes for applying to PA programs. The attractive part of that option is that it would be less demanding and afford her the opportunity to do some clinical in her off time without having the extreme study load of a Bio major. She already has two biology courses and two chems under her belt and would need to take physiology anyway with the community health major. </p>
<p>Did any of your kids major in something besides bio or chem?</p>