<p>What percentage of 4-year college freshmen are ready for calculus?</p>
<p>It seems like many are not, based on course provision for precalculus and lower level math at many 4-year universities.</p>
<p>For example, Arizona State University, a large state university that takes in a wide range of 4-year college bound students (there are only three 4-year state universities in Arizona, so the state universities take wide ranges of students from the top students to the marginal ones), takes about 9,500 new freshmen per year.</p>
<p>For spring 2012, there is classroom space on the main campus for 2,605 students in precalculus and lower level math courses. There is also classroom space for 3,310 students in first semester calculus (of various levels, with 2,415 for less rigorous courses for business or biology majors), implying that the students in those courses (including 895 taking either calculus for engineers or calculus for math majors) were not ready for calculus last fall.</p>
<p>So the total would be 5,915 out of about 9,500, or 62%, were not ready to take calculus upon entry.</p>
<p>If this is really the case, that indicates a very big problem in high school math education. Calculus is supposed to the the “at grade level” math for 4-year college freshmen, who are presumably in the top third or so of high school graduates in terms of academic performance in high school. That most of this group is not ready for calculus indicates that high school math education is severely lacking.</p>
<p>Or maybe most of the students not advanced enough for calculus end up at an institution such as ASU (no disrespect intended). I’m sure the numbers at higher level schools are quite different.</p>
<p>I used ASU as an example because it likely has a wide cross section of the entire 4-year college bound student population, not a small slice at the top or bottom of that population.</p>
<p>But even some of the most selective schools have students who are not fully ready for college calculus. Harvard offers a Math Ma and Mb sequence which covers what is normally the first semester of freshman calculus in a year (although enrollment in those courses appears to be only about 3% of its freshmen). Not every student at Harvard is a math genius who takes its triple-honors Math 55a and 55b sequence.</p>
<p>For many freshman students, if they don’t need calculus for a graduation requirement, they wouldn’t waste their freshman class schedule taking the class. It is not uncommon to see non-STEM majors taking the math requirments as seniors, and choosing to take non-calculus math courses, such as statistics or game theory classes. Just because there is space it doesn’t immediately imply that those not taking the courses are in remedial math. Of course, I remember a study a few years ago that listed the number of students in CSUs that needed remedial English and math and it was disturbingly high.</p>
<p>The math courses that I was counting enrollment space for were titled “college algebra”, “precalculus”, and the like, as opposed to statistics or game theory type of courses. The students in those courses may not be intending to take calculus, but may still need the remedial courses to prepare for alternate courses like statistics.</p>
<p>Your initial post got me curious so I looked back at what my son took as a freshman(he’s currently a junior). He took both linear algebra and calculus first semester and vector geometry and calculus 2nd semester.As a sophomore, he took multivariable calculus 1st semester and theoretical statistics second semester. 1st semester junior he took statistics for engineers. Never took calculus in high school even though on track to do so. Just didn’t feel like it which I never got at the time. If I remember correctly, he had to do some online test before he started school for placement purposes. Also had over 700 on math SAT so maybe that’s why they let him take calculus despite not having taken it in high school. Not sure though.</p>
<p>I do not have a source for this, but nationwide, about 50 percent of colllege freshmen enroll in some type of remediation, which would include English. At our community college 80 percent of freshmen enroll in remedial math. And Maryland is reported to have the best public schools in America. What a joke.</p>
<p>MD Mom, Not sure it is totally a public school issue. My sons went to a very diverse city public school(both racially and economically) and both did very well in math in college.</p>
<p>It is not totally a public school issue; there is an ongoing thread about a freshman who made A grades in math and science at a private school, but placed into precalculus in college and is thus behind in his engineering curriculum.</p>
<p>Remember, the students going to 4-year colleges as freshmen are supposed to be the top performers academically in high school. If high schools (whether public or private) are not properly teaching them math (and English) to keep them “at grade level” as college freshmen, then they are not doing their job.</p>
<p>Wow I thought all college bound kids should be ready for calculus whether they take it or not…I must be living in the dark ages. Don’t they have to have 4 years of high school math for college? I always though it was 4 years of math, 4 years of science, 4 years of English, 4 years of a language and 4 years of history/social sciences plus some art/music/theater/phys ed type classes. I know in Michigan kids must have 4 years of math to even graduate from high school which is somewhat controversial. Perhaps the non-college bound set wouldn’t be ready because they aren’t ready for algebra in high school so they can’t get to trig or beginner calculus as a senior, but the college bound set certainly should be ready. I’ve heard about remediation in college but didn’t think it pertained to the kind of numbers that are being talked about here. </p>
<p>I actually think that it is a great mission for community college to take not quite ready for college students, get them up to speed and send them on to 4 year institutions for junior and senior year. I think it’s also not a bad idea for colleges to have a “pre-college” year for kids that can afford it to get in get up to speed and then move into a traditional course of study. We have one directional university that has an established provisional program like this. But 50% of all college freshman? I guess I’d have to see the numbers of kids who are in provisional programs or community college settings on a college track program vs. a 2 year licensure program or some such thing and compare that to all kids in 4 year colleges before I could believe a 50% number. 2 of my 3 kids were never “great” at math and opted for AP statistics rather than trig or calc as seniors, but they both needed calculus in college and they both took it reluctantly as freshmen and managed to pass without a ton of heartache.</p>
<p>momof3boys,That’s exactly what younger son did-took AP statistics as high school senior instead of calculus. Older son did all the math stuff in high school-AB,BC calculus, plus AP Statistics. Younger son just decided he didn’t want to do calculus in high school.</p>
<p>Four years of high school math is required by our school district,but for average or below average kids there are some pretty creative math classes, momofthreeboys.</p>
<p>I would also argue that the purpose of high school is NOT always designed to get kids ready for college. I have colleagues who also argue that people should be happy wih Cs because Cs indicate average for grade level and aren’t the majority of kids average? This is not how I feel.</p>
No, not at all. The UC system requires 3 years of math (through advanced algebra) – and that is all my d. had. She was accepted to Barnard & U of Chicago as well as 3 UC campuses, including Berkeley. We looked carefully at the math requirement at the time (6 years ago) and the only university on her list that insisted on 4 years of math was Boston U – she applied anyway and they waitlisted her, so I’m not sure that even their requirement was cast in stone. </p>
<p>I also don’t think any college requires 4 years of foreign language or history/social studies, though I think all want 4 years of English </p>
<p>Anyway… I’m not sure I quite see the point for a non-STEM major. When are they going to use or apply the calculus? If they are interested in math… great – but if not, then it doesn’t really matter whether they would have been able to handle it or not.</p>
<p>My son has already been very good in math, took calculus in high school, but did’t take any math in college … so even being “ready” doesn’t mean that the person will enroll in the course.</p>
<p>I believe our non-STEM D only took pre-calculus in CC. Don’t think she’s ever taken calculus and was told she didn’t need it. She’s majoring in cinema. For S (engineer), when they had orientation, they did math placement tests. ALL the engineering students at the orientation placed into calculus or beyond & were accordingly registered into calculus & beyond. FWIW, S said he didn’t learn ANYTHING new until 4th semester of his EE curriculum, since the U forced them to repeat so much of his courses from his AP HS courses. He certainly got a solid math/physics foundation!! Don’t know how much remediation there was at his & D’s U for calculus (or English).</p>
<p>Yes, that’s what I thought (maybe not required, but definitely recommended for college bound students). But apparently, there are many high schools (public or private) where four years of high school math instruction is of poor enough quality that when the students get to college and take a math placement test, they do poorly enough to be placed in precalculus or lower math.</p>
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<p>University of Michigan’s fall 2011 schedule lists 42 sections of what appear to be precalculus math courses. Checking a few sections indicates that they are 28 students each. If every section is 28 students, that means that 1,176 students enrolled in precalculus math courses in fall 2011. That is about 19% of the 6,236 freshmen at this relatively selective public university. (Michigan has several other less selective public universities, so one can assume that University of Michigan has a group of 4-year college freshmen with higher academic ability than Arizona State University does.)</p>
<p>Some social studies majors require calculus and/or statistics, so one cannot completely ignore math for such majors (statistics is so commonly used in social studies that even if it is not required, someone majoring in social studies should get some knowledge of the subject). Philosophy requires logical thinking skills which are similar to mathematical thinking skills.</p>
<p>Also, many universities have a math or “quantitative reasoning” graduation requirement that may require at least a precalculus level of math competency (i.e. ready for calculus, even if one does not actually take calculus).</p>
<p>But note that not all STEM majors are that math heavy. Biology is not, although, like social studies, it tends to use a lot of statistics.</p>
<p>Our small public school system teaches Algebra in 8th grade. The normal progression in HS is Geometry as Freshman, Algebra 2 as a Sophomore, PreCalc as a Junior, and AP Calc as a Senior. There were only 8 kids in my D1s Calculus class, and 2 of the kids took regular (non AP) Calculus, since they ‘were not going to be engineers’ (even though both went into STEM majors.) The other seniors took “College Math Review”, which according to kids who took it, was a very easy course.</p>
<p>D1 is an engineering major, and the lowest level math course offered at her school is Calculus 1. She placed out of Calc 1 and 2, and did very well in Calc 3 and 4.</p>
<p>The key seems to be making the cut for the “normal” progression ^^^^^of math as a high school freshman. If not, then it appears a child may be unprepared for college calculus.</p>
<p>S1 was not ready on day one of 9th grade to take the higher level math, but he was by middle of the school year and spent the rest of his high school years unchallenged in math yet never able to take calc. (first time mother :p) </p>
<p>For a whole host of reasons, I think there are many kids out there who didn’t make the cut for 9th grade geometry. (middle school teacher didn’t recommend, parents didn’t know they should have pushed for it, child had the aptitude but messed around in middle school, child needed a couple months to mature, etc)</p>
<p>Agreed. If anything…the above indicates that BU felt she was “overqualified” and were afraid of her REJECTING THEM. A similar thing happened to one high school classmate when he was rejected by Long Island University despite gaining admission to several elite schools…including a few in the HYPSMC category. </p>
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<p>With the exception of some elite colleges/LACs…I’m not sure that has been true for the last few decades. </p>
<p>There were plenty of 4-year colleges…even some great flagship state universities which accept students with C/D averages…especially if they were in-state. </p>
<p>Moreover…some of those state flagships have been doing it as far back as the 1940’s for in-state students. Only difference was that back then…those schools placed every incoming freshman on notice that they must work hard to remain in the top half or they’d be weeded out by the end of the sophomore or even freshman year. </p>
<p>This also applies to many private universities. A friend at Northeastern University in Boston who was an incoming freshman in 1991 recalled how at orientation they were told that most of them won’t make it to graduation. However, it seems like they did away with that part of orientation when a younger friend started there in the early 2000s. The older NEU alum friend mentioned it was probably due to much more stringent admission requirements, reduction of seats for admitted freshmen, and a transition of NEU from a regional commuter school to a national one.</p>