<p>My sister-in-law was telling me about a conversation that took place at her house last night among a group of high school boys (one of them being her son). Apparently these boys expressed a preference for girls who did not wear make-up or color their hair or spend a lot of time and effort on their clothes. The opinion expressed was that such girls are “vain.” </p>
<p>For some reason (maybe because I have recently been contemplating dyeing my hair), I have been thinking about the merits of this comment. When does grooming become vain? Certainly normal hygiene is not vanity, but what is?</p>
<p>Well, that’s what the boys may THINK they want, but they probably also want girls to look good.</p>
<p>So what they’re really expressing a preference for is subtlety – that is, girls who look good but are not obvious about it. Their clothes may not be flashy, but they fit well and look good on that particular girl. A boy may think that a girl who lives in sweaters and jeans didn’t put much time and effort into her appearance, but in fact, she may have spent huge amounts of time finding a brand and style of jeans that fits her perfectly and sweaters that are flattering in both cut and color. This kind of girl may not wear obvious makeup, but she may be doing subtle things with cosmetics that a boy would never notice. And if for some reason she colors her hair, she chooses a color that exists in nature and is a reasonably good match for her skin tone, rather than something that obviously screams “dyed.” She may also have a close personal relationship with a ceramic hair straightener, a specific type of conditioner, tweezers, wax, and a variety of other products that don’t even appear on boys’ radar.</p>
<p>And all of that probably takes more effort than the “obvious” approach and involves at least as much vanity.</p>
<p>I think this is an excellent answer Marian! The boys Amesie has references say they prefer girls that have a more natural look. This doesn’t mean they wake up, brush their teeth, and put on the closest clothes that are on the floor. Maybe they don’t wear bright colored lipstick, eyeliner, and lots of mascara. They may wear a small amount of concealer under their eyes, some tinted moisturizer, and a sweep of mascara, with a bit of tinted lip balm. Perhaps mani/pedis aren’t on the list, however they may prefer clear polish or none at all, but neatly kept. As Marian stated, these young ladies generally know what clothes flatter them and keep things simple. It doesn’t mean they don’t spend time keeping well groomed or trying to look nice, their style is just understated.</p>
<p>agree with the above! There boys have no idea how much time/effort goes into these girls looking so natural!</p>
<p>I have happily observed that S’s female friends have a natural beauty that is so becoming. Even at prom last year, they were beautiful but not over-the-top crazy.</p>
<p>Congrats to these boys for having such good taste ;)</p>
<p>Apparently these boys expressed a preference for girls who did not wear make-up or color their hair or spend a lot of time and effort on their clothes.</p>
<p>Uh huh.
They like girls who spend enough time on their hair and makeup so that it doesn’t * look like* they spend a lot of time on their hair and makeup
As opposed to the girls who really * don’t* spend anytime on their appearance.
;)</p>
<p>My sons call girls that over do the grooming “high maintenance.” If they have to cart around a make-up bag they either end up dropping out of the group or getting with the program I’ve noticed. My H doesn’t like a ton of make-up either. You can be well groomed without overdoing it or spending time constantly touching up. I just think there’s two different kinds of guys. Guys that like that high maintenance “look” and guys that don’t. My boys are probably the way they are because that’s the way their dad is.</p>
<p>To answer the question, I think one becomes vain when one spends far too much time worrying about how one looks. If a person is constantly primping, looking in the mirror to make sure everything is just so and every hair in place and gets anxious if they don’t know how they look, they are vain…and also high maintenance LOL.</p>
<p>We started a family late, and I greyed early. When my D’s were 12 and 10, we were out to lunch, accompanied by a 10 yo niece. I can still remember sitting outside at this cute deli. The waiters and waitresses were college students. Our waiter introduced himself and, in trying to earn brownie points, asked if I was taking my darling granddaughters out to lunch. I was mid/late 40’s. And I was very grey. My oldest became indignant and said I should not leave him a tip. The two younger ones giggled and thought it was funny. I asked them if I should color my hair. They all said YES. I started doing so and never looked back. </p>
<p>Mind you, i don’t wear a stitch of makeup. Maybe once a year I put on lipstick. I do use lip balm every day, if that counts. But I get my hair colored and cut every 5-6 weeks. I have a great cut that is a little shorter in back and longer in front. It is easy. i blow dry it using a little gel and that is that. While I go every 5 weeks, I am very low maintenance otherwise. I can just get ready and go. But the color and this cute cut gets me lots of compliments. It looks very professional. And I feel very good about myself. It looks natural, and I think those teenage boys would approve, and you can do the same. Go for it.</p>
<p>Or they could really be girls who don’t spend a lot of time of their hair and makeup and are just naturally pretty…it does happen… of course those of us who don’t fall in to that category like to believe that * those* girls don’t exist because it would mean life’s not fair. :)</p>
<p>Seriously, in my son’s class the girls generally fell into two catergories - those who wore jeans and t-shirts and didn’t appear to wear a lot of makeup. Most of them had the same color hair they started out with in kindergarten (private schools - they’ve almost all be together since K-5) and wore their hair long and straight.</p>
<p>Then there were the girls who wore a lot of makeup and dressed like they were in ‘pick-up’ mode all the time. Some of those girls were also natural beauties but they often ruined the look by wearing all that makeup.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what they boys meant by ‘vain’ but in son’s group they really seemed to prefer the jeans and t-shirt type girls. They seem very unimpressed by the girls who were obviously working hard to look a certain way.</p>
<p>Vain is when you get a call from the nurse at your kids elementary school saying your child is sick at school, and instead of throwing on sweats and a pig-tail you shower, do your hair and make up…while your child is suffering in the clinic.</p>
<p>Are you ladies saying that young ladies need to dye their hair and wear make-up to look good?? Can’t a 16-20 yr old just be beautiful w/o dying, waxing, coloring and applying a lot (but not obvious as you have stated) make-up?</p>
<p>My goodness, if you can’t be beautiful w/ no help at that age, when can you?</p>
<p>^ I think what people are saying is the exact opposite. Looking good takes a bit of effort. If that look is natural, or more striking…it all takes work.
The OP stated the boys liked the girls who were more natural. Some pointed out that took effort as well. Another poster stated that her boys didn’t like the more ‘made up’ look. It’s a personal choice, but very few wake up looking wonderful. It takes a bit of handiwork, to look natural, what people referred to as ‘high maintenance’, and everything in between.</p>
<p>Maybe it’s an urban thing. I know around these parts in the summer teens go from the beach to the boat to the bikes to the campfire to camping out barely stopping to change clothes if they do. In the winter they hit the slopes all day, then pizza, and the bonfires at night or a movie generally again in whatever they put on in the morning. They are all abit better groomed in the spring and fall I must admit. Girls and boys. But, I know with three boys that the girls can clean up great…and the boys do notice although I doubt they’d put up with it on a regular basis if they felt it was “slowing things down.”</p>
<p>Are you ladies saying that young ladies need to dye their hair and wear make-up to look good??</p>
<p>no- what I am saying is, I am familiar enough with adolescent males to have observed that they * like* the thought of a young woman being interested enough in * them* to spend some effort on how they are perceived, but they dont want a girl to be obvious looking.</p>
<p>I remember conversations with young men who would make comments on one girls makeup then using me as a contrast- as someone who didnt use any-
ahem. It took me 40 minutes to look like I didnt use any and that was when I was16!
Ya know how long it takes * now*?
:p</p>
<p>There are two women at work; both are in their 50s and both still look pretty good. But one of them is commonly considered vain (and even sometimes refers to herself as such) and the other not. The difference seems to be degree of time and energy spent openly obsessing over every aspect of her looks. </p>
<p>If you ask the non-vain one she seems to be equally up on latest in cosmetic/fashion trends and technology, but she is much quieter and subtle about it all - making it seem very understated and effortless. Whereas the vain one is openly in a desperate battle against every new wrinkle or every new pound of weight gain. </p>
<p>As an example, neither woman is a competitive athlete but both pursue physical fitness for the sake of health and looking good. The vain one belongs to an expensive gym and has a personal trainer. The non-vain one rides a bike, sometimes runs in her neighborhood, and goes walking with friends. They probably get about the same amount of exercise, but the vain one is clearly in a “spare-no-effort-and-expense” mode in her pursuit of fitness. Wheras the other just seems to fit it in around the rest of her life.</p>
<p>If I were to sum up, I’d say to the non-vain one looking good is something she manages to do while living the rest of her life. For the vain one looking good IS her life.</p>
<p>Vain is more about attitude than time spent on grooming. My D colors her hair because, as an actress and dancer, she wants to stand out in casting calls. Now she is “the redhead” instead of just another brunette. She also spends a lot of time waxing, plucking, etc. But, vain - I don’t think so. Her personality is about as natural, unpretentious and fun as you would hope to see. And clothes? The funkier the better (and apparently “used” is better than “new.”)</p>
<p>I think much of it is their age group. At only 17, generally a girl has physical advantages over a woman of 40 for example. Younger skin, probably slimmer, less likely to have children, etc. The female standards of physical beauty for a boy of 17 is different than for a man of 40. Not a good/bad, just different stages of life.
I am guessing it is the same for women looking at men, but I’ve never been a woman so I don’t know!
And of course as all sophisticated women know, the time of day and the setting make a difference. One shouldn’t wear the same make-up or fragrance at a noon lunch that one might wear at midnight in a nightclub. High school boys and girls really don’t know that yet. Once again, the stage of their life.</p>