Busdriver, for a lot of women, if insurance doesn’t pay for birth control, they can’t get birth control. That’s not a financial scenario that most of us can relate to, but it’s stone-cold reality to millions of Americans. Payment=access.
Fluke said that women have a right to birth control, which is the same thing as saying that they have a right to insurance that covers birth control. In this day and age, you wouldn’t think that’s a controversial position, but it is.
“I suspect the other thing is that back in the day, airlines used to force out pilots past a certain age, there was rampant age discrimination, so they had a constant influx of young pilots coming out of the military”
It wasn’t age discrimination per se but FAA regulations that required pilots to retire at age 60. It was changed by the FAA to 65 in 2009. Often airlines offered early retirement packages to pilots to get them to retire a little earlier. The unions value seniority so my understanding is it was always a choice and often worthwhile to the pilot to retire earlier.
Just knowing a lawyer asked a question doesn’t prove anything about why the jury ruled the way it did. Maybe the evidence was weak? To prove your assertion, you would need statements from jury members after the trial: saying, for example, I found him not guilty because her shorts were too short. Since criminal verdicts have to be unanimous, one idiot juror would at most result in a hung jury and possibly a retrial. I like Florida, so if you’ve got some beachfront property you’re looking to unload at a cheap price, pm me.
Agree with doschicos, definitely not age discrimination, regulation. Many of us hate that change, because it slows progression, can’t get the old guys out of the seat so other people can upgrade and get seniority. Age 65 change caused a lot of furloughs.
That is why I’m a big Planned Parenthood supporter. Many women still don’t have doctors nor insurance, so insurance paying for it helps them very little.
FWIW, Fluke was advocating that the drugs which are most commonly used as birth control, but which also effectively treat a variety of other conditions not even slightly related to the patient’s sex life, be included in all health plans. Opponents of reproductive rights were having none of it. They were so afraid that the endometriosis patient might also want to have sex that they were OK with denying treatment for the endometriosis itself. (Of course, endometriosis is a condition that only women can get. Sheer coincidence, I’m sure.)
Busdriver, I’m also a supporter of PP. I hope it can continue to do the large volume of good work that it does.
I have had ovarian cysts since my early teens. I probably ended up in the ER 3-4 because of ruptured cysts.
I’ve been on the pill since I was about 13 (I was bad about taking it which is why I still ended up in the ER sometimes…). Finally when I was 20, my obgyn suggested an implant and I haven’t had a cyst since.
But you know what? It shouldn’t make a lick of difference to anyone other me and my doctor why I’m on birth control. It’s pretty simple. Or at least, it should be.
@roethlisburger:
What I wrote has happened and it came out in interviews with Jurors, and to think that the US somehow is better than places like Tehran and Saudi Arabia is ignoring the fact that it wasn’t all that long ago that lawyers were allowed to ask a woman about her sex life and imply she was a ‘slut asking for it’. We have a lot of misogynists in this country, read up sometime when the bible thumping preachers start going on about rampant sex and somehow it always seems to be young women’s sexuality, that hypocrisy has been a major part of a lot of religion for thousands of years, and as far as a jury being unanimous you are assuming that juries are this wonderful random pool of unbiased peers, when they are chosen, profiled, and a defense lawyer who is going to take this tack is going to try and pull jurors that would agree with that. I am not saying it always works, I am saying after seeing the response of several cases where high school boys sexually assaulted a girl and saw what all the fine people of their community said about the girl tells me enough what people are like, doesn’t take a genius to figure that out.
If it’s that common, you should be able to link to at least 1 direct quote of these mystery jurors you’re arguing against from a case tried within the past 10 years.
@roethlisburger Is it your contention that there is no double standard in the way men’s sexual activity is viewed and treated, say, in a court of law, versus women’s sexual activity?
BTW, just curious. Does your screen name refer to the Steelers quarterback?
^My contention is that it would be extraordinarily rare in the US to have 1 juror, much less a full jury panel, rule a defendant not guilty in a rape trial based on what the alleged victim was or wasn’t wearing. Prosecutors also have the option of asking the judge to dismiss potential jurors. I’m referring to today, not 40-50 years ago.
http://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1096&context=yjlf
This very thoughtful paper discusses a case like that, @roethlisburger , from 1990.
http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1109&context=djglp
Interesting review.
Yeah, that’s fascinating!
The difference in how a woman’s sexuality and a mans sexuality are viewed is a matter I find very complex. As a 58 year old man who grew up in a conservative blue collar household and who now works in the financial services industry and lastly who has a young bright feminist daughter.
I know where I am at with it, but it doesn’t mean that I am not conflicted at times. There should not be double standards, that is not reasonable or fair! The “player” is okay and the “slut” is not thinking is misogynistic and really antiquated. Yet that thinking very definitely exists and is perpetuated by women as well as men.
I am not a religious person but there is an expression that has some application here, God looks on the inside and people look on the outside.
This is what I find so potentially difficult and troubling for women. People shouldn’t judge but they will. So there can be a cost to living your own truth completely. I admire anyone who lives their truth without apology. I do fear that there can be a downside personally and professionally. This is not at all fair but it would be naive to think otherwise. Someone or a collection of someone’s need to be the force of change. I hate the thought of the adversity women have to deal with in regard to this.
@GreatKid wrote
Great words, and so true. It’s why I think about clothing as a costume, and what stage am I going to be on to get the best result for me? While I work really hard not to judge others by their appearance, I am fully cognizant of the fact that other do judge me (and my daughters).
I think there is power in knowing how to present yourself to manipulate those who are gulled by appearances. Power suit? got that. Friendly mom? sure, that’s Tuesday’s costume. Artist? yep, look at me covered by paint, I’m so creative. Terrifying parent on the warpath? Yep, have a favorite outfit for that. Hot sexy mama? Yeah, I have a few of those ;). Corporate wife? Yes, where’s the dry cleaning bag…
I keep thinking of the post upstream where the person was distressed at the woman in the corporate office who kept wearing short skirts and showing her underwear. My takeaway is that that costume is working for her, because she’s still there. Just like that famous lawyer back in the, um, 80s who had the ponytail and it was such a thing-a guy with a ponytail in the courtroom, oh the scandal. He absolutely used that to his advantage.
Of course scanty revealing clothing is a distraction, it can be distracting to other women, it can be distracting to other men which is why most businesses and many schools have a dress code. The mantra I hear, “I am more than a distraction” basically says that yes scanty clothing can be a distraction and is one of the ironies I find with feminist advocates these days. And there is a happy middle ground…but sometimes I think people find it ‘more fun’ to politicize arguments and make them gender based. Let’s face it mens’ clothing hasn’t changed much in over a hundred years if not more and I guarantee you if high school boys and businessmen started wearing jock straps with their collared polo shirts to work there would be a revolt and the shoe would be on proverbial other foot.
@momofthreeboys And what about young women who dress conservatively and professionally, and are still called sluts, or shrill, or emasculating, or crazy, because they are vocal about women’s reproductive rights, or women’s rights in general?
I think anyone that is being called that by someone should either brush it off as “they are crazy” or needs to take a look in the mirror. I have to admit that there are young women…not many…that are a huge turn-off because they are always screaming and yelling and angry about something and sometimes not listening to anyone but their own voices. I’ve seen them on campuses and my boys talk about it. I know I wouldn’t want to associate with a guy with anger issues or would never listen to anyone but the voice inside his own head or was manipulative. If someone were screaming and yelling at you everytime you crossed a campus you might hurl an invective. News flash to young women…these days young men age 30 are more “clued in” than ever before, they just came through K-12 public school education for the most part. They are more enlightened about birth control and more willing to use condoms. They totally expect to be part of a two-income household and compete with women for jobs and they expect to hold up their share of child raising and household responsibilities and just like the angry women, are simply looking for companionship in my opinion looking down upon my three twenty something males two of whom are sadly women wary and I really hope I didn’t contribute to that.
Today’s feminism promotes women to be angry. If you’re a woman and you’re not angry, you are either seen as stupid or not checking your privilege enough. It’s rather sad. So no, I don’t think anyone should slut-sham or badmouth anyone…but if it happens to you, blow it off or check yourself especially if you are white, educated college woman…there are ills and inequities in our country but not to the magnitude that privileged college women can even fathom.