<p>ACT math has approx 2 trig questions.</p>
<p>No UofM does not require Calculus for all kids. The point is that there is an expectation that the kids are prepared to take Calculus (if they need it). I have no idea what each individual major at UofM requires. This relates to the OP asking what percentage of kids are prepared and my shock and dismay that kids that are accepted to UofM a selective college are not “all” prepared.</p>
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Fortunately for my d., the admissions directors at Berkeley, Univ. of Chicago, and her alma mater (Barnard) do not agree with your viewpoint. While my daughter was “opting out” of math, she was “opting in” to courses and challenges that made her extremely attractive as a college applicant and exceptionally well prepared for college and career. </p>
<p>I think that NoNameNeil said it best in post #113: “If being unprepared for calculus meant somebody should not be in college, college would be very monotonous.”</p>
<p>I happen to be the parent of one kid who was extremely precocious in math, but struggled as a child with reading and language arts; and another who was extremely precocious in reading and language arts, athletic & artistically talented as well … but has always found math to be a struggle. The most important criteria for success at college was internal self-discipline, maturity, and motivation – it happened in my family that kid with the weak math skills was the one who arrived at her college campus with those qualifications in place.</p>
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<p>Four, actually. Two are always right angle questions that can be solved using the Pythagorean Theorem. </p>
<p>Back to regular programming. :)</p>
<p>Wouldn’t that be plane geometry?</p>
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Why? Whose expectation is that? Why not, say, an expectation that all students are prepared to read Latin & Greek, in case they decide to become a classics major? Why not an expectations that all students are prepared to play an instrument and sight read music, in case they decide to become a music major?</p>
<p>I know many folks with college degrees who have never taken or needed calculus (or pre-calc). They took the math in HS &/or college that was required but chose not to take more than that. I know I took calculus in HS & tried it again in college but stopped after the 1st semester. It was not something I enjoyed and did not really apply to my major (sociology) or profession (law). </p>
<p>I did find logic, statistics and computer sciences, all of which both of my Us considered as fulfilling my math requirement to be more relevant and interesting. I hadn’t even needed to take calculus in college but wanted to try it again to see if a better teacher would make it more interesting and relevant–never “clicked” for me, tho I had enjoyed math prior to that. A relative chose her major & profession in the 70s by the field that required the least math–elementary education. It did not require anything approaching pre-calculus – I know because I was her tutor while I was still in HS. She later got a MA in special ed from a very well-regarded OOS U on full-ride & still didn’t require any additional math. (She was an excellent special ed & english teacher & tutor; she also tutored lower level math & helped kids prep for SATs, including math.)</p>
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<p>If we’re talking about a major in a conservatory like the one attached to my alma mater, being able to play an instrument(classical, jazz, or certain electronic forms) and sight read music are considered the most basic expectations to even apply as they evaluate mainly through selective audition.</p>
<p>Does one need to take calculus to go to medical schools? I thought not (maybe not Calculus III).</p>
<p>That’s the point-- my guess is that none of those conservatory students are ever required to take calculus.</p>
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<p>Yes, but the real point is that the high schools are failing by not teaching students properly the first time around. Students interested in going to college to study something that requires college level math should be able to count on high school math through precalculus to properly prepare them for college level math. Unfortunately, it appears that most college bound students cannot count on that, based on the high levels of enrollment in remedial math courses.</p>
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<p>You are not dissatisfied with his high school for failing to properly prepare him for college level math the first time around? UMCP did what it had to do – but should UMCP have had to do that in the first place if his high school had done its job?</p>
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Apparently med school entrance requirements vary:</p>
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Source: [Premed</a> Planning - The Timeline and Steps to Become a Doctor](<a href=“Maintenance Page - MomMD”>Maintenance Page - MomMD)</p>
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<p>Actually, high schools did not teach any statistics back when I was in high school. So it seems that statistics has had its importance relative to calculus increased over the years, although perhaps only because the creation of an AP test gave high schools incentive to offer it as an AP course (though it is commonly thought of as a low rigor or high school level course compared to other AP courses).</p>
<p>Re post #131. How do you know whether the problem with the student who had to retake precalc was because the high school failed to teach properly, or the student just had a tougher time retaining and applying that information? Math comes very naturally to some students, not so for others. I don’t think you really can assume either that the shortcoming lies with the teaching or that it lies with the student without knowing more. I have probably had the fortune, or misfortune, to see both the best possible and worst possible math teachers at my kids’ respective high schools – but I also once spent a semester working with 7th graders to prep them on pre-algebra concepts, and those kids were all over the map in terms of their readiness and the ease or difficulty with which they picked up concepts.</p>
<p>My D was forced to have THE SAME math book & course 3 years in a row, going over THE SAME problems (getting a B or better each year). She would have had it a FOURTH YEAR, for 7th grade but I had her take math at an elite private summer school (with a great reputation for math & science) and she got a B in it, so they FINALLY allowed her to take the next level. They admitted that if she had taken math AT ANY OTHER SCHOOL IN THE STATE (includnig THEIR summer school or any other elite private school), they would have made her take THE SAME MATH for a 4th year in a row! We were so glad to get her into that elite private school, where she actually was taught and learned math in a logical progression rather than repeating endlessly with huge gaps in the curriculum. </p>
<p>The school NEVER told us (or anyone else) that this was the only way for her to get out of retaking the same class endlessly, we are just fortunate that I decided that I wanted her to go somewhere I had more confidence in and HOPED it might make a difference.</p>
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<p>But what would you say if a high school freshman were taking pre-algebra, which is one year behind normal grade level (normal grade level is algebra 1 as a high school freshman)?</p>
<p>Having to take precalculus as a college freshman (if necessary to prepare for calculus or statistics or otherwise for the student’s major) is analogous.</p>
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<p>You keep making the point that not all students will need to take calculus.</p>
<p>However, the very large enrollment in precalculus and lower math courses at universities indicates that there are a lot of students who do need to take those math courses but did not learn the course content adequately in high schools that should have taught them that course content. The real point of the thread is to point out that many high schools are not doing their job.</p>
<p>(Have to remind myself to start a similar thread about remedial English composition course enrollment when next fall’s schedules get posted by universities. Unfortunately, last fall’s schedules have mostly disappeared, making it harder to count enrollment in remedial English composition, into which universities usually force-enroll freshmen in the fall if they do not pass whatever placement tests they use.)</p>
<p>I think most would agree that we expect college grads to be able to read and write English adequately. I believe many at our state flagship & elsewhere have had to take remedial English and I find that more troubling that how many kids need to take pre-calculus or lower in college. English is the way those of us in the US generally communicate and is important for nearly every field; math at higher levels, not so much.</p>
<p>Just got this off one of our state webpages:
“An estimated 89% of students in Hawaii’s community colleges require remediation in math, and 68% require remediation in English.” </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.hawaii.edu/ncate/ncate_report/introduction.htm[/url]”>http://www.hawaii.edu/ncate/ncate_report/introduction.htm</a>
This is pretty troubling to me. I was a product of our state public schools & our kids went to public schools through 8th grade. Understanding that not ALL kids go to CCs, this is still a VERY high % getting remediation!</p>
<p>Meh. I don’t think anyone needs calculus, so I am not at all concerned whether or not college freshmen are up to snuff in that arena.</p>
<p>I went to UMCP back in 1987 and hadn’t taken math in my senior year of HS. I had no idea there’d be a math placement test at freshman orientation, and I failed. I had to take Math 001, which actually was very tough for me.</p>
<p>Anyway, having to take Math 001 didn’t set me back. I took it in the summer, and FWIW, it was helpful to take the course at that time, because we were required to go every single day for hours (since summer courses only ran for six weeks). IIRC, there was a small fee for taking the course, but it wasn’t anything comparable to the cost of a regular class.</p>
<p>And hey, I skipped having to take freshman English because of my AP score, so it all evened out in the end! (Even better, I gave birth to a son who’s a math genius…what’s that all about?)</p>
<p>Yea, the funny thing in our household is that our S is MUCH better at math & sciences than either H or I ever was. Oh well, glad he understands the stuff!</p>