You know, if one of my male coworkers showed up one day dressed in a tux like Tony Bennett, that would be pretty odd.
I think we all know that how performers dress onstage is not how most people dress for work.
I don’t know the answer to this, just trying to think about and understand. Is there any way that the way some women dress contributes to the objectification of women in general? Is wearing stiletto heels and a very short skirt that doesn’t allow one to move comfortably because she truly feel comfortable in those clothes or because peer norms and the approval of men requires it? If that is considered the vision of what is defined as an attractive female versus attire that allows women to move more comfortably, are women accepting the male-dominated norms of attractiveness to their own detriment?
Too much shaming. I don’t mean people demean each other too much, I mean it has lost all meaning bc it is just a term people throw around too much. People “pet shame” now…so it’s almost a joke.
To me it is a silly PC word that ends up making mountains and molehills into the same thing.
@busdriver11 I’m with you.
I don’t disagree with what bus driver is saying either. But I also tend to agree with HRSMom that words are losing their original meaning. What is so difficult about not projecting something you don’t want to project?..that is on the individual. Individuals have the right to do whatever they want within society’s laws, but no one has the inherent right to stop other people from their individual opinions. Now the language…sure good, as a society, to suppress offensive labeling, but that does not change a person’s underlying opinion…probably not. We may eliminate the “s” word, but it doesn’t mean that the underlying opinion of the person passing judgement will change.
@alh wrote
I am boggled by the idea that clothing is still considered a signal for sexual availability. I’ve been hit on by both genders no matter what I’m wearing, and sometimes I’m literally wearing a smock covered in paint-not sexy!
Really over the whole being judged by what you wear argument. The fact that the dress code at the girls’ school is 99% focused on what the girls wear is evidenced by the boys deliberately wearing clothing against the dress code just to show that it’s being reinforced with a big gender bias. They guys will wear something in, and then switch clothes with the girls and then point out that they were not flagged, but the girls were.
Progress is slow, but it’s there.
Yes, women have the right to wear what they want to wear. Other people have the right to think what they want to think. The problem comes when those thoughts become words and actions.
For example: A young woman has the right to wear a short skirt. A young man has the right to think that’s attractive. The problem comes when the young man decides that the short skirt is an invitation to sexual assault. And the further problem comes when other young men cheer the rapist on. Or when judges and juries decide that “boys will be boys” and give the rapist a slap on the wrist, if that. Or when certain media outlets run stories about how she was “asking for it” – or in the parlance of this thread, she was “sending the wrong message.” In other words, slut shaming.
Clothing choice is not tantamount to saying “It’s OK to rape me.” It just isn’t. And if a man declines to control himself around a woman, I’d say the one who needs to be educated/scolded/punished is the man.
And BTW, sexual assault isn’t about sex. It’s about power. Most men aren’t stars, but you can insert “boss,” “professor,” “captain of the football team,” or any other traditionally male position of power. Sexual assault and slut-shaming are both powerful tools in the unending quest to keep women in their proper place – subservient and pleasing to men.
Removed political content
ED
Like most men, I enjoy looking at attractive women and I believe I’m innately wired to want to have sex with as many of them as possible. But truthfully, just thinking of getting naked and having sex with someone other than my wife makes me uncomfortable.
LasMa, Love what you say.
Girls have been watching their mom’s curve, feminity/sexuality for over a decade before they get their curves developed. If they love their new feminity/sexuality and want to flaunt it, is it projecting anything? Isn’t it time for the society to learn that they are not suggest anything? They are just enjoying their body themselves? Boys get to show off their developing masculinity in so many ways and feel good about it. When girls do the same, they are shamed or told to be careful. How does that play into their self esteem? Being who you are should be something to be proud of not ashamed of.
I wouldn’t call it slut shaming, but I do wonder where the clothing industry is going. There’s just not much left to cut our or skinny down. And I don’t like it on men any more than I do women.
(too late to edit) Also not about sex: discrimination against women in employment, housing, education, finance, the law, and other arenas. Women who achieve at a high level in the workplace, in academia, in politics are STILL subjected to attacks on their femininity. A good-sized contingent of American men simply can’t handle the thought of a smart, accomplished, powerful woman. If the woman is young, slut-shaming is the weapon of choice. If she’s not, she’ll be called “shrill” and “emasculating,” and her hair/makeup/style will be a constant subject of discussion (even if the comments are positive, this is a bar which men don’t have to clear). Again, it’s all about making it more difficult for women to achieve than it is for men, which in turn is all about preserving male power.
I, too, wonder when we women get to be free of the make-up, outfits, hair, shoes critique. What age? I’m 47 and still waiting.
It’s not enough to be smart, hard-working, educated . . . you should also aspire to be fabulous. [sarcasm]
And I’m not overly fat or un-stylish. I just get tired of it.
Ever watched a music awards show and noticed how differently they dress than they do at the Oscars? It’s often bizarre and outrageous. Who can forget Lady Gaga’s meat dress? I was invited by a record producer to a party for Stevie Nicks. It was a business invite, not social, so I wore a suit. Never felt so out of place in my life. LOL.
Every industry has their style of dress. If you fly into San Jose (Silicon Valley) and pay attention to the way people are dressed, you likely to notice an inordinate amount of wrinkled t-shirts and jeans. The makers of irons and ironing boards aren’t making any money there. 
http://www.marketplace.org/2014/01/28/tech/silicon-valley-has-dress-code-you-better-believe-it
But on the original topic . . . in the circle of people I know, the term is typically used in discussing the hypocrisy of shaming women for the same behavior men usually get a high-five for, not for how they dress.
Let’s keep debauchery and sexual assault separate here. If “they let you”, it is not assault. Have you never seen or heard of the way groupies aggressively approach bands, actors, professional athletes…stars? If a groupie offers her body and the star accepts the offer, that’s not assault. Gross, maybe, sad, maybe, but not assault.
But just as all men aren’t predators, all women aren’t groupies. We need to avoid accusing all men, and men need to avoid assuming all women are sexually available to them. Not so hard.
“I, too, wonder when we women get to be free of the make-up, outfits, hair, shoes critique.”
Any time they choose IMO. I don’t wear makeup or high heels, and am not a fashion plate. Did fine in my career but I did work my tush off. But other than working hard and using my brains, I refused to play the rest of the games.
Honestly, I think women can be more critical of other women in these areas than men are sometimes.
I would rather see someone “un fabulous” walk into my office for a job than someone with a super short skirt and/or cleavage. It’s not shaming, it’s expecting professional dress. So @SouthFloridaMom9 I’m more apt to hire the one with boring shoes than the one in the killer outfit that is totally inappropriate for my office.
I’m just not sure we teach ppl what is appropriate anymore. If you say anything, YOU are the problem. Silliness. A high school girl in a short dress? Awesome. When she comes in for a job, that dress better be much closer to her knee tho!
very true @doschicos (women hard on other women).
Phew that’s good news @HRSMom! 
Agree.
Sorry I went off on a little tangent.
I’m 25. I’ve been free of make up and shoe critiques to my face at least my whole life.
I do not wear makeup. Not a lick. Never have and neither has my mom.
I wear tennis shoes in the winter and sandals in the summer. I don’t own heels. Neither does my mom. They’re so bad for you.
I dress casual and comfortable. If anyone has ever had a problem with that, they’ve never said it to me. If they ever did, I’d probably laugh at them.
I’ve also never interviewed for a job that I didn’t get an offer for so I must do something right with regards to professional dress.
How old is Greta van Susteren?
^^i have a woman crush on Greta!!!
Funny side story - whenever I would criticize Fox News to my H (for the blatant babe-fest that it is), Greta was his go-to counter-argument. Well . . . now what?