<p>I have read a lot of references to grade grubbers. If you have two students with straight A’s, what makes one a grade grubber and the other one simply a very good student?</p>
<p>What makes a person a grade grubber?</p>
<p>A grade grubber most likely tries to gain points back by looking over his paper and then arguing with the teacher as to why he/she should get points back. He/she can be unwilling to settle with the good grade they already have, even if they are proven wrong…
this is what i have seen at my school anyway…</p>
<p>Usually someone who is “purely” a “grade grubber” is not going to have straight As…That attitude has to be accompanied by some hard work and/or natural intelligence to have such good outcomes.</p>
<p>But hardworking and/or smart students can have grade-grubbing attributes…ALL students are motivated by As, no question. It makes everyone feel smart and accomplished to receive a lot of As, and good grades have tangible benefits (good college, good job, etc.). But some are motivated by As to a greater degree than others, to where they might 1. lie about being sick when they’ve forgotten to do some small assignment so that they can get the points for it or otherwise lie to receive extra days/grading leniency 2. argue to the death with the teach or prof about every point missing 3. cheat or “unfairly collaborate” on hw, tests, etc. Essentially, I see someone as a grade grubber when they compromise morals for good grades, either by blatantly lying or cheating, or by being a dick about it (arguing grades they clearly deserve, etc.).</p>
<p>A grade grubber takes easier courses (still weighted) so that he/she has a higher GPA.</p>
<p>A grade grubber worries about what others got on their assignments.</p>
<p>This one’s easy: </p>
<p>A grade grubber will argue that they are an A+ student</p>
<p>A top student will ask what they can do to improve their work to become an A+ student, and then do it.</p>
<p>A grade grubber will bend over backward to do whatever is needed to get an A – because the student wants an A, not because the student has any interest in the material. Once the A is assured, the grade grubber is no longer involved with the material.</p>
<p>The grade grubber will ask for extra credit, etc. in order to raise their grade or will argue with a teacher to try to get an A. The “A” is the prize for the student, not the learning itself.</p>
<p>The grade grubber will choose the easiest teacher who teaches a subject even if the class is a joke and the teacher is a fool. The top student will choose the teacher who teaches the subject best – even if that teacher is the most difficult in the department.</p>
<p>The grade grubber will choose classes based on how the classes will affect their gpa. The top student will choose classes based on what the student will learn and what the student is interested in .</p>
<p>What is foremost in the grade grubber’s mind is, “Will that be on the test? Will that help me get an A?” What is formost on the top student’s mind is an interest in learning for the sake of learning.</p>
<p>Top students certainly do care about grades, and will attempt to get top grades, but not at the expense of learning the subject. Grade grubbers care about grades, not the subject.</p>
<p>Students can’t be divided into “love of learning scholars” and “cold heartless A machines”.</p>
<p>Almost EVERYONE is a combination of both…</p>
<p>For instance, I like to pick the most interesting professors. Why? 1. I’ll learn more 2. Class will be more entertaining so I’ll actually go, do the work, and get better grades</p>
<p>So, what am I? Grade grubber or not? </p>
<p>Also, I like to avoid professors who are known to be inconsistent or impossible graders. </p>
<ol>
<li>It’s hard to figure out what your strengths/weaknesses are if the grading is inconsistent or doesn’t match up to your ability 2. You can’t get an A </li>
</ol>
<p>So again, what am I? </p>
<p>But I NEVER beg for points, lie about being sick, or argue to the death about grades I know I deserve…</p>
<p>So I think it is more the actions that separate kids…</p>
<p>Everyone is going to like to learn some things, not like to learn other things, be motivated by different things at different times. The question is, will you compromise your morals for something?</p>
<p>What Northstarmom said. Or in aphoristic form: Top students get A’s because they are dedicated to their studies. Grade grubbers are dedicated to their studies because that’s how you get A’s.</p>
<p>I think it’s more complicated than that. Some people are, by nature, highly competitive. As a result, they tend to think of all their activities as competitions, including grades in school. Somebody like this may care a lot about grades, but also care about being the best in terms of learning the material. Indeed, somebody like this may not be satisified with the easy A, but wants to get the highest A in the toughest class. People like this can be annoying, but I don’t know if they’re grade grubbers exactly.</p>
<p>Other people (like my son, at least at one phase of his development), think that the best possible grade to get is an 89.5, which is the lowest possible grade that translates to an A at his high school. These folks might actually reduce their focus, if they are pretty sure that their final A won’t be threatened. Is this “grade grubbing?” Sort of.</p>
<p>Nightchef, well put!</p>
<p>nightchef’s aphorism is spot-on.</p>
<p>As for people being highly competitive, well, that still makes them grade-grubbers. And when they get a job, they’ll be salary-grubbers and promotion-grubbers. They’ll think it’s important to defeat their spouses in tennis and have newer cars than their neighbors. As stated above: annoying. And making life worse for the rest of us, in my opinion.*</p>
<p>I remember our class valedictorian crying because she got a B on a test. Not for the term, just on one test! I delighted in her misery and hoped it would happen again and again, and that I could watch. Alas, I never got the pleasure.</p>
<p>* There’s no one in Costa Rica like that.</p>
<p>Everyone has such simplistic views of the world…</p>
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<p>Though I have to say I LOL’d pretty hard at delighting in the valedictorian crying over a B. Even though I don’t necessarily agree with the sentiment :P</p>
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Yes, it gave me a chuckle too. I don’t necessarily approve of the sentiment, but neither am I going to deny ever feeling it.</p>
<p>I do think Hunt’s distinction, though subtle, is useful. There’s a difference between being hyper-competitive about everything–substance and symbol alike–and being hyper-focused on the symbol so that the substance becomes strictly a means to that end. The two are often found together, but not always.</p>
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<p>Nah, that’s neither. That’s called “optimal allocation of resources” when you have other things that you care about more than school. Especially if you have parents that will get on you for an A-.</p>
<p>One thing I liked about sending my kids to top private schools (pre-college) was that a lot of the grade-grubbing stuff got taken off the table. There were no class rankings, and almost no one got all As. There was no weighting of AP classes, and there was not an emphasis on “how many APs can you take”. The occasional B was NOT going to keep you out of a top college. Even though the courses were rigorous, I felt there was more of a focus on learning and being willing to stretch instead of sweating it out just to keep up a high GPA.</p>
<p>One of the best parts of my daughter’s Brown experience was the encouragement to take classes for S/NC (satisfactory/no credit). Most of her friends did. No pre-grad school grade-grubbing! She made sure that she took one each semester, choosing areas of interest outside her concentration. I sometimes wish that her high school had been so forward-thinking.</p>
<p>The grade grubbers were the ones who complained (loudly) all of the time about how hard they studied. They also made sure that everyone knew how good their class rank was.</p>
<p>The top students were the ones who studied but didn’t talk about it. They kept quiet during the class rank discussion.</p>
<p>Culture at schools is very different. I have an undergrad degree from one major midwestern University, and an MBA from one in another midwestern state university. At one school, it was common (and accepted) to go see your professor if you felt you may not have gotten all the points you deserved on an assignment. Or even if you felt an exam question was incorrect/unfair (eg, once a prof gave a multiple choice question that did not have the right answer per research from another prof from the same university, I just happened to be taking the other guy’s class on the topic the same semester). Sometimes you got some points, sometimes not. The professors did not seem to object if your question was respectful and you were raising a reasonable point.</p>
<p>When I went to the second university, NO ONE ever did this. Professors looked startled if you asked. I can also say that the quality of class discussion was lousy at the second university (and it is a lower ranked school as well); not sure if this is related, except maybe reflecting more apathy in general about their classes at the second school.</p>
<p>I think it is “grade grubbing” when a student takes something that is clearly wrong/poor quality and tries to get a better grade, or when a student takes lots of assignments to the prof to request an upgrade. But if you have a legitimate academic point to make, imho there is nothing wrong with this practice. I learned some things from these discussions, and sometimes my profs learned something!</p>
<p>Our “model” grade grubber cheats on tests, was caught, denies it, goes on random websites trying to see where her teachers get their test questions from (we’re IB, so most of our teachers get it from old IB exams), whines for grades, and denies that she wants the higher grades. </p>
<p>It was satisfying to see my friend get the top student award, not her for the first time in her high school life.</p>
<p>I have had two grade grubbing students over the years. One of them did exactly the amount of work required to get the A- she wanted (the school district rounded grades on the transcript, so the colleges saw that as an A). Exactly. As in once she asked me for an extra point on a test “because I need to keep the 89.6 average.”</p>
<p>The other student sent her MOTHER to ask me–two years after she’d gotten a B in my course–if the grade could be changed “because that’s the only B she’s ever gotten.”</p>