@cameo43
Wow, I think this is the strongest argument for prenups that I have ever read.
My wife and I were both poor when we got married and without any real debt, but this is something I will keep in mind now for my son when the time comes.
Prenups would bind the parties who sign them but should not affect folks who never signed them.
When in doubt, a “religious or secular celebration” of vows but NOT a legal marriage might be the most prudent course. Of course when people are in love and death is looming, folks aren’t necessarily thinking about debts and other harsh realities.
I sincerely hope that my son will marry for love and not based on how rich or poor his spouse will be.
What I want for my son is a happy, fulfilling life with someone who is kind, loving, sensitive, intellectually curious, and emotionally insightful, and who loves my son unconditionally. Someone who will be a great lifelong partner… for richer or poorer, in sickness or in health.
It would in this case. Just the boilerplate prenup for separate finances would have been a shield against the dead husband’s creditors.
I’m not sure I believe that marrying someone with health issues means you are responsible for their debts accrued before you even met them. That sounds like urban myths.
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/am-i-responsible-to-pay-off-the-debts-of-my-deceased-spouse-en-1467/ has some information on this topic.
It probably is not a complete urban myth… creditors would try to go after anyone related to the debtor. But the new spouse of the debtor can fight back and argue that the debt was not community property because it was acquired before the marriage. For example:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/debt-marriage-owe-spouse-debts-29572.html
I agree and it seemed weird that the student loan bills were being sent to the wife… but this was in WA (community property state) so perhaps she was legally responsible for his hospital bill? In any case… his sister said afterward that She wished they’d just had a minister come and perform the ceremony without the legal paperwork. The whole thing was just very sad.
It gives me a stomachache that we even need to contemplate this question. It’s hard enough these days to meet a “soulmate,” let alone one who is perfect and debt free. My daughter’s one and only ever boyfriend is so awesome for her that I am just praying that it lasts. They have shown great potential for that so far. He has debt (federal loans only), my daughter doesn’t. So far our only recommendation has been to keep their shared expenses 50/50, and that his loans are his until they are married. But really, it’s none of our business. My husband and I are believers that there’s more to life than career and money, a healthy relationship is really special too. I’m with @TheGreyKing there.
Honestly, until our kids are serious about someone, we aren’t even told they’re seeing anyone. We trust them to make solid friendships based on common values and so far we have always really liked all their friends, romantic or otherwise.
We would have a conversation with her about what that may mean to their combined financial circumstances. The assumption here is that the relationship is serious enough that marriage may be a possibility.
We raised our daughter in an environment where everything could be discussed. So this would be no different. I see it as our responsibility to kindly and tactfully share our experience and hopefully wisdom with her.
There are a lot of potential variables. Is the boyfriend or girlfriend grounded and responsible? Are they ambitious etc.
There isn’t much that should be out of bounds if you go about it respectfully and in a loving manner.
In many societies, marriage is considered a financial merger and a way to make family stronger. In some cultures they take family’s long health history into consideration (grandparents, parents, cousins), and then education, appearance…My parents had an arranged marriage, where the matchmaker made sure their background matched (wealth, health, family, looks). They were married for 50+ years before my father passed away. I believe the reason they got along so well was because they had common background and similar core values.
Nowadays we believe love will conquer it all, which may also mean when the love dies (or lukewarm) and another love comes around then it is ground to move on.
Almost every CC parent is debt adversed, but do not have an opinion whether their kid should inherit someone else’s debt (or their spending habit) because love should come first. I am one of those CC’er who doesn’t always advise students from not taking out student loans, but there needs to be a way of paying it back. On the other hand, it is questionable when someone has an art/music degree with 100+k loans(or even 50k+) because it doesn’t show good judgement. It is also a huge red flag if someone has bad credit scores.
When your kid is already in a relationship it is not the time to talk about their SO’s debt, spending habit, health issue, etc. I tried to talk to my kids about a lot of those issues when they were much younger - keep your eyes wide open before you commit because it is a life time commitment.
Well…one of my kids has no debt…none. We would love to see him find a SO. Maybe his lack of debt will help. He should that on his online profile maybe. He manages money very well.
@privatebanker. Hilarious! I had to read it twice but very funny.
Again I am amazed by the difference of opinion on CC. I married someone that I dated for 8 years. Both going into medicine back in the day. I had $150,000 loans and she had $200,000. Yep, $350,000. I shiver now just thinking about it. We both didn’t come from money and this was our way out.
Long story short, I actually studied no money down deals for housing as a hobby. Yep, bought a medical practice then 2 years later a house… No money down deals both of them. The house was in an extremely appreciating area and eventually paid off all the loans with the appreciation. The house value went up like 4 times in a very short period of time.
So sometimes with some planning you get lucky.
We have taught our kids financial steps. They know our history. They have various accounts so they can contribute as they are in college and learn the financial ropes. Both have sat down with our banker to learn how to build credit and both have sat down with our broker just to learn what that is all about. They have their own accounts that we are signed on to.
So first off I want my kids to be happy and have a healthy relationship.
Would I question their future financial plans if it gets serious? Of course I would! I have good relations with my children. It wouldn’t be drilling them. But asking how they are going to manage financially for the future just is not a big deal. I would rather ask the question and maybe give some advice then let them go into debt and struggle.
On that note, sometimes being in debt with someone you love makes you more creative and frugal going forward. Sometimes struggling together can actuality strengthen your relationship. Many of my “rich” friends had to struggle to get there. Once loans etc are paid off, trust me, you never want to go back there.
Debts (and assets) acquired before marriage would not usually be considered community property. I think one has to be careful about co-mingling assets if the person wants to make sure that the assets remain separate property.
It wouldn’t surprise me that a creditor would try to convince a surviving spouse that he is responsible for a late wife’s debt, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the widower actually IS responsible.
I also think there is nothing wrong with struggling together. Hubby and I had very little at first and started a business. We rolled coins for groceries and got very creative cooking and finding free things to do. I think it’s partly why we have such a strong relationship today.
I think it was this post that started the whole “does the surviving spouse owe the debts incurred by the deceased spouse” conversation:
I think it is extremely unlikely that the surviving spouse in that scenario would be liable for any of his student debt or medical expenses by virtue of a week long marriage.
If you want your child to break up with their SO, instead of saying so (which usually backfires, entrenching the relationship), begin socializing regularly with the SO’s parents. 
We’ve decided a long time ago to pay off any professional college loans of kids’ future spouses. If they have financial hardship or health issues, it will be a gift. Otherwise, it would still be a gift, but they won’t know this and will be expected to repay full loan amount (with interest) to themselves. The idea is to discourage any lifestyle creep/living beyond their means and to build up their savings. We’ll do the same for future home loans.
One kid’s spouse paid off college loans before the wedding. The other kid dates a medical student who will have large college debt. We’ll be over the moon if they decide to get married some day.
If the debt is just in the name of the dead person, the creditors cannot go after anyone with the same name/spouse. In community property states, there might be some joint liability but only for debts incurred after the marriage, and often only if the creditor considered the community assets/income in granting the credit. In Wisconsin, for example, the creditors have to consider the spouse’s income if YOU requests they do, but otherwise it is not community debt. The creditors will try to claim any asset that belongs to the deceased, even if the assets are co-owned by a non-borrower, such as a car or house.
My father died last year and he had a lot of unsecured debt, but none of it (except one credit card) was shared with my mother. All the creditors were very nice and if they were a debt collection organization (usually collecting the debts of a third party) they explained immediately either on the phone or in a letter that no one but the deceased/his assets were responsible for debts. Some asked for information to try to get the debt paid through insurance (the ambulance company needed some new insurance policy numbers) and honestly, everyone was very nice. I handled all the paperwork and calls, and I gave the information I could, but not a single one threatened anything or said my mother had to pay.
The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act doesn’t allow creditors to go after spouses or relatives, or to lie to them. Most of the big creditors do follow the FDCPA even if they aren’t required to.