I asked my freshman math teacher to do one of my LORs because he has also been my powerlifting coach for the last 3 years. I knew that he was kind of socially awkward (one of those too smart to function in society types) but I didn’t expect that to extend to his writing. The one word that jumped straight into my head reading the first draft was “lackluster.” I am applying to a few top tier schools and I don’t want them to think that the best person I could come up with for a recommendation doesn’t really care that much about me. Should I tell him what I think? Suggest changes? Of what type? I have no idea what to do. Maybe would one of you like to read it and give me further feedback? Thanks CC, I have faith in the wisdom of your masses.
quietly let it go. Shred & delete all copies. Get another LoR.
That’s EXACTLY what I would think. Go to your GC and tell him/her your dilemma and seek advice on your Plan B candidates. GCs know the writing quality of teachers… they might not outright say “avoid X” but they may quietly steer you towards Y and Z.
Good luck
Your freshman math teacher doesn’t sound like the best choice in any event. Colleges usually want to see a teacher who has had you more recently - ideally junior year so they’ve had a whole year with you, but haven’t forgotten who you are yet. I don’t think the powerlifting aspect adds that much.
Well, for top schools, freshman teachers aren’t the ideal people to be asking anyways. What you were freshmen yea is not who you are now.
You said you read the first draft of his rec?
Did you waive your FERPA rights on the Common App?
Thanks for the prompt answers. However, I feel that my school might be the exception, unfortunately, to some of the things mentioned above. Yes, I had him freshman year, but I guess a pertinent piece of info would be that I also had him for precalc last year. My school is very small, only about 500 kids so we all become well acquainted even if we’re only in a teacher’s class for one year. Powerlifting is a major theme on my application, considering I went to and placed at the national competition with him as my coach. I’m not sure what the whole FERPA thing is, but that’s just how everyone does it. Our counselor gives us an info sheet to fill out, the teachers write, and they ask for feedback. Is it really that big of a deal? I sure hope not… But anyway, the only other teachers that I’ve made true connections with are my biology/AP bio/anatomy teacher who is the other one of my main 2 recommenders, my chem/AP chem teacher who I fear would do even worse than the math teacher, and my french teacher, but most schools want them to come from core subjects, which I don’t think includes languages. Looking back at my time in high school it makes me really sad that I can’t come up with more teachers that would love to write a rec letter for me, but I guess that’s just the way the chips fell and now I’ve got to figure it out. Even considering teachers that I didn’t have a profound relationship with, I’m left with few options. The size of my school causes a lot of overlap in teachers, hence the same one for general and AP subjects as mentioned before and geometry/precalc. Our main English teacher left and I haven’t had time to become close with my AP language teacher yet. The guy I had for APUSH and now AP politics is cool, and we get along, that just isn’t my favorite subject area so we aren’t that close outside of those two classes. That leaves me with very little. Man, sometimes I just wish I could’ve gone to a bigger school, haha.
Do you have a scout leader or priest who knows you well?
Recommendations come from a lot of places.
Not in the scouts and nonreligious, but the main two recommendations are meant to be teachers you had in core subjects (math, science, english, history) in your upperclassman years. If I need an additional non-teacher rec though, I know I would use my supervisor from the science museum I volunteer at. So now I’m just trying to hone in on this teacher fiasco, thanks for the comment though.
FERPA pertains to your right to see your letters of recommendation among other documentation. When you send your application in, you are asked if you will waive your FERPA rights - the right to see those letters of recommendation - so that teachers can write frankly without fear of repercussions. It sounds like at your school, teachers are fine with sharing their letters of rec and even though you waive your rights, the teachers are still allowed to share their letters if they choose to. In your case, that’s a good thing because this teacher is not doing you a service.
Normally, if a teacher feels they can’t write a good letter of rec for a student, they simply say, “I don’t think I’m the best person to write this letter for you.” That’s your signal to go somewhere else. If they don’t say that, then there are two possibilities 1) they are jerks (unlikely) or 2) they don’t know how to write a good letter or what exactly is expected of them. Guidance counselors, who see these letters, generally know which teachers are in these categories and can steer kids away.
Assuming your coach/math teacher is a category (2), and you otherwise have a good and companionable relationship, you can go back to him and talk about the letter. Ask if he really meant to describe you or any aspect of your performance as as 'lackluster. In fact, ask if he feels comfortable writing this letter and if he’s prefer that you ask someone else. He should either admit that he’s not the best person to write this or ask what you’d like him to say instead. If he needs help, point him to MIT’s advice to letter of rec writers: http://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/writingrecs
If you still aren’t comfortable after talking to him, talk to your GC about getting another teacher to write a letter for you. Even a neutral letter is better than one that uses the term ‘lackluster,’ especially from a 9th grade teacher. It says, as you suspected, that you couldn’t find anyone to say anything more positive about you.
If he said you were lackluster in 9th grade, but fabulous in pre-calc you’re probably okay, but otherwise, this is really not helpful at all. You are lucky to be able to see what the teacher had to say. Between my two kids my youngest saw only one of his teacher recommendations, and the oldest saw only one of the outside recommendations. They waived their rights to see things, but as others have noted, the fact that you have waived your rights doesn’t mean the recommender can’t show you the letter if they want to.
Did you ask him about whether it was necessary to use the word lackluster to describe you?
I don’t think he said that the OP was a lackluster student. The overall letter just wasn’t glowing (aka, was lackluster).
*The one word that jumped straight into my head reading the first draft was “lackluster.” *
Is powerlifting so relevant to this college that you need the coach?
We don’t know more of what was written- most hs kids can’t really evaluate as an adult can. The point is adult educators telling adult adcoms about you. If history or French can do a bang up job and you get a great other science rec, you may be fine. Some of this depends on the major and level of college. Some kids will use the calc teacher, even if it’s only been this semester.
Don’t worry so much abut Ferpa. Many kids do get to see their recs. Adcoms won’t disqualify you for that.
Agree to talk to the GC. And, it’s not just the buddy-buddy thing that yields a great rec. It’s their ability to hone in on what matters.
Did you actually see the letter or just notes?
Bodangles is right that lackluster was just the feeling I got when I was reading the letter, I would be in a lot worse of a position if a teacher actually called me lackluster in a letter! Lookingforward, powerlifting may not be relevant to the college but it is relevant to me and who I am as a person and member of my school community, it’s one of the things I’m well known for, ie “the girl who lifts a lot of weight.” And it seems that some didn’t notice that I added that I did indeed have him again as a junior, so the whole freshman teacher thing isn’t a big deal. At this point I really think the french teacher could do a good job but I don’t think Dartmouth and Penn want a core rec from a language teacher. Am I correct in this assumption? Is that the general consensus? Also, referring back to one of my old posts, a lot of posters here give a lot of credit to counselors, but mine is relatively new and is not all that privy to selective admissions (I told her I was taking the SAT subject tests and she asked me what those were). I don’t think she’d be more help than you guys. Again, would anyone like to actually read a copy of the letter for a better understanding of what I’m talking about? PM me with your email if you want. Thanks again though, for the support, it’s hard living in a small town where no one really dreams beyond the local community colleges.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, N’s Mom, that I actually printed that off and gave it to him stapled to my brag sheet haha. I guess it wasn’t as much help as we thought it would be.
You can use the foreign language teacher recommendation. My D did that and, along with a decidedly “average” LOR from a science teacher (he cc’d her when he sent the recommendation to a non Common App school). She had great results.
See, I feel that it would be okay to do that for Madison, but I’m worried about the repercussions of using an elective teacher at the ivies.
Language teachers love to be “colorful” in their descriptions of students.
It might give you a nod in admissions to have a foreign language teacher trump up your qualities.
You do realize that the Ivies are not guaranteed for you regardless of who writes your LOR, right? They are reaches for everyone. One LOR is not going to break you. And, if one teacher finds you lackluster, whose to say the others won’t either? It might be the vibe you give.
I don’t think the schools consider a foreign language an elective really.
Here’s what Penn says:
Recommendations from teachers give us a more subjective evaluation of your work and provide a perspective that may not be evident from grades and scores. Penn requires two teacher recommendations, ideally from teachers with whom you have had class in your junior or senior year in major academic subjects—math, science, social science, English, or foreign language. We take teacher commentaries seriously, so it is best to find people who are well acquainted with your work and potential.
Yale:
Your recommenders must be able to write about your recent work in rigorous academic subjects. We strongly encourage you to submit recommendations from 11th and 12th grade teachers. Yale has an extremely competitive applicant pool, so it’s probably unwise to submit a recommendation from a favorite 9th grade teacher or from a coach or chorus director unless he or she has also taught you recently in an academic course.
Yale doesn’t require that these recommendations come from teachers of particular subjects. It’s a good idea, however, to have the two letters come from teachers of two different subjects. Choose teachers who know you well and can give us a sense of your academic and personal strengths.
My suggestion would be to never simply ask for a letter of recommendation. I would suggest asking if the writer would offer “an outstanding” letter of recommendation. With the FERPA laws you not will not see the letter and you want to ensure your recommender is writing a strong recommendation. Students have bee blindsided with poor recommendations because they chose poorly and/or did not ask the right question.
Good luck.
Yes, you can use French, if that teacher can hone in.
I had my doubts about using language teacher, but my oldest never put forth his full effort in English and History and MIT required one science/math and one humanities/social science recommendation. In the end he went with his Latin teacher who had had him all four years - he was taking AP Latin. I have no idea what she said. He didn’t get into MIT, but he did get into Harvard and Carnegie Mellon.