What Extra Curricular Activities (ECs) Top Schools REALLY want

2boysima · May 11, 2006, 6:14pm

“I just can’t understand how more information would not be useful.”

While we’re at it, what about more information about essays? Why don’t the ad com’s tell us exactly what we should write and how we should write it?

EC’s enter into the very subjective area of college admissions. While there is sometimes anecdotal information in most college publications (alumnae newsletters – usually the Fall issues has interesting tidbits about the entering class, student newspapers etc.) the type of “outstanding” EC’s vary from year to year.

Some schools ask applicants to rank the EC’s based on interest (not time spent) – which also impacts the admission process! Listing “Quiz Bowl Champion” above “Habitat for Humanity Coordinator” is probably not a good idea – even if it’s true. So…could they please tell us which EC’s to list first, too?

calmom · May 11, 2006, 6:40pm

True, but the fact that Bard is actively recruiting science students is all over their web site – they couldn’t possibly make that more clear. They pretty much say that their IDP (Immediate Decision Plan) favors students in math & sciences. So this is an example of a college specifically giving out the information you are looking for.

It is also true, however, that it always helps to be strong in an academic area where the college is weaker but has essential programs. By essential I mean the sort of programs that all colleges want in basic, core areas. I mean, no college is going to consider dropping biology because of a shortage of bio majors – instead they are going to try to bolster that department and attract more students. This is not the same, of course, with more esoteric areas of study – for example, many colleges have dropped their Russian programs over the last decade and this was something my daughter had to be particularly alert to. For example, Macalester’s Russian program is in flux: there are people fiercely trying to save it, and at the same time talk from the administration of dropping it.

I don’t doubt that the information is useful… I just don’t think its hard to find. I found it very easy to get a lot of info on line. I do realize that the info on line was not always accurate or up to date – colleges continually try to portray themselves in a better light, so you would have to follow up the surface information with some investigation. But I found it easy to take a list of what my daughter was interested in or where her potential “hooks” lay and use Google & college web site search functions to zere in on specific information. The only limitation was where the interest was too general: “what colleges have good history departments?” or “which colleges have Div III basketball teams?” may simply yield too many results to be of use in narrowing things down.

Also, I think there is a problem with looking for “data” for EC’s - that is, statistical information - because part of what makes something a good hook may be its rarity. I mean, the college only needs a limited amount students for its crew teams, and it needs to have many more rowers than coxswains… but a good coxswain is pretty important. However, if you had an athletic roster showing how many were coming in every year… you wouldn’t see very many. But it would be a mistake to conclude from the numbers that the college only wants rowers.

Again, the colleges are casting a wide net, and for the most part they do NOT want too many of any one type of student, whatever they are looking for – and at the same time, they really do place very high value on many attributes where they are only looking for a few.

atlantamom · May 11, 2006, 7:06pm

Calmom,

I don’t think the information would be useful in terms of determining “hooks.” A hook is something very special or development, URM etc. I think that information about what type of ECs and positions of leadership of admitted students would be useful.

I agree with you that much information can be discovered by digging around. We and my son did that and felt rather good about what he ultimately learned. I think my concern is more for other folks. I hear kids and parents say things all the time that I doubt are true about this school or that school. I think that lots of folks really don’t understand the level of acheivement or type of ECs needed for admission to certain schools (not referring to CC folks). Published information about type of ECs, number of students in various categories, level of acheivement in different ECs etc would be great information, I think.

For example, dance, which has been talked about on the thread. Wouldn’t it be interesting to know how many admittees had significant acheivement in dance and what type of acheivement?

2boysinma,

There is no need to be sarcastic. This thread has been rather civilized, for the most part. I think that discussions and debates should be polite. I never said that colleges should tell anyone what they want – e.g., 3 tennis stars, 20 debate team captains, etc. To imply that anyone here advocating for more information is that stupid is, of course, insulting.

BTW, there are plenty of counselors and paid professionals out there who do tell kids what to write or not write for their essays. Where do they get that information? For the most part, from books published by former admissions officers or other such sources, some reliable and some not. Was it bad for those former admissions officers to write about the admissions process? How many people have read and relied on the information in some of most well known of these books?

Anyway, I don’t really have any more to say on this topic. I doubt such EC information will ever be available in any other form than it has been.

pengwinsrawk · May 11, 2006, 8:18pm

As a graduating high school senior, I have one tip for all girls who are determined to make it into their top school:

Golf! The competition is not as fierce as it is in other sports. Spending 1-2 hours after school every day at the practice range, and playing a round of golf during the weekends can get you to a very impressive playing level. Here the door is open to scholarships, recruiting, state, etc. Of course this takes hard work, but I really think golf is so much easier than any other sport. Focus on this and great academics and volunteering leadership and I feel that it’s the best way to get to your first-choice school.

I feel like orchestra and all the other extracurriculrs were fun experiences, but a part of me wishes I focused on golf and got to shoot around the 70s. If this had happened I could have definitely gotten a lot more scholarships: Women’s Western Golf Foundation, the city’s Golf Association scholarships, etc. There are just so many more opportunites that golf presents if you get to that very attainable level of playing, and once again the competition isn’t that crazy!

calmom · May 11, 2006, 8:44pm

I think you are attributing a level of objectivity to the process that simply doesn’t exist. Barnard mentioned on its web site that this year’s class includes “a world champion Irish dancer [and] a dancer with the Boston Conservatory” – but I don’t think that all dancers need to be world champions or dance with established companies. I think that any serious dancer would kind of know where she or he stands within the dance world in terms of accomplishments or level of involvement.

It really isn’t about what the student has actually done so much as how it is presented, in any case. It was important enough for my daughter to submit a DVD and attach a dance resume that listed roles she has danced and works she has choreographed. I don’t know if her accomplishments are all that amazing - they just look better when listed that way. In other words, she could have just listed “ballet” and put number of hours in the alloted space on the application form, but she elected to go into more detail and make a point of showing that dance is very important to her, even though she does not intend to become a dance major. She backed that up with enough info that would show the college that she was also a very well qualified dancer – but I honestly don’t think any particular accomplishment was important.

On the other hand, my D. also participated in student government and Mock trial – these items were just included on the EC list with no elaboration. Another kid might have taken the same activities and gone into more depth. For my d., these activities were part of the “rounding out” process; that is, to show that my d. also has a life beyond dance. But the sales pitch she was making to colleges was “dancer with a life” – not “future lawyer & politician who dances”. A kid with a very similar profile could easily have gone the 2nd route.

So then it comes down more to undertanding how to fashion a good application than on focus on the particular activities. That is, assuming that the student does have at least one true “passion” or area where there is significant involvement, how should that be presented?

And though I don’t agree with the tone of 2boysima’s post, I do agree with the ultilmate conclusion. We are dealing with a subjective process. The goal is to develop a theme and present it well, so that a good sense of the student’s personality and interests emerges. The Ivies admit many kids whose EC’s don’t win huge accolades, and I am sure they turn down many who have achieved a good deal within their chosen EC. Barnard didn’t admit the Irish dancer because she won the championship; they admitted her because her application stood out, and the championship is just one aspect of it. But maybe it was her essay that really put her over the top – we don’t know because the dance championship is just one piece of data. I do know that Barnard admits a whole lot of dancers with rather minimal level of accomplishment, though probably not because they are dancers – its just that I wouldn’t want to see some kid think that she couldn’t get into Barnard because she started ballet late and only took class two afternoons a week and wasn’t yet en pointe.

It isn’t about the EC… it’s about the PERSON.

DRJ4 · May 11, 2006, 10:28pm

Calmom,

You have a clear point of view on this subject - you want the colleges to have more latitude to fill their needs, and you consistently view this as a subjective process. You may be right, but you also may be wrong. The process may be structured for some colleges. I have a hard time believing that sought-after colleges engage in a completely subjective process. They simply don’t have the time and manpower to do that with 10,000-20,000 applications, so they must have an initial screening process.

We will never know without more transparency.

So far, this discussion has focused on “Is there any reason why colleges should provide more information?”, but at this point the better question is “Why shouldn’t they provide more information?” There may be several good reasons not to provide information but I haven’t heard any that show it will hurt colleges if their admissions practices become more transparent. “They’ve always done it this way” and “private colleges should be able to make decisions any way they want” seems to sum it up, and that isn’t convincing to me

2boysima · May 12, 2006, 12:03am

I apologize for the tone of my previous post, but…the reality is that the process at most of the elite schools is subjective, with a couple of quasi-objective criteria, like test scores, GPA and rank in class. I call these “quasi” objective because they are used in the context of the school, unusual circumstances for the specific student etc…so they also become subjective.

There is an initial review that eliminates some applicants from the thousands that apply. The many books written by former admissions officers tell us about that process. In a long time lurking on this site, I’ve read a link to a wonderful explanation by the Director of Admissions at MIT about their admissions process. As well as the blog by an admissions officer at MIT. An admissions officer at Johns Hopkins also has commented on CC – and I’m sure there are others. On the Princeton and Harvard sites, there are “letters” from the admissions directors that actually give strong hints at both the quasi-objective and subjective criteria they’re looking for.

A number of years ago I worked in graduate school admissions at a “top” university. I was drawn to the “quirky” applicants. Someone else was drawn to the academic superstars. So…each class had a few quirky applicants – that I was able to advocate for and could show that there was something on their transcript or in their background clearly proved they could do the level of work required. And, my buddy who liked the academic superstars tried to show me something that proved his favorites had a personality. I got some of mine admitted, and he got some of his admitted. But…not too many of the academic superstars that I initially reviewed got admitted, and not too many of the quirky applicants that he initially reviewed got admitted (unless one of us had some free time and looked over the others “still thinking about” pile.) Reviewing much of the literature that’s been written about admissions today , I think there’s actually been very little change in the process.

But, this thread is about EC’s. And I just don’t think there’s very much “objective”, measurable information to be provided by the schools. Most top schools want kids with EC’s. They want the kid who’s a clear well rounded leader, and they also want the kid who has thrown all of their passion into one thing. However, the application from Joe Jones who’s well rounded may not grab the ad com members reading that application. And the application from Jim Smith who has devoted every waking non-classroom moment of his high school life to setting up a clothing distribution program for the poor that’s been duplicated in 16 other schools may not grab the readers of his application.

I think it’s very difficult for many parents and students who have worked so hard in high school to accept that the process is so subjective. If a kid gets all A’s, has over the top test scores and leadership and unique EC’s… they should get into any school. They’ve certainly met the criteria to apply…but…since the process isn’t objective, there’s no way to guarantee they’ll get in. Even the pricey admissions counselors can’t guarantee it.

DRJ4 · May 12, 2006, 1:25am

2boysima,

Thanks for contributing a thoughtful response. It seems to me that this discussion has evolved beyond basic ECs, but you may be rght to bring the original topic back into focus. I apologize to the OP if my comments have moved this too far off-topic.

My problem with your comments and many of the others is your repeated use of the words like “the many books”, “they give strong hints”, and especially “I think”. Your personal anecdotes are interesting but they don’t suggest a subjective system. What you describe is an arbitrary system, and to me that’s a prime reason for transparency in the process.

We all have our opinions about what colleges are looking for and, to a certain extent, we all think we are right. In fact, we bet our children’s college careers on our ability to figure out what is going on. My days of sending a child off to college are over but I feel an obligation to make it a better system for those who follow. I could post at CC my insights about college admissions (insights which may or may not be correct) for the next 30 years and reach a small fraction of college applicants. Or colleges could provide basic information to everyone. I think the latter approach is better.

And there would still be a place for CC. People who come here now would continue to read and post to gain every possible insight, but those insights would be informed instead of speculation.

2boysima · May 12, 2006, 2:17am

I’ll take out the “I think” and re-write: Regarding EC’s, there isn’t much “objective” measurable information to be provided by the schools.

DRJ4 –
Other than the Common Set of data that is already provided, what is the basic information (objective and measurable) you’d like to see colleges provide?

anitaw · May 12, 2006, 6:20am

What I think most interesting about this thread is the notion that kids ‘should’ do anything in particular- or that they can. Or that parents ‘can’ or ‘should’ influence them. What degree of strategic planning is needed for college admissions if these presumptions are correct? Well, first there is selection of sperm and egg both. Next, proxmity to fencing clubs, orphans or schools with golf and french horn instruction. Finally, no later than 5th grade it would seem, the college list should be made so that the in and after school schedule is refined to reflect the key institutional initiatives of the target schools.

Bleh. I don’t care if colleges want kids who are team players. Wanting it doesn’t always make it so. The book “Blessings of a Skinned Knee” is filled wisdom about parenting. The absolute best metaphor is that of an unlabeled package of seeds. You plant them, water them and make sure they are not too infested with bugs- maybe just enough so it toughens them a bit. Then you enjoy the flowers that bloom (which you could never have anticipated having never seen a label). I might have thought, given family predilictions, that my children would have been one way. But, I have never been disappointed that they are another, and I am fully certain that I would never want to make any decisions about rethinking their passions, or encourage them to make any decisions, based on what a theoretical college or college counselor 6-8 years down the road thinks they ‘should’ do. Skills, talents, predilictions are not interchangeable. Expose children to as broad a scope of options as is reasonable, and then follow their lead.

I should add that this resolutely ‘to thine own self be true’ paid off with happy dividends for my children. They are interesting people, fun people, not burnt out people. Because they are comfortable with themselves, what they are and are not good at, they are great at working with others, too. Directors, coaches, etc. have consistently told me that they are always able to help others do their best. For what it is worth, they also got into excellent colleges where they are doing very well.

TheGFG · May 12, 2006, 7:36am

anitaw, I think in our better moments every parent chatting here agrees with your post. The problem, though, which I and many others have spoken about elsewhere on CC, is that colleges are giving the strong impression that they are seeking a particular mold or stereotype. While colleges used to only consider whether the student’s level of academic achievement would enable them to succeed at their institution, now they are looking for an investment as well. Therefore, they want leaders, take charge kids with initiative, future movers and shakers, accomplished community servants, and students who have already achieved at the state or national level in some endeavor. This way, they can maintain campus activities and are likely to graduate adults who will bring glory and honor to the school name. What parents are trying to figure out is how to let our kids grow and be true to themselves, yet still manage to demonstrate on an application that they basically fit this mold. My S, for example, is not especially interested in most kinds of community service or volunteerism. He’s not a bad kid lacking in compassion, but you wouldn’t find him cuddling sick babies in a hospital. He’d rather be playing sports. At his HS, it wasn’t enough that he was varsity captain, a student senator, helps his little sister who’s disabled, and works for pay in the community on weekends–those activities don’t count as community service and so he won’t be in National Honor Society this year. I’m not at all disappointed about that as a parent, but with regard to his HS career, what did that mean? Well, as a result, he missed out on applying for the majority of scholarships for which he was otherwise eligible, since they all had a strong community service component. Second, we suspect (and we can only suspect) that he was rejected from his 1st choice school because of this, since they strongly emphasized community service in their admission presentation. Yet, we’ve all heard anecdotes of the kid who lacked this or that supposedly important attribute and still “got in.” I think parents are just trying to figure out how to help their kids package their strengths and minimize their alleged “deficits” so that they have good college options to choose from.

Vango · May 12, 2006, 9:07am

TheGFC -

I second your post. When I was growing up, we did tons of community service. My mother had us, from an early age, rake the lawns of elderly neighbors, bring their garbage to the street, take food to them when they were sick, and sometimes just visit them when they were lonely. Several hours each week were spent on this kind of “service.” I thought it was a wonderful way to raise kids and have had my kids do the same in our neighborhood. I’m not a big fan of “a-thons”, because I would rather see teens do something productive rather than walk around a track for 24 hours. It seems like every other kid in my D’s HS starts their own charity and I believe, for the most part, it is done solely for the college resume.

Honestly, I have never encouraged my kids to go that route, because I feel that there is already a charity out there for just about everything and it seems silly to start up another organization to do more of the same. It is rare to come upon an original idea for a charity. Most of what these kids do can easily come under the umbrella of an existing organization.

That said, I suspect an adcom will probably place more weight on the service activities of the kid that started their own charity, rather than the kid that helps out the elderly in their own neighborhood. Even though my kids’ school requires community service hours, they would never, ever go to one of these neighbors and ask them to sign a letter stating that they helped them.

It seems sometimes that it always comes down to money. If you can say you raised several thousand dollars for a charity you created, that would be valued more than any man-hours put in helping someone in need.

Also, I’m not knocking the charitable endeavors of others - in the end, if it helps someone less fortunate (whatever the motives), I think that’s great. I just think that there are a lot of ways to help and they don’t need to be grandiose. It’s a shame that this “college frenzy” sometimes promotes the wrong motives.

Northstarmom · May 12, 2006, 10:24am

“That said, I suspect an adcom will probably place more weight on the service activities of the kid that started their own charity, rather than the kid that helps out the elderly in their own neighborhood. …
It seems sometimes that it always comes down to money. If you can say you raised several thousand dollars for a charity you created, that would be valued more than any man-hours put in helping someone in need.”

I think it really depends upon the situation. Certainly, a student who did what one did in my city – decided that high school students should build a Habitat for Humanities house – and got every high school in the city to contribute enough money and labor to construct a house – has provided a wonderful service, and has demonstrated lots of leadership that goes far above and beyond what even most adults with good leadership skills are able to do.

Similarly, a young person who has, for instance, mentored for several years an autistic neighborhood child, and has made a difference in the child’s life also has provided a wonderful service and had demonstrated compassion, leadership and patience beyond the capabilities of most people.

With either activity, it would be important for the student to write about the activity in their essay and to also have some kind of recommendation that attests to what they did. For the student whose leadership resulted in the house, their best recommendation probably would come from the school district or Habitat for Humanities.

For the student who helped the autistic child, their best recommendation probably would come from the child’s parent. A sincere letter from such a person would carry a lot of weight even if their parent wasn’t educated enough to write a sophisticated, elegant letter.

It is very rare that students do either kind of activities that require such major commitments, so a student who had done either types of these things and had documentation to back it up would probably stand out in most admission pools. I’ve served on scholarship committees and have seen lots of applications and recommendation letters, so I know what I’m talking about.

If a student were too modest to ask for a recommendation letter, they’d make a mistake. Neither college applications nor scholarship applications are modesty tests. It’s not unreasonable or selfish to ask someone who one has helped to write a recommendation. Probably such a person would be glad to give back to a kid who has helped them.

For a student to stand out for doing service work in their neighborhood, they’d have to do more than occasionally shoveling snow for an elderly neighbor. It’s wonderful when people do things like this, but it’s not something remarkable. In fact, it’s what many regard as being expected and neighborly, not going above and beyond.

I think the same thing is true for adults. I applied to a program recently that weighs leadership and volunteer service heavily. I didn’t bother to mention what I do for an elderly neighbor. I did mention the leadership that I have demonstrated when heading organizations like a parent-teacher organization, and I discussed the programs that I initiated and the impact they have had on many people.

As for raising money: It is remarkable when students or anyone has the leadership to get people to open their wallets. If a student on their own raised a great deal of money, that’s something to be celebrated.

I have seen students get applause for things that their parents actually did such as kids who win prizes for selling gift wrap and cookies that their parents actually sold. However, I think that colleges can tell the difference between fund raising things that were done by students and those done by Mommy and Daddy. One can tell the difference by the essay, the recommendation and the interview.

My own son was so affected when he heard about the tsunami that he decided to start a fund raising project. I was surprised because he had never done anything like that before. His initial idea was rejected by the school board, but he persisted, collaborated with another student and got his NHS involved, and it became the first school-wide fundraiser in recent memory at his school. The fundraiser was done as a competition between the classes, and the class that won got to have a representative pie the principal.

DRJ4 · May 12, 2006, 10:43am

2boysima,

I realize it’s difficult to read through a long thread like this so I will post the numbers of my comments that address the things I would like colleges to do. My primary suggestion is listed in post #204. My posts at ##195, 200, and 207 amplify my suggestions or give the reasons why I think this is important.

I don’t have a monopoly on this topic. While you are reviewing earlier posts I also encourage you to read the thoughtful comments by Atlantamom and TheGFG. I particularly appreciate TheGFG’s moving commentary and beautiful writing style.

StickerShock · May 12, 2006, 11:25am

Vango: I’m in 100% agreement. Well put.

anitaw · May 12, 2006, 11:39am

Any experienced teacher knows that when a class is chaotic and noisy, sometimes a teacher speaking in the quietest of voices can bring the class to a standstill- students striving to hear. OUr attention is naturally drawn to that which is, above and beyond a certain basic threshold, novel.

Look, there are hundreds of books and articles and everything else written on this topic. There are no secrets, no hidden puzzles to solve. There is no fixed equation. It is all about portraying what is novel about oneself, in all manners of presentation.

I fully appreciate the pressure to ‘package’- to make light of ‘deficits’ and to accentuate the positive. What I am trying to say is that making the conscious decision to minimize this aspect of the application process is liberating- to the extent that what emerges is fundamentally more novel, more scintillating and more genuine.

The helper of an autistic child writing well about what they have learned about life and communication and human connections as a result of the process has written their own best recommendation, and usurped the significance of NHS any day.

Not every kid is a mover and shaker, not every kid is going to be a mover and shaker. Trying to package the kid so that they fit a mold does not allow them to fully reveal their ‘best selves.’

DRJ4 · May 12, 2006, 11:48am

You might want to browse around the threads and comments here at CC. Kids are packaged these days, and packaged well.

2boysima · May 12, 2006, 12:19pm

DRJ4 –
In your earlier posts, you indicated you would like:

A school’s initial screening formula for GPA and Standardized Test
A list of Specific EC’s
Whether schools are specifically interested in students from disadvantaged backgrounds
“Other specific criteria”

1) Calmom did a pretty good job of explaining how transparent your requests already are. In the common data set, we can all see the range of SAT scores and GPA’s.

For example, from the Princeton University Common Set: Do you have a chance of getting into Princeton if your SAT scores are under 700? Yes…but of the class admitted, only about 25% had scores below 700. Do you have a chance of getting into Princeton if your GPA puts you below the top 10% of your class? Yes…but of the class admitted, only about 6% had a GPA below the top 10% of their class.

2) A list of specific EC’s: When you stated “colleges should identify the broad range of activities and academics they think are important…” I agree with you - and they do. It’s easy to find the EC’s a college views as valuable – there are just so many of them and they’re so subjective – an admissions committee can’t possibly produce a list.

How can you find this broad range of activities? Look at the profile of the admits on CC. Find out from your GC what the extra curriculars were of the kids admitted from your school. Go on a tour of the campus, and ask students there what their HS EC’s were. Look at copies of the student newspapers and alumni publications. All have both summarized and anecdotal info. about the entering classes EC’s.

For example, from a press release on the Mount Holyoke College Website regarding the class of 2009 (there’s stuff like this on every college’s website) <a href=“http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/comm/news/class_09.shtml:[/url]”>http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/comm/news/class_09.shtml:</a>
“The 505 new students who arrived on the Mount Holyoke campus in September have interests as varied as their ethnic backgrounds, reinforcing the Colleges commitment to achieving a diverse and accomplished student body of women…They have volunteered at Mother Teresas Home for the Dying and Destitute, secured a patent with the Chinese government, performed on Broadway, and won competitions in art, music, diving, and Ultimate Frisbee.”

3) I will get in trouble here for my sarcastic tone…but just about every Ivy had offered extensive public information about their free rides to students from disadvantaged economic backgrounds. This information couldn’t be more specific.

4) Don’t know quite what else you’re looking for.

Vango · May 12, 2006, 12:33pm

Northstarmom -

I think the problem that I am seeing is that many kids shy away the “quiet” volunteerism of helping people close to home in favor of doing something dramatic just because they know it will get them recognition. I may be a bit cynical about this because I see it happen with my D’s peers all the time. She happens to attend a very competitive school where at least half the kids apply to an Ivy. So these kids and their parents are definitely the kind that are into “packaging” (not everyone, but many).

It often seems like the kids will only do something if it moves them closer to the goal of ivy acceptance. This is evidenced by some of the questions and comments made by parents on college nights. After school, sports, other ECs, my D only has a limited number of hours a week to make a volunteer contribution. I would hate for her to think that raking an elderly neighbor’s leaves is an unworthy way to spend that time. However, even I can see that it is much more impressive to say “I built a house” than to say “I raked some leaves.”

Anyway, I think building a house with Habitat for Humanity is great. My complaint was directed more towards kids setting up “pseudo” charities just so they can put it on their resume, then hitting up the school community for money (very easy to do at my D’s school), and then letting their project die a quick death. It is similar to the millions of clubs founded at the school each year. Again, most kids do it just to put some “leadership” on their resume. The club doesn’t reflect an interest or passion, it’s just another thing they add to their resume. The same kinds of clubs get formed over and over again, just under slightly different names. And while many believe that the adcoms can see through this kind of thing, that is not necessarily true. Often the school (particularly private ones) wants to see as many kids get into ivy schools as possible, so they are complicit in the process.

As each year goes by, I learn more and more about the extent some parents and kids will go to to get into the school of their choice. I used to be shocked at how many parents did their kids homework (writing entire papers for them). Some have even been “caught” by the school, but there is no real repercussion. But some of the stuff that goes on is unbelieveable and makes Blair Hornsteine’s dad look like an angel.

The problem is, from what I have seen, the worst offenders are the ones that get accepted to the best schools. Which makes others want to copy their practices. I will continue to stand on my principles and have my D do things the honest way, but I guess I have to prepare her for the possibility that she won’t be accepted to the school of her choice. I just know that if she doesn’t get in, and she sees some of the kids that do, she will learn the lesson that “nice guys finish last.”

mathmom · May 12, 2006, 12:35pm

“For example, from the Princeton University Common Set: Do you have a chance of getting into Princeton if your SAT scores are under 700? Yes…but only about a 25% chance. Do you have a chance of getting into Princeton if your GPA puts you below the top 10% of your class? Yes…but only about a 6% chance.”

Actually, isn’t it even less than that? Since Princeton accepts less than 25% of the kids who apply in the first place. But I know what you’re getting at. :-)

What Extra Curricular Activities (ECs) Top Schools REALLY want

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