Just because I found this an interesting use of adjectives, how does this differ from “looks like a hooker” in the realm of stereotyping. Not to single out Magnetron, but stereotyping goes both ways as far as genders go on some of these threads. I’ve ready many a thread (and would be happy to do the research) where men are stereo-typed in many ways. I probably have my attennna up living in a household of of men for 30 years and trying to raise 3 boys that were secure in their masculinity but sensitive to what women want, but really…I have 3 very good male friends that are pilots for major airlines and I would not describe any of them as jut-jawed, masculine types. They are male. After that one is a fun-loving joker, one is a true family guy and one is genuinely just a sensitive guy. I’m sure if you put 100 guys together randomly some might have a strong jaw and uber masculine body…but 100 women randomly chosen would probably disclose a couple that look like hookers. If women want society to stop generalizing about who is a slut and who isn’t, then simultaneous we have to stop generalizing about men.
@momofthreeboys - this isn’t a thread about stereotyping, but if it were, it might be relevant that the description you quoted is positive, which makes it very, very different from slut-shaming. Men aren’t shamed because their jaws jut or they’re masculine.
@ucbalumnus – interesting. I did learn that Nordstrom had some lines they can custom order with the appropriate pant and coat size and they don’t charge any more for it than buying the same suit off the rack, but of course you still have to wait and they still may not be affordable for many college students, but more affordable than custom.
There are slimmer cut suits out there, but I found most still have two side vents in the back of the coat. You don’t see a lot of that in finance, so I was always looking for the more traditional center vent. Easy to find at Nordstrom, but even when I’d order them in the appropriate size, center vent coats tend to fit more boxy and I still had to have them taken in. More waiting for alterations.
^There’s a difference between made to measure/bespoke and made to order. What Nordstrom was offering at the same price was almost certainly made to order, which allows you to select a separate pants size and jacket size. It does not allow you to buy a jacket made for a different drop. You’re still getting a jacket made for a 6 or 7 inch drop. This is essentially the same as suit separates with some additional customization options: 3 vs 2 buttons, side vs center vents.
Even Brooks Brothers makes slim and modern fit suits these days (used to be the bastion of boxy cuts) with center vents.
@roethlisburger , yes, made to order for a 6 inch drop. Not the same fit as custom (made to measure) from a swatch.which always fit better.
@doschicos I didn’t know that. I didn’t even try BB because of their rep for box cuts. Good info, but too late. I don’t wear suits anymore. Where were you when I needed you? 
But we’re way off topic here.
@marvin100 If you think that the description of some men as jut-jawed whatever was intended as positive, I have a bridge to sell you.
If you believe there’s been historical, material, and institutional stigmatizing and persecution of jut-jawed men, you might also believe you have a bridge, @Consolation
I think I made it very clear that I was talking about one specific post, marvin100.
Clearly, you’ve never worked in a business casual environment, or at least what’s considered business casual outside of the west coast and tech startups. If I wore tennis shoes, I would be taken aside by my supervisor and reminded about the company dress code. If I showed up in flip flops, I would be told to go home and change into more appropriate attire.
Fortunately, I work in an industry where non-customer-contact people tend not to have to worry about such trivial matters as what kind of shoes one wears.
Funny! So many of the guys I fly with are not “jut-jawed, masculine types”, at least they don’t look like that stereotype. Many people have gained tons of weight over the years, based upon the hazards of living out of a suitcase, many have lost their hair. Very few are the stereotypical picture that Magnetron has described, probably because most people are older when they get hired by the airlines, and have mellowed out. There are some things that you can stereotype, but probably not noticed from people outside the profession, and they aren’t negative to me.
I have, of course, dressed appropriately in every single environment I’ve ever worked in. That includes everything from where I work now- an office with ~3 other people (I work there half the time and home half the time) where I can literally show up in pajamas and no one cares all the way through business formal when I was working on the senate floor.
I was referring to my everyday wear.
You could have just asked if that was what I wear to work, too, but far easier and more fun to just assume, amirite? 
I’m actually working right now in my favorite office wearing my favorite clothes. Sitting on my couch with my derpy puppy on my legs wearing sweats and snuggled under a comfy blanket :).
ETA:
Wait a minute. I literally said in my post that I know how to dress professionally:
^ here’s what you said in a earlier post
Saying you would laugh at anyone who ever had a problem with that, is at the least odd wording if you were only referring to your current position at your current employer.
The red herring about work-appropriate clothing is irrelevant: since dressing up in a Santa costume or wearing a tuxedo would be inappropriate in many workplaces, this whole sidetrack has nothing to do with slut-shaming.
You know, I’m not that young. I was one of the earlier female USAF pilots, though not initial cadre. I have also been stuck in a small space for many hours (and on 2-3 week trips), but hey, now I am master! Harass me now (please? I would enjoy the challenge :D).Look, I have dealt with stuff that makes leaving dirty magazines in the cockpit seem like nothing. In fact, sometimes us ladies would buy Playgirls to place in the cockpit, as fair play. The silliness we have dealt with in the airlines is nothing like what women have dealt with in the military. I doubt her specific lawsuit played too much into how women are treated at my airline, yet I think that every time someone makes a big fuss and sues or people get in trouble, there is flailing and reacting…but it gets better. Over the years I have seen a gradual transition to the point that when something makes me mildly uncomfortable or seems inappropriate, I feel a little bewildered, like after all these years we still have to deal with this?
But I am glad that Tammy stepped up, and put herself out there. I might have a different opinion if it was my airline and I knew her, but I don’t. Every time women did this, it does make it better for the rest of us, to the point that we are almost normalized in the industry. Kind of. I suspect that the harassment that she endured had much to do with making an issue of it. If you complain, report people, become public…you are that woman with the chip on your shoulder, and everyone knows your name. I have never reported anyone, ever, it’s not my style. If something went past the line for me (and my line is way, far out there), I dealt with it directly. I refuse to be a victim. However, everyone is different, and I appreciate the women out there who have made it better for the rest of us.
Oh I do so love when people read only what they want to in order to set up a straw man.
The very last sentence that you’ve conveniently left out… read it slowly.
We are wayyyyy off track from the topic.
Sandra Fluke’s style choices would pass muster at the most conservative law firm in the land. And yet she was excoriated in the most vicious and personal terms imaginable.
Her sin was not dressing inappropriately. Her sin was advocating for women’s reproductive rights.
“Unless you’re posting from Riyadh or Tehran, you’re arguing against a straw man.”
@roethlisburger :
That isn’t a straw man argument, not by a long shot. Even though for the past 40 years or so most places have made the 'she was asking for it" argument illegal in rape cases, there are still cases where juries have found defendants innocent because the idiot judge let the defense lawyer ask what she was wearing that night (usually introduced as evidence from the crime scene, especially if the woman had her clothes torn off and it included things like a miniskirt, the shoes she was wearing, etc, lawyer might not be able to accuse her of ‘asking for it’, but if she was wearing clubwear, hey, you know).
Think about high profile cases like the Steubenville football beasts (and I apologize to the great apes, they don’t act like that) and those in the town who said the boys were innocent of anything, that the girl knew what she was getting into, or read commentary on rape cases where for example the girl was coming home from a club or had been on a beach wearing a bikini, and there are plenty of the “wages of sin” types out there, if you think that people don’t think that a girl was asking for it because of what they were wearing, I have three bridges and a piece of land in Florida to sell you, we have people just as backward as those in Riyadh and Tehran, and it isn’t a tiny group either.
@momofthreeboys:
I think the stereotype of the macho, alpha pilots (the jutting jaw is usually described as a man with ‘chiseled features’) comes from the fact that most pilots used to come from the military, and back in the day military pilots, specifically fighter pilots, were these image of the hard drinking, macho, ‘solo warriors’ and the like. The airlines actually ran into the negative consequences of this, more than a few airline accidents and tragedies were traced back to the solo warrior mentality of fighter pilots, there was a famous crash in the everglades that happened because all three of the flight crew were obsessed about a warning light for the landing gear, rather than delegating tasks, and the plane went into the everglades because basically no one noticed it was going too low (this is a standard case study in management classes on delegation and team operations). Too, it is only maybe a generation or so since women were allowed to fly in the military, and I suspect that has had a big change in the airlines and pilots attitudes. Put it this way, growing up my next door neighbor as a commercial pilot flying for one of the big airlines, he was an ex WWII combat pilot and he told all kinds of stories that reinforce that stereotype.
I suspect the other thing is that back in the day, airlines used to force out pilots past a certain age, there was rampant age discrimination, so they had a constant influx of young pilots coming out of the military, and like with flight attendants and age discrimination, you see a lot of pilots who are older, paunchy, hair falling out, etc then you would have 30 or 40 years ago. Actually, the stereotype of the solo warrior/battle hardened/jaw of granite male wasn’t a negative, in the sense that you fit that mold you would be looked upon favorably by most people, would be a sign of character, etc (and as I noted before, the solo warrior as not necessarily a great choice for a pilot on a 747, might have been better off with a B52 or cargo pilot, given they work with crews).
I don’t know if I agree with that. She was advocating for insurance to pay for her birth control, was she not? I agree with insurance covering birth control and taxpayer funded birth control, but I don’t consider that advocating for others to pay for your birth control as the same thing as advocating for reproductive rights. It’s just who is going to pay for it.