Thanks for proving my point so exquisitely, @momofthreeboys . Feminism is all well and good, if only they’d be nicer about it. In a word, more feminine.
@LasMa totally agree with you. Labeling women as shrill, crazy, angry is just a good old fashioned way to neutralize them and their message.
As a historian, I just have to say that politely asking for change has never, ever worked.
When we lose the right to control over our own bodies, anger seems an appropriate response, to me at least.
213 BunsenBurner: excellent link. It's about power and bullies, not provocative dress.
Neither does screaming and yelling at the wrong people.
And as an observer, I can tell you that getting steamingly angry about “micro transgressions” means you lose much of your support. If everything is highly offensive, nothing is highly offensive. There are some who don’t seem to understand why picking your battles is a useful strategy, to make your words and actions count.
Interesting that I have a 20 something son who has zero problems with the young women his age. Many healthy relationships with women including best friends and romantic interest(s). He goes to a liberal school, he’s actively involved in leadership on campus and, in such a role, has had to deal with instances/problems on campus that classmates have had. He has more problems with the attitudes/behavior of some young men his age. I’ve heard NO issues whatsoever from him with the behavior of young women his age. Zero. Zilch. To hear that your boys are bothered enough to be wary of women in their 20s, @momofthreeboys, sounds really odd to me. But, having been raised in a family of independently minded women, maybe my kid is used to it. Both my son and husband are pretty ardent feminists themselves.
^^ditto, though my boys are older.
Are there any other parents on this thread whose sons are wary of women? just curious…
@momofthreeboys So in your world, the following are effective tactics for gaining rights?
“Please sir, may I have equal work for equal pay?”
“Please sir, may I have family leave?”
“Please sir, may I have contraception covered by my insurance because it’s essential for my health?”
As Romani correctly points out, being polite has never worked to gain rights. Never. The powerful do not give up their privileges because they are asked sweetly. It takes a fight.
Do you know why you were able to vote last November? Because a bunch of angry, unfeminine, not-nice women acquired that right for you. They did not ask “Please sir, may we have the vote?” They demanded it, and they were not sweet about it.
But Harvard professor and Pulitzer-Prize winning historian Laurel Thatcher Ulrich said it far better than I can:
“Well-behaved women seldom make history.”
@doschicos, you never know…your son might be surprised one day. My son, liberal to the point of forwarding us videos to explain our white privilege, and why everyone is a victim except for straight white men, got a little taste of feminist attack awhile ago. Just talking about a.non-controversial viewpoint on facebook, that did support some men on a topic, he was harshly attacked by several women. Some people cannot disagree without personal attacks. He was pretty startled, but it was eye opening for him. There shall be no dissenting viewpoints from men allowed!
I’ve been in what I consider pretty radical spaces for a long time and I can count on one finger the number of women I’ve met like what’s been described here.
But then again, people probably have selective memories.
*I just asked the 2 26 year old men in my household and they said they haven’t experienced what mo3b is describing.
MOTB: I am so sorry your sons are “women wary” especially if they want female life partners. That would just be heartbreaking to me as a mother.
I think you are correct to be concerned and I would think you still have time to influence them to have a more positive response, if you choose to do so.
Since, like you, I only have sons, I really treasure my relationship with my daughter-in-law. And I hope you get to experience that.
True, however sometimes it takes only a few bad experiences to make a strong impression, particularly when you’re young.
Not to worry folks…the kids are quite mentally healthy and all have a tight circle of guy and girl “friends”. Do not misconstrue the word wary with fearful…it means cautious which is not a bad thing. People that marry later in their twenties and early thirties tend to have a lower divorce rate. I probably made them cautious with my condom lectures and don’t believe if a girl tells you she’s on the pill and don’t get caught in a title IX investigation just because a hook-up opportunity presents itself and don’t marry until you’ve experienced life on your own and all that. I crack up laughing sometimes reading posts…
And alh I hope young women are wavy of guys that are players, but I wonder if some women still don’t chase that “bad boy.” I don’t know…didn’t raise daughters.
Same with my D and her friends of both genders. In her peer groups since HS, it is axiomatic that women are entitled to equal rights, that they have not always had those rights and in some matters still don’t, and that the anti-equality forces are still strong and determined, and are to be resisted.
D’s boyfriend and the other young men she knows are far more likely to be found at a Planned Parenthood protest than they are to be found complaining that women are strange and a little dangerous. They get it. They are allies.
" I probably made them cautious with my condom lectures and don’t believe if a girl tells you she’s on the pill"
My condom lectures were geared to both my son and my daughter with the message that they were the safest thing to use to prevent STDs. No love without the glove. These talks weren’t premised by a “girls might lie” thought process.
Pills don’t protect from STIs. That’s really the only message that should be necessary for condom use every time.
Asked and answered.
Hmm, all these perfect current and future parents on here. Must be nice…too late for my boys. 