What Extra Curricular Activities (ECs) Top Schools REALLY want

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<p>We attended an info session where Marilee Jones stated that MIT was looking for SAT scores of 600 or above (yeah, right) and As and Bs and was that while a C would not disqualify a student, MIT would not be too happy either.
This sort of talk is a way for MIT to justify admitting someone who is “out of the box,” someone who has an unusual profile in which GPAs and SAT scores do not tell the whole story. But it gives a false impression to the many students who are not that unusual but think that they can be admitted with SAts in the 600 range.
This is not to criticize MIT, just to reinforce the point that transparency has its limits. It cannot account for the outlier. One would have not only to read the entire application but also know more about the entire pool of students to understand why student X was admitted but not student Y.</p>

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Five years ago, after reading the book “A is for Admissions” which focuses extensively on the AI (academic index) – my son announced to me that he had decided not to apply to any Ivies. Why? He thought he might have chance of getting in with his high test scores, but he didn’t want to apply to any school that would “look at him as a number.” So every school that had more than 2000 students was immediately dropped from his list. </p>

<p>I suppose it would keep parent happy if there were some prestige colleges that went by the numbers – in the same way that many public universities do. I mean, as a Californian, I knew for certain whether or not my kids would get into the UC system - you can even plug your numbers into a calculator on the web site to determine the qualifying number. </p>

<p>But I’m not so sure those schools would maintain their elite, prestige status. The truth is: numbers are easy to manipulate. The Ivies love to have kids who are highly motivated, natural high achievers – but I don’t think they really want stressed out kids who are product of extreme parental pressure and intensive tutoring. In fact, I think sometimes the anomolous results may be a result of a sense that the kid fits that pattern. I mean, face it – students choose schools in part because of the perception of campus life – and the Ivies are not going to sacrifice that to the grade grubbers.</p>

<p>I’ve stayed out of the more recent part of this discussion, because clearly those of us who accept that a good part of the admissions decision, especially for the elite colleges, is subjective will never convince others that there isn’t a “formula”. HYPMS could easily accept the top 25% of their applicants, and still have a student body of approx. the same character and qualifications as the one the end up with now. Unfortunately, in spite of their large endowments, they don’t have the space and resources to house and educate that many students. The process is not arbitrary, but it is subjective.</p>

<p>But, in response to Marite-- MIT information is even more transparent, and specific, than what Ms. Jones said in her talk. </p>

<p><a href=“MIT Institutional Research”>MIT Institutional Research;

<p>Common set data shows 64% of the students admitted in 2004/2005 had an SAT verbal of 700 - 800. 88% had an SAT math of 700-800. 31% had an SAT verbal of 600 - 700. 11% had an SAT math of 600 -700. 97% were in the top 10th of their HS graduating class.</p>

<p>These stats exist on the school’s websites, guides (that can be reviewed in libraries and guidance offices, don’t need to be purchased for those with less resources), sites like CC etc.</p>

<p>Based on an initial review of “are you qualified to apply” – If my child were interested in MIT and was in the top 10% of their class and had a 600 verbal and a 710 in math – MIT is probably a reach (as it is for everyone) but I wouldn’t discourage them from applying. However, if the 600 was in math, and the 710 verbal…they could be admitted to MIT, but the odds are not in their favor. MIT becomes a “super” reach.</p>

<p>good reply, blossom.</p>

<p>GFG, I should have added that there were websites that turned me off & my D off, individual campus visits that turned her off, mailers that turned her off. Sometimes that was insufficient information, sometimes that was perceived “attitude” (superiority), sometimes it was too much inappropriate or silly/irrelevant information. She didn’t apply to those schools. At the very least, when she believed that admissions guidelines were insufficient or nonexistent (or the academic program was poorly or minimally described), she did not apply. I’m not sure whether you thought before, or after application, that H was not “transparent” enough.</p>

<p>So it seems to me that people seeking transparency might know beforehand just how transparent a particular University is/is not. No one is forced to apply to an opaque institution. I’m not trying to be nasty; that’s just how I see it. We <em>are</em> consumers; we <em>do</em> have choices.</p>

<p>Two people apply for the same job. They both have the same number of years of “experience” in the field, working for comparable companies. They both are making about the same salary. They both have the same undergraduate and graduate degrees, from comparable schools. They’re both about the same age. </p>

<p>How does the employer decide which applicant to pick? After all, on paper their “stats” look pretty darn similar.</p>

<p>It comes down to the “non-stats” things — Applicant A’s resume did a little better job of highlighting his accomplishments, Applicant B’s recommendations seemed a little stronger, Applican’t A seemed friendlier and easier to work with in the interviews, Applicant B wore a more colorful tie to the interview…</p>

<p>Should employers be forced to list the “subjective” qualities that factor into the hiring decision? Imagine the lawsuits that would insue. :)</p>

<p>It isn’t much different in college admissions. We can all sit here forever debating whether it’s “fair” or not that subjective factors play a role, as well as how best to manipulate the subjective factors to our (or most likely our kids’) advantage, but in the end, the college/employer has to make a choice between two very comparable candidates. And, it’s likely that NEXT week or next year, when the employer is hiring again or the admissions committee is sorting through applications, and finds two equally qualified candidates the “subjective” factor that worked this week is going to be different because there’s a whole new crop of applicants.</p>

<p>I agree with Susan’s on-target statement at the beginning of this thread: it’s not about trying to choose the “right” extracurriculars or the “best” classes for college admissions. It’s about doing what you do do well, and presenting it in the best manner possible. Then, choose your college list wisely, looking for the best match you can figure out between you and colleges at varying levels of selectivity, understanding that you CAN NOT CONTROL NOR PREDICT EVERYTHING.</p>

<p>This is a very individual process. Blanket statements like “varsity athletics is a better EC to have than being editor of the high school paper” are meaningless because they are just that: blanket statements that ignore the host of characteristics that make up each applicant, each applicant’s application, the applicant pool in any particular year at any particular college, and the needs and desires of any particular college. By the same token, people claiming that they or their child got into a particular college because they were XYZ, are pretty meaningless for making future predictions about anyone else unless you were privvy to seeing the full application and sitting in on the actual admissions committee meeting where that applicant was put in the “admit” pile. </p>

<p>Bottomline: Don’t spend time and energy worrying about what got others into college; better to invest that time and energy focusing on how to best show what YOU or your child are offering.</p>

<p>I have not read this entire thread…must admit I wanted to see what Carolyn wanted to add after 24 or 25 screens of posts…</p>

<p>Carolyn,
my response to your post # 365 is Amen…I echo your message “what meetings, groups, activities, events, sports, volunteering do YOU like to do?”…which of these things do you NOT resent having to attend…those are the things that you probably excel at for some reason or another…and those are the ones that need to be exploited, communicated, ENJOYED…
I remain haunted by a comment from a dean…about kids at a top school, that these kids were always afraid of being exposed as not being who they profess to be…in other words, all the activities and awards and accomplishments are very difficult to sustain and maintain. True passions are easier to maintain and sustain…</p>

<p>Also understand, not every kid is ready to go at the start of senior year in HS…at packaging and selling themselves. If the best education is really important, then you will have another chance after 4 years of undergraduate work where you really apply yourself. </p>

<p>I know of a man who went to Harvard, did his graduate work at Stanford, discovered and patented things while back at Harvard… and ultimately left for a small, religious college in the middle of the country. He took all his grants with him…at the end of the day, his passion for teaching was more important than his passion for day in, day out research… one has to stay open to new approaches, other means to an end. </p>

<p>One cannot really fake intellectual curiosity or community involvement or true leadership. </p>

<p>It is VERY hard to be true to oneself in HS…but, that trait is VERY valuable in college and in “real” life. The sooner one listens to one’s heart, the better off one is…just do your best every day… and you will have very good choices, regardless of where in your lifeline you find yourself.</p>

<p>Amen, Maineparent. </p>

<p>Keep in mind that there IS intrinsic value just in using high school as a time to explore different interests without worrying “gee, is it going to look bad that last year I played varsity football but this year I’m curious about what it’s like to work behind the scenes on my school’s play?” or “Will Harvard like it better if I play in all-state orchestra or work with the homeless?”</p>

<p>Come on, folks. Don’t try to choose or make your kids choose activities simply because they are “better” for college. </p>

<p>Give yourselves and your child permission to explore, to try different things, to find out who you/they are. That’s what high school is supposed to be for (and college for that matter), not endlessly calculating your chances of getting into the “best” college.</p>

<p>Because, frankly, a strong sense of knowing who you are is ultimately more important in terms of finding and getting into the right college than any specific extracurricular, AP class or award checked off on your list of “must do’s”. </p>

<p>I’d place money on the fact that what successful applicants to “top schools” have in common is not any specific activity or activities, but rather a well-developed sense of themselves in the world and as a result, who they are comes through clearly in their essays, interviews, recommendations, and entire application package.</p>

<p>Admissions committees are looking for kids who know who they are beyond just a laundry list of activities – kids who aren’t afraid to take risks, learn something new, laugh at themselves. And, that can’t be faked by falsely pursuing “best” activites or “best” high school curriculums – a sense of yourself can only be developed by following your own dreams and interests, and learning how to deal with adversity as well as success. </p>

<p>Extracurriculars don’t get admitted to college: people do.</p>

<p>My advice: ignore this thread. Don’t worry about which extracurriculars top schools supposedly want. Just follow your own interests, explore your world, and stop worrying about being perfect. Try to have fun along the way if you can. Most of all, be true to yourself, not to the expectations others might try to impose on you. If you don’t get into a “top” college, you’ll likely get into a “good” one – and you’ll know which colleges are “good” ones by how well they fit who you are.</p>

<p>Cheers and whistles for Carolyn’s posts, as always.</p>

<p>There’s a real simple way to do EC’s that will get you into a good college…just do what you enjoy.</p>

<p>If you find an EC you like, you are naturally going to become more involved. Never do anything just because it looks good on a resume. They’re looking for someone who is very involved in something, and dedicates a good amount of time to it. Half-heartedly joining something that will look good on your resume is not going to impress anyone, it’s quite easy to see from recs and essays how passionate you are about what you do, so it really is a waste…I know some people in high school that did this, it didn’t get them anywhere, and they really didn’t seem to have a good time. So explore your interests, find something you love, have fun. Your enjoyment leads to further involvement, and yeah, your application get’s better, but don’t make that your main motivation.</p>

<p>I have posted this link in one other thread. It talks about the sources of talent, and how one really becomes ‘talented’ at something. I highly recommend reading it because it directly deals with college admissions.
This is from the New York Times: I’m not entirely sure if it’s alright to copy it from the page, but I have cited it so…</p>

<p>In addition, I have found that all my harvard friends were invovled in All state music.</p>

<p>Freakonomics
A Star Is Made</p>

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By STEPHEN J. DUBNER and STEVEN D. LEVITT
Published: May 7, 2006</p>

<p>The Birth-Month Soccer Anomaly</p>

<p>If you were to examine the birth certificates of every soccer player in next month’s World Cup tournament, you would most likely find a noteworthy quirk: elite soccer players are more likely to have been born in the earlier months of the year than in the later months. If you then examined the European national youth teams that feed the World Cup and professional ranks, you would find this quirk to be even more pronounced. On recent English teams, for instance, half of the elite teenage soccer players were born in January, February or March, with the other half spread out over the remaining 9 months. In Germany, 52 elite youth players were born in the first three months of the year, with just 4 players born in the last three.</p>

<p>What might account for this anomaly? Here are a few guesses: a) certain astrological signs confer superior soccer skills; b) winter-born babies tend to have higher oxygen capacity, which increases soccer stamina; c) soccer-mad parents are more likely to conceive children in springtime, at the annual peak of soccer mania; d) none of the above.</p>

<p>Anders Ericsson, a 58-year-old psychology professor at Florida State University, says he believes strongly in “none of the above.” He is the ringleader of what might be called the Expert Performance Movement, a loose coalition of scholars trying to answer an important and seemingly primordial question: When someone is very good at a given thing, what is it that actually makes him good?</p>

<p>Ericsson, who grew up in Sweden, studied nuclear engineering until he realized he would have more opportunity to conduct his own research if he switched to psychology. His first experiment, nearly 30 years ago, involved memory: training a person to hear and then repeat a random series of numbers. “With the first subject, after about 20 hours of training, his digit span had risen from 7 to 20,” Ericsson recalls. “He kept improving, and after about 200 hours of training he had risen to over 80 numbers.”</p>

<p>This success, coupled with later research showing that memory itself is not genetically determined, led Ericsson to conclude that the act of memorizing is more of a cognitive exercise than an intuitive one. In other words, whatever innate differences two people may exhibit in their abilities to memorize, those differences are swamped by how well each person “encodes” the information. And the best way to learn how to encode information meaningfully, Ericsson determined, was a process known as deliberate practice.</p>

<p>Deliberate practice entails more than simply repeating a task — playing a C-minor scale 100 times, for instance, or hitting tennis serves until your shoulder pops out of its socket. Rather, it involves setting specific goals, obtaining immediate feedback and concentrating as much on technique as on outcome.</p>

<p>Ericsson and his colleagues have thus taken to studying expert performers in a wide range of pursuits, including soccer, golf, surgery, piano playing, Scrabble, writing, chess, software design, stock picking and darts. They gather all the data they can, not just performance statistics and biographical details but also the results of their own laboratory experiments with high achievers.</p>

<p>Their work, compiled in the “Cambridge Handbook of Expertise and Expert Performance,” a 900-page academic book that will be published next month, makes a rather startling assertion: the trait we commonly call talent is highly overrated. Or, put another way, expert performers — whether in memory or surgery, ballet or computer programming — are nearly always made, not born. And yes, practice does make perfect. These may be the sort of clichés that parents are fond of whispering to their children. But these particular clichés just happen to be true.</p>

<p>Ericsson’s research suggests a third cliché as well: when it comes to choosing a life path, you should do what you love — because if you don’t love it, you are unlikely to work hard enough to get very good. Most people naturally don’t like to do things they aren’t “good” at. So they often give up, telling themselves they simply don’t possess the talent for math or skiing or the violin. But what they really lack is the desire to be good and to undertake the deliberate practice that would make them better.</p>

<p>“I think the most general claim here,” Ericsson says of his work, “is that a lot of people believe there are some inherent limits they were born with. But there is surprisingly little hard evidence that anyone could attain any kind of exceptional performance without spending a lot of time perfecting it.” This is not to say that all people have equal potential. Michael Jordan, even if he hadn’t spent countless hours in the gym, would still have been a better basketball player than most of us. But without those hours in the gym, he would never have become the player he was.</p>

<p>Ericsson’s conclusions, if accurate, would seem to have broad applications. Students should be taught to follow their interests earlier in their schooling, the better to build up their skills and acquire meaningful feedback. Senior citizens should be encouraged to acquire new skills, especially those thought to require “talents” they previously believed they didn’t possess.</p>

<p>And it would probably pay to rethink a great deal of medical training. Ericsson has noted that most doctors actually perform worse the longer they are out of medical school. Surgeons, however, are an exception. That’s because they are constantly exposed to two key elements of deliberate practice: immediate feedback and specific goal-setting.</p>

<p>The same is not true for, say, a mammographer. When a doctor reads a mammogram, she doesn’t know for certain if there is breast cancer or not. She will be able to know only weeks later, from a biopsy, or years later, when no cancer develops. Without meaningful feedback, a doctor’s ability actually deteriorates over time. Ericsson suggests a new mode of training. “Imagine a situation where a doctor could diagnose mammograms from old cases and immediately get feedback of the correct diagnosis for each case,” he says. “Working in such a learning environment, a doctor might see more different cancers in one day than in a couple of years of normal practice.”</p>

<p>If nothing else, the insights of Ericsson and his Expert Performance compatriots can explain the riddle of why so many elite soccer players are born early in the year.</p>

<p>Since youth sports are organized by age bracket, teams inevitably have a cutoff birth date. In the European youth soccer leagues, the cutoff date is Dec. 31. So when a coach is assessing two players in the same age bracket, one who happened to have been born in January and the other in December, the player born in January is likely to be bigger, stronger, more mature. Guess which player the coach is more likely to pick? He may be mistaking maturity for ability, but he is making his selection nonetheless. And once chosen, those January-born players are the ones who, year after year, receive the training, the deliberate practice and the feedback — to say nothing of the accompanying self-esteem — that will turn them into elites.</p>

<p>This may be bad news if you are a rabid soccer mom or dad whose child was born in the wrong month. But keep practicing: a child conceived on this Sunday in early May would probably be born by next February, giving you a considerably better chance of watching the 2030 World Cup from the family section.</p>

<p>Stephen J. Dubner and Steven D. Levitt are the authors of “Freakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything.” More information on the research behind this column is at <a href=“http://www.freakonomics.com%5B/url%5D”>www.freakonomics.com</a>.</p>

<p>Amen, Carolyn, amen. Exactly what I said in the other thread about whether or not an 8th grader needs a sport to get into an Ivy. Good Grief!</p>

<p>As we can see from the article, when parents try to push kids into ecs that don’t really interest the kids, then the kids will not achieve as much as they could if they really loved the ec they were doing. Practice makes perfect, as the trite and hackneyed saying goes, and kids will only practice stuff that they truly love. While the drive to success (or ‘love’ of success) can sometimes override the lack of interest, ‘passion’ is highly conducive to success, great ec results, and a nice ride into the top colleges.</p>

<p>Ah-men carolyn.</p>

<p>Something is askew with our generation.</p>

<p>The student is not to be tailored for the school. The child must not be programmed to attend what others perceive to be elite schools.</p>

<p>EC’s occur - or should occur – by default. My son, who tried every sport with a ball, hated them all and is now involved with BSA and nonathletic events which I never knew about. Good for him. And, the college he will attend will probably incorporate similar concepts. Ultmately, he will choose a school to match his personality, not the opposite.</p>

<p>The beginning of this thread mentioned to mold the EC’s where the student was most interested. That is absolutely correct. But, the EC must be molded – not pushed. If pushed, the interest may wane and the result could be a young man or woman without much interest in anything.</p>

<p>Lastly, I have seen children with great (stupendous may be a better adjective) EC’s, grades, SAT scores and more. They apply eagerly to the elite schools and I must shrug as I watch their self esteem deflate because they are given a limited choice of lesser known (dare I say “safety”) schools. Perfect numbers, I have learned, do not guarantee anything in admissions.</p>

<p>So ask yourself, after guiding your child through the process of EC’s etc. to the edenesque elite school’s application, are you willing to accept rejection from those overly sought schools (especially, after years of effort and sacrifice)? If you cannot accept it, maybe your energies would be much better spent on other activities – e.g. letting your child choose or elect his/her EC (even if that means Saturday mornings in front of the tv and evenings playing war games on the computer – with a wide grin on their face).</p>

<p>I don’t think your major argument (the potential unfortunate consequence of rejection) is a big deal. Most really prepared students will not be na</p>

<p>Nice post carolyn :slight_smile: i’ll follow that. i’m still a sophmore ^^</p>

<p>The USA academic first team provides an example of the type of ECs that impress top colleges. (Overwhelming majority of the 20 students also are going to Ivies, particularly Harvard, and with the exception of a student who chose Ouachita Baptist College, the others are going to highly competive places like Michigan, Northwestern and Cal Tech.</p>

<p>The article also backs up suggestions on this thread that students doing outstanding ECs are doing them on their own initiative.</p>

<p>"First Team members share vision and initiative backed by the willingness to put in the hard work needed to make things happen. </p>

<p>But many say their accomplishments are less the fruits of grand ambitions than the products of a curious mind. A number of them consider themselves passionate learners. </p>

<p>“If I excel, I think it’s because I’m essentially interested in everything. I’ve never found a subject that’s not interesting to me,” says Daniel Litt of Pepper Pike, Ohio.</p>

<p>President of Orange High’s Mock Trial team, co-president of the Science Olympiad team and an officer of the debate team and Model United Nations club, Daniel proved the Chan-Robbins-Yuen Theorem, a theorem in combinatorics, described as the mathematics of counting. Daniel read four math textbooks cover to cover trying to solve it. </p>

<p>Although he reached a point where he was working 20-hour days on the problem, Daniel thinks one key to his success was, paradoxically, not caring too much about being successful. “You have to do something because you’re interested in it and not because you have a vested interest in the result. You have to be willing not to do well,” he says." <a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-05-17-hs-team_x.htm[/url]”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-05-17-hs-team_x.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Here’s detailed info about some other winners
"Stephanie Brinton, 17, East High, Salt Lake City
College: Harvard
GPA: 4.0…</p>

<p>Accomplishments: Los Angeles Liszt International Piano Competition winner who has performed on the Young Concert Artists’ Series in Italy, she created Musical Portraits of Famous Composers, a 50-minute program she presents to elementary schools; varsity basketball captain also lettered in cross country and track; took 10-day service trip to Ecuador to help build a school; National Honor Society chapter president; Key Club treasurer; Girls State; Utah’s Junior Miss…</p>

<p>"Sarah Rapoport, 17, Horace Mann School, Riverdale, N.Y.
College: Brown</p>

<p>GPA: 4.0…</p>

<p>Accomplishments: Her research on embryonic symmetry-breaking mechanisms showing how the body learns left from right won the American Academy of Neurology’s Neuroscience Creativity Prize and was named Intel Science Talent Search finalist; adapted four prize-winning National History Day essays, including a national first prize essay, into a book, History’s Real-Life Cinderellas: Four Remarkable Stories of Women Who Changed the World, sold at the Museum of the City of New York; invented an anti-forging signature verification pen; captain, varsity fencing team; band co-president and first chair oboist; science club president; Knowledge Master team captain; started school club to provide volunteers to local hospital."
<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-05-17-hs-allstars-first-team_x.htm[/url]”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-05-17-hs-allstars-first-team_x.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>A link to the winners was posted on another thread on this forum and I commented there, but will say here…
First, I am in awe of the incredible talents and accomplishments of the students who were selected. They definitely stand out as extraordinary young people. Bravo to them! </p>

<p>My own kids are not in the same stratosphere but there is one thing I noticed…almost every kid on that list who won, is accomplished in more than one area of interest. In the almost four years I have been on CC and knowledgeable about college admissions, the 'trend" has been that so called elite colleges were looking for students with one, or at most two single areas of passion, as opposed to several areas. The trend seemed to be in that direction as opposed to what used to be in “vogue”, which was to be well rounded. I happen to have kids where one fits one singular area of passion (with related areas thrown in) and the other fits the well rounded profile. When the well rounded one applied to selective colleges, I didn’t care if well rounded was supposedly not “in” with respect to college admissions because that is who she is and I would not change a thing about her. She even wrote one of her app essays on this trait about being well rounded with part of her in athletics, part in performing arts, part as a math/science person, and part as a creative thinker. </p>

<p>Now, I am noticing that several of the winners in that article also were well rounded. Look at Sarah…sports, band, Intel science, history winner, published book, and so on, with depth of involvement and achievements in each endeavor. And she is just one of several like that amongst the winners. Ironically, she is heading to Brown where my well rounded kid goes. </p>

<p>So, while the one singular passion thing still is an attractive profile for admissions, I still think those who excel at and are interested in several areas, can not only still be admitted but be recognized as outstanding. Doing more than one thing is OK (if not just dabbling). I have met several candidates as an alum interviewer who also are heavily engaged in several areas and excel at them and I always marvel and am impressed by that type. It may go against the grain from all I read about “one singular sensation” but it obviously is still an attractive profile as observed by these winners, most of whom are heading to highly selective colleges. </p>

<p>I’m not saying to be who you aren’t (don’t all run out and be well rounded now) but if who you are IS well rounded, it’s OK! It seems to be even more than OK, even if all the current literature says that well rounded is not the “in” thing for elite admissions any longer.</p>

<p>Susan, I think my D’s experience echoes what you posted. Well-roundedness may not be the in fashion but it appears that it still has it’s fans among the admissions reps.</p>

<p>These kids are obviously motivated, bright, engaged and probably mostly reasonably affluent. What is really striking, to me at least, is that USA Today has so focused it’s notion of outstanding in affiliation with apparently profound achievement in math and science in the HS age group. </p>

<p>If the Ivies claim they could fill their classes several times over with qualified applicants, how many times over do you think USA today could fill their list with comparable kids? How many of these kids are there graduating from US high schools every year?</p>

<p>Lets take the kids at the ‘next tier down’- the more ‘typical’ kid who is very bright and capable and only has 24 hours in every day. Are they better trying to do less and less of more and more- or more and more of less and less? </p>

<p>Some of the kids I know who were the most ‘well rounded’ in HS dropped nearly everything in college, many of the kids I know who were profoundly passionate about one thing (or a few things directly related to that one thing) have stuck with it. Hmmm. </p>

<p>My son is attending an Ivy, just finished his 1st year, and is shocked that roughly 1/3 kids he knows seriously underacheived academically this year. In some cases it is because of the demands of the curriculum, in others it is due to clear burn out. A few are taking a year off to regroup energy and thoughts both. How long do you think a person can sustain 18 hour days and truly stay healthy, in all the ways that means.</p>