Thank you for your kind words and suggestions.
Honestly, @ucbalumnus, I really think it depends on the kid. I’ve known “entitled” people of every walk of life, including within the same family where everybody else works their butt off and remains appreciative of everything they have.
@Midwest67, my older son attended a very exclusive high school on half-scholarship. It was hard for him to watch most of his classmates apply only to fancy privates or elite out-of-state publics and know they could go to any school they were admitted to and mom and dad would cover the bill, or alternatively watch kids on full scholarship be able to go to elite schools because they received such generous need-based aid. He was like your daughter, in that middle place where he wasn’t going to get a huge FA package, but thankfully he chose the big merit package over the schools where he would have had to take out loans.
He has no regrets and is so grateful that he’ll graduate with no debt. My only disappointment is that while he greatly values the private school education he received, he wants nothing to do with any of his old classmates. He’s written most of them off as pampered elites, which I don’t think is fair, but I guess I’ll take that over having him resentful and entitled to a better lifestyle than my husband and I can afford to give him.
As @blossom, recommends, we did ALWAYS keep him (and our younger son, who isn’t nearly as frugal) apprised of our financial situation, especially when there were major setbacks. I do think that helps, but I don’t think even that guarantees your children will accept that reality. Some people are NEVER happy with their lot in life and always see the grass as greener on the other side. I have wealthy friends like that–I have no idea where that comes from.
Your description of the “middle place” is spot on.
Hopefully, with some time and maturity, she’ll come to see the gifts right in front of her.
Thank you for your post.
Midwest and Blossom … You’re both awesome! Keep the faith
My ‘grass is always greener’ kid attended a variety of schools with kids from all economic stations. Although it was always apparent to me that we were the paupers, to my kids it became more evident when their friends were having Sweet 16 and Quinces that were filmed for MTv, birthday parties that were harbor cruises, family vacations that were African Safaris. I was dropping them off in a 10 year old Honda and their friends were arriving in Jags and BMWs. Friends had no restrictions on where they applied to college. Luckily (for me) the school they graduated from was much more middle class and most went to public colleges.
One daughter is in a wedding for one of these wealthy friends this NYE. She’s lucky that the bride (she’s friends with the groom) is not from such a wealthy family so the dress was very reasonable, but my daughter is still expected to be at the wedding for 4 days. She was asked to be in another wedding which would have cost her a lot more, but the bride realized daughter could just not afford the time away from school or the money and ‘uninvited’ her to be a bridesmaid, and there were sighs of relief all around.
3 people in the house (only child)
Married parents, both living in the house
76k income
Little to no assets (around 1k)
Received pretty much nothing (less than $100)
EFC was around 9,000.
If someone really wanted to split that into a payment each month, it would total out at $750 per month. :-S :(( :-S
Kind of ridiculous that my parents were expected to contribute 12% of their total income to my schooling per year. My parents pay out a lot per year and can’t afford to take on extra bills as it is.
Don’t get me wrong, I really think things like fee waivers for SATs and ACTs and college applications are great for lower income students; the student can’t pay for them currently and that’s completely understandable. That’s nice to have those things out there. It’s kind of disappointing that say someone will go to the same school, earn the same degree, and will be selected for the same paying job and pay a world of less student loans than I will have to, all because they have more siblings than I do?
At the end of the day, our student debt is not our parents; it’s our own.
I get their point and I’m grateful that financial aid is out there. However, it’s kind of weird that I’ll end up having to pay more in loans than the next person whose family was bigger or didn’t make as much money. I just wish it were a little more effective.
How would you fix it?
EFC is meant to be covered by prior income (college savings), current income, and, to a certain extent, future income (loans). How much saving for college has there been, both by you and by your parents? Have you had or do you plan to have a summer job, or a part time job while in high school?
“At the end of the day, our student debt is not our parents; it’s our own.”
I’m so glad to see another student taking responsibility for her education.
Jolealea - you’ll find a way to make this work. I hope you find a great fit at a school that’s meets all your needs outside of that EFC with grants and scholarships. You will be able to cover 9K with jobs and subsidized loans.
Try you’re hardest to finish up in four years and the loan debt will be manageable.
“I’m so glad to see another student taking responsibility for her education.”
As a parent, I have no issues with helping my kids pay for their education. I know they are appreciative of it as I was when my own parents ( who were each the first in their families to attend or finish college) paid for mine. As a family, we take care of and support one another. It is my way of paying forward what my own parents sacrificed for me and the emphasis and value they placed on education. Am I fortunate that I can afford to? Yes, but some of that comes from a) being provided that chance to get a good education myself and taking advantage of the opportunities it provided and b) making sacrifices along the way. My kids’ education is more important to me than a newer model car, a bigger house, and dining out a lot.
@jolealea Yep. I hear you. It sure does seem like it does not make sense sometimes. The reality is that people in the middle class will receive little or not aid at all. It is only the ones on the lower income range that qualify.
If you’re so determined that students take “responsibility” for their educations, which seems to include only attending schools they can afford on their incomes, why haven’t you set the tone by having your own kids attend a cc or commute to a local state school? You’re paying a lot for your daughter and seem to expect to pay a lot for your son as well. It doesn’t sound to me like you want the low cost option that the kids could actually afford on their own, you want the well known school for the low income rate. It doesn’t work like that.
@Jolealea, @MassDaD68, There isn’t a lot of free money out there for low income kids. All they’re guaranteed is a ~$5k Pell grant and a ~$5500 federal student loan. If they can work all summer, they can probably earn ~$3k. Please tell me where a low income kid can go away to college and cover tuition, room, board, books, health insurance, and travel expenses for less than ~$15k/year.
An instate student could do that ($15k) or come very close at some flagships - Wyoming, South Dakota, Florida (especially at the directionals). California makes it do-able for low income students to attend the CSUs and UCs. If the student can live at home, even more savings. What the low income student can’t do is make any Dream School work.
In my case, I was able to pay for some of my kids’ costs, but I think more of my help came in finding them schools that do provide a lot of aid, staying on top of their college bills and the funds they are suppose to receive (I’ve spend HOURS hunting down scholarships and grants that didn’t get applied to their bills or didn’t get applied correctly), helping them figure out the cheapest way to buy books, travel, live, eat, how to get the best deal from tuition (take more credits?), even figuring out the taxes. I wanted them to be able to go to the schools they wanted to go to, and I couldn’t just pay sticker price so we had to figure out other ways to pay for those schools.
The student upthread wasn’t talking about dream schools, she was talking about how unfair it is that “lower income” kids will be able to go away to the same college as she will for less money than her family will have to pay. In most cases, Pell eligible kids aren’t getting enough aid to be able to dorm at the schools that the students who aren’t Pell eligible are attending. Many of them never dorm at all. They attend a cc and/or commute to a local state school.
It’s unfortunate Jolealea’s parents weren’t able to save anything for her to go to college, but it’s a waste of energy to compare what aid she’ll get to what a lower income student will get. A student who gets the full Pell grant is coming from a family that earns ~$26k/year or more less than Jolealea’s family. If her family wasn’t able to save anything for college out of past income and will struggle to pay $9k/year out of the current $76k income, where does she imagine the families earning $45k or less are going to come up with the ~$12k (or more) they’ll need after the Pell grant and federal student loan are applied? Taking away their aid and only permitting them fee waivers will have zero net effect on her.
I never said I wanted a top college at a low income price. My kids will get no financial aide so that topic is purely academic for me. I want all interested kids to go to college and don’t want to see families suffer because of it.
Yes I love it when a kid takes responsibility. Having them think their parents/the World owes them a free ride is infuriating to me. I also can’t stand the idea of the colleges EXPECTING the parents to contribute a large percentage of their household budget to paying their kids education. I have nothing against a parent helping out if they are able.
Any parent who made some sacrifices so they could build up a college fund deserves respect.
My D16 IS commuting to a state school. She made that choice after we told her how much we could contribute and she saw what the out of pocket would be for several schools she applied to that sent their offers. We front loaded our assistance to her because S18 will change the family finances when he starts college.
S18 knows what we can contribute for him each year. He sees what the his top choice colleges cost. He’s working, saving and busting his butt to keep top grades. He’s studying for his SATs He knows he needs merit money. He’ll get his packages and have to make a decision for himself next year. If he opts for his top choice but has to borrow 80K to make it happen he should get no sympathy when the loans come due. (of course I’d strongly lobby against his choice)
Everyone needs to take responsibility for the choices they make.
Your son can’t borrow $80k; he can only borrow ~$5500/year or ~$27k total. Unless you cosign loans for him, he can’t get into that kind of debt.
I’ve heard very few people say their kid thinks they, or the world, “owes them a free ride” to college. Most are trying to find a college that can be paid for with a combination of merit aid, money from current earnings, savings, student work earnings, the AOTC, need based grants (if they can get them), and the federal student loan.
If parents shouldn’t have to pay for their kids to go to college, and the rest of the world (the government, college, and other taxpayers) shouldn’t have to pay, where exactly is the money for college supposed to come from? The only group left is the students. But students can’t afford to pay the $20k-$70k/year it currently costs to go to college. Changing the system so only the student’s income is considered won’t make the cost of college any cheaper. Those families who can pay for their kids will still do so. The ones who can’t will have to send their kids to cc or the local commuter college like just about everybody else.
Not expecting parents to pay won’t change things much for most students at most schools, because in most cases schools just don’t have the money to give away. The EFC is just a number with very little meaning. At best more students would qualify for a handful of federal and state grants, but then again it’s likely the qualifications for that would tighten because there is only so much money.
The only people that would benefit from making it a student only contribution (call it an “ESC”?) would be those at a meet’s full need school. But I suspect if that were the case, they wouldn’t guarantee to meet need for very long!
Jersey, you are imagining scenarios which cannot and do not exist. It’s really that simple.
Jersey- of course parents need to make sacrifices. Didn’t you cut and trim for orthodonture, because without it, your kid might have faced an adulthood of a speech impediment or dental pain? Didn’t you sacrifice so your clumsy kid could take dance lessons or gymnastics or karate or whatever so they he/she wouldn’t spend a lifetime being physically awkward? Didn’t you put home improvements on hold so that your kid with the LD’s could do an after school program with intense reading/language help?
That’s what parents do. If you are poor- you can’t, because there’s nothing to cut. If you are middle class- and you can find a way to cut- that’s what you do.
If you choose not to fund your kids education, then that’s your decision. And if your kid had a massive overbite and you chose not to do orthodonture, then that’s your decision as well. Short of a court order because you are putting your kids life at risk- nobody can force you to spend the money.
But our society isn’t predicated on a system where people need a court order to sacrifice financially to make a better life for their kids. Those who can, usually do it willingly.