What is "Privilege"?

“But what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? He was talking about his background, his life. Must one always follow talking about their life with how much harder it would have been for others? What is even the point?”

Exactly. This is like the Caitlyn Jenner discussion - she poses for VF and people whine that not every transgender person has the money and resources for surgery, designer clothing, stylists, etc. So??? What IS this new trend where you can’t ever simply talk about or live your own circumstances, but you have to acknowledge and be inclusive to everyone else’s or else everyone gets all butthurt?

Why does it matter who is privileged and who isn’t? I wouldn’t trade my life for anyone else’s, no matter how good their life seems on the outside. I can’t presume to know what someone else has been through, what they’ve struggled with, and what internal strife they’re dealing with. It’s arrogant to assume that because I’m a white male I’ve automatically had it better than someone who is black, and it’s condescending to assume that just because someone is wealthier than I am or hasn’t dealt with the problems I’ve had to deal with their life is automatically “better” than mine.

Maybe I’m privileged just because I got into a great university and my financial aid package was affordable. Maybe I’m not privileged because I’ve dealt with moderate to severe depression for almost all of my life since I can remember. I’ll never know what it’s like to feel that I’m trapped in the wrong body or that people hate me for what I am (I have experienced antisemitism, but that’s about the extent of the discrimination I’ve faced). I think it’s a pointless endeavor to compare levels of privilege. How about we all just appreciate what we do have and try to remember that there are people who are less fortunate? Does it matter how much less fortunate they are or how many people there are that are more fortunate than we are?

For me, this discussion is one I’d prefer to have with two sets of people: (1) my kids because “you got it easy kid!” and (2) the occasional entitled kids who I hire/interview who don’t know that running with the bulls isn’t something most people do, that having a father who is a federal judge here does actually mean you get interviews you wouldn’t otherwise and who think I don’t appreciate them enough.

Tempemom, you’re right - my point was more that the privilege of being a Catholic in Boston is higher than that of being a Catholic in rural Alabama, and so forth.

Do these privilege calculators also ask “when I applied for college, was I given a boost because of my ethnicity, SES, and/or parents’ educational level”? Don’t get me wrong. I have no problem with any of that, but I think it’s disingenuous to then not count that kind of thing in privilege calculators.

Being naturally intelligent is an unearned privilege - ditto for being naturally talented in art, music, etc.

I don’t disagree with the concept of privilege. I just dislike how it reduces to gender/race/SES and how it implies every rich white person must be on Easy Street with no life worries. Like I said, we all have our crosses to bear. The rich white girl you are envying might have an abusive parent and be losing the other parent to cancer or Alzheimer’s. But oh, she’s been to Europe and summer camp so she’s privileged. GMAB.

I was born into a situation of privilege and am doing everything I can to pass that down. When you can look back at your life and realize how good you have had it you have led a life of privilege.

I agree with Pizzagirl to me privilege is more than wealth it is circumstance. A wealthy person born into a home of chaos and loathing really is not a person of privilege. A poor person born into a home of love and support is privileged.

I came out +18 on the questions in post #10 and +19 on the questions in post #24. Some different questions, very similar results. I think that’s a fair characterization, though I certainly know people who came from backgrounds I would consider more privileged than my own.

There’s some imprecision in many of the questions and they probably underemphasize some important things, especially going to a stable, supportive, and nurturing family environment, and parental expectations that both encourage achievement and help define achievable goals and a realistic pathway to achieve them. But I don’t see why some posters here are so determined to nitpick particular questions. As other have said, this isn’t a scientific survey, it’s a parlor game, and if you take the questions as a whole, I think they do tell you something, but certainly not everything, about privilege.

If I were nitpicking, the one question I’d nitpick is the one about having a job in HS and college. I always had a job in HS and college, not out of dire necessity but because it allowed me to help pay for my education, which is something I was capable of doing and wanted to do, and because both my parents and I always believed in the value of work not just for monetary reward but because it’s character-building and “teaches you the value of a dollar,” as my Dad used to say. I was grateful for those jobs, and I think in some ways they gave me leg up later in life. And we’ve encouraged our kids also to work in HS and college for similar reasons–not as a matter of economic necessity (though their contribution certainly helps), but because we wanted them to have some financial stake in their own education, because their contribution of their earnings makes them that much more appreciative of the value of the much larger financial contribution we make and the privilege it embodies, and because it teaches them character, responsibility, discipline, good work habits, and on and on. Some of the young adults who have the hardest time successfully transitioning from college to the work force are those who have never worked a day in their lives up until that point, because they didn’t need to and no one encouraged them to do so. They may be “privileged” in a SES sense, but sometimes that kind of privilege can amount to shooting yourself in the foot.

I had something happen over the weekend that demonstrated privilege. We were at home (suburban upper middle class neighborhood, predominantly white, some East and South Asian). A young black man came to the door soliciting something. I stepped outside (as I would have for any solicitor) and asked him what he was asking for, as he was rambling a bit. He was well dressed, and appeared to be talking about some kind of job training program he was participating in, but I couldn’t figure out “the ask”. Meanwhile, a police car starts driving up and down my street, pulls into my driveway and 2 officers get out to talk with this man. It looked like they were trying to ascertain what he was doing there and whether he was soliciting without a permit. Whatever the interaction, it appeared cordial, they were all laughing at one point. We (meaning my family) immediately figured that someone called the police because they saw a black man going door to door - even though he was well dressed, clearly not threatening. We all felt horrible and my kids accurately noted that no one would have called the cops if they (white) had gone door to door. It was very sobering and we were all saddened by it.

So I am not immune to or denying the privilege that my white son wouldn’t be assumed to be up to no good. But the reductionist nature of these questions bothers me. The fact that I might get a few catcalls at a construction site or my religious holidays aren’t national ones - well, that completely pales in the face of what this kid (assuming he was a good kid) has to deal with. That’s 10 steps back versus oh-boo-hoo -I-have-to-take-Yom-Kippur as a personal day.

I think anyone who ends up getting a full ride to college needs to rethink their status of privilege. Despite their start in life, in the end they may find themselves at an economic advantage over students who have parents with high incomes who won’t pay for college, but were willing to co-sign lots of loans.

The problem is that that survey was writren for college students to answer, not middle-aged adults.

Oh, that’s so sad, pizza girl. :frowning:

Sometimes I’ve had awkward interactions with people of other races and I’d feel bad because I don’t want them thinking I was being racist or anything.

I think anyone who gets s full ride should be pretty darn thankful for the privileged wealthy folks who donate millions to college so that scholarships can be funded.

It’s interesting to see the things people dwell on.

Yeah, I’m getting close to a full, need-based ride at my college so I’m pretty grateful for that. Personally, I plan on doing the same once I become wealthy to pass the privilege on and, hopefully, the person who is the beneficiary then participates in the cycle.

My perspective is a bit unique in that my family is a “blended family”. I have two step-children from my h’s first marriage who are white, and two children who are the products of H and me, bi-racial. They are all great kids, though the first two are, on average, 8 yrs older than the younger two. My step kids lived with their mom and step-father (who is white), and their half sibling on their mom’s side in another state, so we didn’t get to see them on a day to day basis. The economics of both our families, though, are pretty much on par.

What amazes me is how much the two boys are alike, even though physically, they look very different. It’s uncanny, really; their dorky, geeky interests, their face-palm sense of humor, their love for the exact same sci-if and dystopia novels and Settlers of Catan board game, their vocabulary and syntax, posture and hand gestures. It all makes you understand just how powerful a role genetics can play in shaping personality. Stepson and our D also seemingly developed an obsession with all things Starwars and Comic-Con cos play completely independently of each other, (which is interesting because they certainly weren’t influenced in that regard by either set of parents). D and her big brother (stepson) each have a love of European symphonic metal, and each also has the geek gene in common. Step-D is temperamentally and behaviorally a lot like her mom and mom’s family, but all the kids get along extremely well.

I’d say their privilege indexes are pretty close, but there’s a fairly significant difference in the way the two boys (truthfully, they’re both grown men now, with S being almost 25, and stepson being almost 36) can move through the world. Despite the fact that they are uncannily, almost scarily alike, stepson has never experienced being stopped and questioned by police for walking through his own neighborhood, or pat-down searched for weapons while being accused of having committed crimes in a nearby parking garage. They were both good kids, both having been Boy Scouts (though only S stuck with it long enough to obtain Eagle), and both are upstanding citizens today, good natured and affable, willing to help anyone at the drop of a hat. But only S has been repeatedly given to understand that his good citizen card is treated as perpetually provisional. In this regard, my stepson is very much privileged in comparison to his brother. I can’t paint a happy face on that, or make light of it. =((

I agree with you, poets heart, fwiw and I’m sorry it is the way it is.

PH - another incident that stood with me this - 2 white female coworkers, mothers of teenage boys. One married to another white man/white kid; the other married to a black man/biracial kid who looks fully black, does not “present” as biracial physically.

Woman A was recounting a story of her son and his high school class playing some kind of gotcha game, where they hid behind bushes, “accosted” other kids (maybe with water guns?), the whole school was in on it, it was a fun tradition yada yada. Woman B quietly said she could never let her son engage in any such game - she couldn’t take the chance that the cops would be called if her son were hiding in bushes and accosting other people. She didn’t explicitly say why but we all knew what she meant - and she was absolutely right. It really causes the rest of us to stop and think. Including the first woman.

See, these kinds of stories drive home privilege to me far, far more than the kinds of questions we’ve been discussing and far, far more than the " you’re white so everything is handed to you" mindset (not saying that you yourself espouse that as I know you don’t).

“I can’t think of one aspect of privilege my male twin son has over his sister. Can you?”

It strikes me that my son has several metaphorical steps backward compared to his twin sister (or me).

  • he has to pretend to care at least moderately about sports and sports team performance and be able to participate in a conversation about them - whereas no such expectations exist for my d or for me. I'm totally ignorant about pro sports players and I suffer no stigma for it.
  • he's expected to (at least initially) pay for dates. He does so cheerily w his girlfriend but it is also a truth that it impacts his budget disproportionately compared to his sister (and he makes less to begin with as he is in a less well paying field)

I don’t think privilege is always link to sex like being male. My brother, the one that is very close to me, didnt have many advantage over being male while he was growing up. My father didn’t show preference for my brother over me, even though he loved my brother dearly. Not even in engineering either. I have been in engineering for almost 35 years. Very rarely people think I’m stupid. Because I’ve always expressed my opinions, whether they like my opinions or not. My brother is less aggressive. But I’m glad I grew up with lots of brothers, somehow I’m always comfortable in the company of men then female. I only have one sister, that might explains why.

“He was talking about his background, his life. Must one always follow talking about their life with how much harder it would have been for others? What is even the point?”

To quote Pizzagirl (though I suspect she was using it in another context), “it is about the smarminess”. Mitt Romney was talking about how he struggled, how he understood the struggles of ordinary americans or those struggling to make it, and used the example of the basement apartment and so forth as an example of how he could empathize. He is making it seem like his struggles starting out were the same thing as a poor family or a working class family trying to make it…and it is like comparing apples and oranges. Like i said, Romney didn’t have to worry about if his business failed that he and his wife would be homeless or have no medical care, he didn’t have to worry about it because he came from a well off family that would make sure he never knew real want, the person from a modest background is working often without a net. I don’t doubt that Mitt Romney is a bright guy, I think his success in the end was his, and while politically he and I won’t see eye to eye and I am not a big fan of Bain Capital, I also respect the fact he built that. What I don’t respect is him recanting a story like that, with the implication that his struggles were the same as those who are really struggling, or that his success was just as hard as it is for someone who is truly struggling. His infamous “47% speech” was a rap at people who ‘don’t pay taxes’, which is about a group of people who don 't make a lot and is de facto accusing those people of living off everyone else (even more ironic when Romney’s net tax rate was less than most people in the middle class, I think he was paying around 11% of income on taxes).

Paul Ryan is an even more egregious example, when he cited working at a McDonald’s as a teenager as proof that working in a ‘dead end job isn’t’, it was smarmy, it was obnoxious, and it was directly aimed at the people who work in such places, often because it is all they can get, and saying “well, I started there, and look where it ended”. He was born with a platinum spoon in his mouth, had the best of everything, and he dares to claim that working at a McDonald’s makes him qualified to judge those struggling?

The point isn’t that Romney once struggled, the point is that they are successful, the point simply is when you recognize the gifts you have been given, as I was, you also need to have empathy for those who didn’t , when you understand not everyone has the things that were given you, you try and find ways to help others.

I’ll give you an idea. Years ago I read a study about gifted kids, something talked about on here and other education sites a lot. The study profiled gifted kids from blue collar families versus white collar kids. One of the things they found out (and I can attest to this personally) is that the big differences was the white collar families recognized their kids gifts, and actively pursued trying to find things for them, whereas with the blue collar kids the parents attitude was if the kid was really bright, the ‘school would do something about it’, and it created a huge disparity in outcomes for the kids (and one of the things that was interesting was it wasn’t economic level, the white collar and blue collar family incomes were often relatively similar). I do advocacy work for gifted kids in the schools, advocate for gifted programs that target kids and actively recruit them, especially in working class areas, because I realized that to give those kids a shot, you have to kind of make the effort to recruit them.

I think with privilege, a parody I read of the old “Horatio Alger” stories that people somehow still take as gospel, comes to mind. “Dick was a plucky sort of kid, and he figured out there was money to be made in matches. He bought some matchbooks for a penny a piece, and sold them for a nickel. With the money he made, he bought more matchbooks for a penny, sold them for a nickel, and with that money he could buy even more, since the matchbooks in volume were half a cent…and soon he was doing well…then his grandfather died and he inherited a mansion and a yacht and lived happily ever after”.

I didn’t grow up wealthy, my dad was an engineer, my mom was a brilliant woman who in many ways never found herself, we didn’t have much in the way of luxuries, we never as a family went on vacation, had new cars, etc…but I also had a lot of gifts I was given, I wasn’t born to a racial group many look at and say “welfare recipient”, I grew up in an area where there were safe places to play, I went to schools that may not have done as much as they could for me, but I didn’t have to worry about getting mugged or stabbed or shot, my parents because they were educated could help guide me…my wife was an immigrant, she grew up in a fouled up family, lived in really bad areas where she had to be in fear of her life (to this day, even though we live in a place where the only intruders are the mutant squirrels that must have gotten zapped by the pharmaceutical companies just up the road, she doesn’t feel safe unless the doors are fully locked, and will shake if she finds out the garage door got left open at night), she grew up being something of an outsider, so I also am gifted with knowing that I had it good, that while I have worked hard for everything I achieved I also was in a place where I could achieve, but I also see from my wife’s example that some people are born in muck and mire that is not so easy to achieve out of. When you understand privilege, when you understand how having a leg up works, then you can also see what not having that privilege means, and find ways to help people achieve even though they don’t have that , that’s all. Privilege doesn’t negate success, having privilege doesn’t make a person the perpetrator and those without it victims (though there are people who believe that on the granola headed left), one of the reasons Bill Gates funds education the way he does is he realizes how much he was gifted with, having a dad who was a successful executive, going to a private school that gave him access to computers at a time few had it, having a dad who encouraged him to go for his dreams, and he wants to return it. Andrew Carnegie in some ways was an SOB, but he also understood some of the things he was given over the years, and tried to give back in ways to help others. As opposed to a Paul Ryan who reads Ayn Rand and says “yup, I am one of the great elite that produced things solely through the sweat on my brow, and everyone else is garbage”, it is the latter who need to wake up and realize they didn’t do it alone.

Bill Gates is privilege, Paul Ryan isn’t. Sorry to disagree with you.