What to do about a parent who doesn't spend time w/ kid, always putting friends 1st?

Parent Cafe
61

'Um, no. It’s not the same at all. That’s ludicrous, imo.

This kid was not beaten, he was not raped, he was (and is) ignored and neglected. How one copes with being raped and killed and how one copes with being neglected and ignored are very different.’

I didn’t say it was the same thing, it was an analogy.My point is there usually can be something worse, if someone is paralyzed in an accident, they could have died; if there father is an emotionally abusive ass, he could have physically hurt the spouse or kids, if he was a drunk, it could be worse, he could be a drunk who didn’t support his family, and the real point is saying it could be worse trivializes what someone is going through.

No, being beaten and raped or whatnot is not the same thing as being emotionally neglected, and I never said that. My point was that trivializing the pain of emotional neglect by saying that it could be worse is trivializing a very real issue, that is all, it is the old idea that emotions and pain don’t mean anything, that all that matters are concrete things like food and shelter and such, or that in comparison to worse trauma, what they are complaining about ‘doesn’t matter’.and it does matter. The implication is that since dear old dad provided food and a shelter (and note, he is not paying for college), that therefore it is no big deal, and I don’t buy that, not as an outside observer, and not as a father myself. I have run into plenty of guys like the father in this thread, people who are all so wonderful to outside people, bask in the glory of being seen as a ‘nice guy’, and could give a crap less about being there for his kids, and having known guys like that, it is because they don’t see a need or a ‘payoff’ in being there for his kids, or worse, assume that all they are required to do are the ‘tangible’ things.

62

You’ve had many good comments Orphan. I wanted to chime in yesterday, but really can’t add much to what has already been said. You are in my thoughts. Please know that this is not your fault. And you are entitled to your own feelings; it’s what you do with those feelings that matter.

One thing I would encourage with all my heart is to find a good counselor - someone neutral/qualified whom you can talk to.

It took me a long time to figure out that I can’t control other people (sounds simple doesn’t it?). I can pray, I can love, I can wail and gnash my teeth, I can nag, I can get angry. But I will never change another person solely by my own efforts. The person has to want to change. Ultimately I can only change myself.

The anger is a step in the process but it doesn’t have to be the final stop. Wishing you clarity and peace.

63

@musicprnt wrote " that therefore it is no big deal,"

Um, never said that. What I said was that the kid needed to accept his circumstances and accept that he couldn’t change his father, so he could move on in a healthy direction in his life.

You are all so stuck on the dad-you give him so much power over this kid by getting all worked up and angry about what a jerk the dad is. Yes, he is. So what. There are a ton of jerky people out there. None of them can be fixed.

64

@orphan:

To be honest, while I more than understand where you are coming from, and how much it hurts (and it does, having a distant parent like that gives the kid the idea they just aren’t important, how can it feel when the father cares about the ills of everyone else and ignores his own kid? I belonged to a very liberal church at one point, and the pastor was like that, he was very big on issues, but didn’t notice that his own kids were lacking in life skills and when they messed up, was shocked they did…yet he would criticize parents for being ‘too involved’ in their own kid’s lives)…it is kind of like the shoemaker’s kids having the worst shoes, the builder’s kids the worst house, and so forth…

I will tell you bluntly that if after all this time your father is clueless, he likely will be going forward, it sounds like he lives in his own world and doesn’t even see there being a problem, and if you point out the problem, will likely deny it. I agree with others, moving forward, find your family where you can, and accept that with your dad, things likely won’t change much.It is hard, because growing up we take a lot of validation from our parents (it is why parents favoring children is so damn deadly), and kids take these kinds of things to heart, and no logic makes it feel any better. One of the things is you have the right to your feelings, and don’t let anyone deride them, but the key is what you do with them, channel your feelings into finding relationships that do affirm you, friends, and someday down the road, a spouse and hopefully their family. In the end, if your dad is as you say, he will find out down the road what he is missing, and you have every right to have him in your life or not, to what level you feel comfortable with. To me a child owes the parent nothing, other than to try and lead a happy life, and if someone tries to guilt you into having a relationship with your dad you don’t want, you have no obligation to IMO, as an adult you have the right to set up your own relationships, including with family:).

65

“You are all so stuck on the dad-you give him so much power over this kid by getting all worked up and angry about what a jerk the dad is. Yes, he is. So what. There are a ton of jerky people out there. None of them can be fixed.”

Actually, no, what I was giving the kid was the right to their feelings, to the hurt and so forth,but what I and others also said was they needed to move on and realize they couldn’t change the dad. We are talking a young kid here, and it obviously still is hurting them, and my point was they had the right to those feelings, and that the dad had nowhere to hide IMO, which carries some weight, since I am a dad myself. What I don’t want to hear is the crap that clergy and far too many people dish out, that the kid’s duty is to overlook the parent’s faults, it is their duty to keep the parent in their life, etc (which, @motherofdragons, you did not do, others did with their saying the dad loved the kid, because he provided a roof over their head and so forth, which is not lov), I simply was telling them they had the right to feel hurt and angry, the emotions are real and powerful, but that now it is time to channel those feelings into something constructive, which IMO is not in trying to change the dad or even trying to have him in their life:).

It drives me to distraction the idea that somehow kids owe their parents something, that no matter what the parent did, that that bond is special, sacred, etc, I have heard it told to someone whose parent was sexually and physically abusive towards them, but that didn’t matter, their duty was to dear old dad because, well, you can imagine gag (again, @motherofdragons, that was not you, and I agree with your advice of moving on)

66

@orphan I have a very close friend who is high level functioning on spectrum and he is in a very similar situation as you. The dad pays all kinds of attention to one of my friends brothers, but ignores my friend, who is the kindest, coolest young man I will ever have the pleasure to know. So I know exactly how you feel.

The advice I give my friend is that you can’t change who people are. They are who they are and we must accept that, unfortunately. You can not blame yourself.

As someone above mentioned, try to get your dad to go hiking with you. It is a great bonding activity. If he’s not interested, you just have to accept that and move on. I wish I had better advice.

Hang in there and maybe try to connect with some old friends that can help you occupy you time while at home.

67

OP, I’m sorry for your situation. Your dad is lucky that you still are invested enough to want more from that relationship. It sounds like your dad really likes to be a helper and that he gets a lot of satisfaction out of being there for his friends. What I would suggest is that you go beyond simply asking for more time together. Instead, you should focus on how his actions make you feel and say something like this: “Dad, I love you, but I feel like we are very disconnected. During the limited time we are together, something else always seems to take priority on our time together. When that happens, it makes me feel like I am not important to you. When you choose to address someone else’s problem at the expense of our time, it makes me feel like our relationship doesn’t matter. I understand that other people are important, but I would ask that you try and do that during the time when I am back at school. Right now, I feel like you don’t enjoy spending time with me and that you don’t care that we really don’t have much of a relationship. If I’m wrong, and I hope I am, then perhaps next time I am home, or if you come to visit me at school, that you will be able to put aside time to spend with me and not let anyone or anything else encroach on that time.” Make it clear that you have a problem and that your problem is caused by him. Good luck!

68

^^The minute you try that with this dad he’s going to throw it all back on Orphan and make him feel like Orphan’s done something terribly wrong and is being selfish.

Been there, done that, got the t shirt, have the emotional scars.

69

Orphan, I am sad for you. It’s hard enough with the issues of being on the spectrum, and struggling with how to express things to people. Though you seem to do it very well in print. It would absolutely break our hearts if we heard one of kids even felt like this for a minute. I think it used to be far more the norm for fathers to not spend much time with their children, but that has changed significantly over time. It has got to be incredibly painful to see the attention and time that other fathers lavish on their children, and see how much time your father is spending with people other than you.

However, I think there are a couple of ways that I would consider handling this. You can accept that this is the way it is, that your father will barely be in your life, and be at peace with it (because suffering will do you absolutely no good). You can figure out a way to communicate this to him (perhaps in email, if that is easier for you to express your emotions). He may just ignore it, be offended, or maybe he will change his behavior—you really can’t know. I personally would probably do something a little more manipulative.

He seems to want to help people who have problems, and who need him for something specific. Is that correct? So how about you have a problem that he is knowledgeable about, and can help you with? Not something serious. So many kids have put themselves in danger just to get attention from their parents, and you don’t want to do that. Find something that you can have a connection with him about, and something that HE is interested in, and likes would be your best bet. I have, at times, had difficulty getting one of my sons to talk. Finding activities that he was interested in doing or talking about, asking for advice about things he was knowledgeable really helped. Much better than small talk generic banter that he was not interested in and not good at. He is very interesting, helpful, wants to do some things with us now, and it is much easier connecting with him now that we have common interests. Being on the spectrum is challenging for both children and parents, but it just means you have to try harder, not give up!

70

@orphan I feel you on this topic- conflicted emotions are some of the hardest things ever. I agree with the point of having a frank talk with your dad and explaining how you feel. If this does not work, remember that only you can decide to make you happy. Have a family outing with just your mom or other family, or plan a little vacation. Talk late into the night, or just try your best. Just remember, that you create your own happinesses, and to spend time and think about situations that make you happy. It doesn’t sound like your dad is too unhappy- so just let that be, if the dinner plan does not work out. It’s hard to think our parents aren’t the omniscient figures, always helping us, as we think when we are children. However, sometimes, you must accept things and you really really have to -choose- to be happy.

71

I am going to chime in to say that parents are BIG deal to kids. We may think what we say or do shouldn’t have that much impact on our kids, but we do. We may think our kids should just move on when we don’t give them the love they deserve, no they don’t. We can all tell ourselves that we shouldn’t let our parents define who we are, but we do. I see it in my kids all the time, especially my younger daughter. She likes to tell me it is her decision to make on everything in her life, but if I should just show a bit of disapproval she would take it to hears. I am over 50, and I can still remember things my parents said in passing when I was 8 or 10. I have said and done things to my kids that I am not proud of, and because of that I can be more forgiving of my parents.

72

Agree so much with the advice in post #37. Your dad is far from perfect, but you are seeing a pattern that you can leverage. He likes being needed and being the problem solver for others. You may be able to better engage him by bringing him an issue that needs solving. Do you need to find summer employment? Choose courses for next semester? Practice interviewing? Maybe if you bring him a “problem” it will be a way to open the door to relating on a deeper level.

That being said, I had a very emotionally absent parent, and I finally had enough and basically didn’t bother even trying to engage with her and was merely polite when our lives happened to intersect. Focusing on good relationships in my life made me so much happier. Ironically, later, she seemed more interested in engaging with me, but frankly I feel little and keep the relationship on the most superficial of levels.

73

“I am going to chime in to say that parents are BIG deal to kids. We may think what we say or do shouldn’t have that much impact on our kids, but we do. We may think our kids should just move on when we don’t give them the love they deserve, no they don’t. We can all tell ourselves that we shouldn’t let our parents define who we are, but we do. I see it in my kids all the time, especially my younger daughter. She likes to tell me it is her decision to make on everything in her life, but if I should just show a bit of disapproval she would take it to hears. I am over 50, and I can still remember things my parents said in passing when I was 8 or 10. I have said and done things to my kids that I am not proud of, and because of that I can be more forgiving of my parents”

@oldfort, I think you are so right. I hope to God that my kids don’t remember some of the things that I said to them in times of stress and rage (particularly when they were about two). It takes growing up, going through this all yourself, before you realize that your parents had so many problems and issues of their own, and that the things they said were more a reflection of their stress and fear, and not of you. Parents can be so wrong in their opinions about their children. They think a little comment is trivial, but the kid hears it as a harsh judgment that affects their self worth.

I am glad that I never took to heart some of the things my parents said. Particularly the comment that I was not coordinated enough to be a pilot! Fortunately being unskilled at games involving a ball has nothing to do with aviation. :smiley:

74

Yea, I was finally able to shake my dad’s opinion that law was “unfeminine” and women lawyers are not all that desirable. I am glad I became an attorney and it has been very useful. My dad was never all that good with family time and I never spent time with just him and my mom until I was in college (of course, there were a lot of us in our family, so that was part of the issue).

It is easiest for folks to change THEMSELVES instead of trying to change others. Some of the suggestions of asking your dad for help in a project like those he likes to help others in sound plausible, or maybe an activity together like hiking (where there is NO cell service). I would really follow up with your student health counseling service as well to help you come up with strategies so YOU can be happier moving forward.

75

You really can’t change other people, but you can sometimes train them to act more the way you wish them to, by changing your actions. The idea of going on a hike is a good one, because your Dad will be stuck in the woods. You want to give him positive reinforcement for the time you do get with him.

I also think the idea of a letter is a good one. He may not be a good listener where you are involved, but he sounds like a caring person. Use I statement and talk about how you feel. Don’t sound like you are accusing him.

76

Just saw this on drive home from work and immediately thought of this thread. A billboard in front of a church that reads:

How does a child spell love? T-I-M-E

77

“How does a child spell love? T-I-M-E”

So true.

He’s not really into hiking now. We’ve tried going on a family weekend vacation a few years ago- we were in the same room, but phones and his laptop constantly interrupted (as in, every 5 minutes, there was yet another phone call with his friends about random b.s… it’s hard to have a meaningful conversation being interrupted literally every 5 minutes all day/all night). The nearby places to hike have phone service (he’s been there and texted/called the whole time too), and I can’t afford to take him to a remote island without phone service. It’s really more of a respect issue (he doesn’t respect family time at all, ever) than a location issue, but I’ll keep brainstorming cheap places without phone service that I could swing that might be an option to at least win the battle for time with my own father for a few minutes. Maybe there’s some tech detox resort that I haven’t heard of near enough for a quick roadtrip that involves camping and phone signal blocking… some kind of natural living solar powered camping resort maybe.

Maybe I can do the camping thing this once, spend an evening with him to say we did and have some meaningful memory with him, then go to back to normal life without him.

My school isn’t going to offer me free counseling, I’m not a normal full-time on-campus student, so it’s not available. I’ll keep the counseling idea in mind if I can afford it sometime down the road.

I’ll never make my kids be second fiddle to my friends their whole lives, that’s for sure. I shouldn’t have to fight for attention and feel disregarded and disrespected non-stop with any friend’s issue anytime coming before our very rare opportunity family every time, no kid should feel that way. I shouldn’t and his wife shouldn’t have to fly him to Zimbabwe on a vacation to get some quality time, all the while knowing he would spend time or call his friends over family time even in Zimbabwe if he could. My kids never, ever will feel that way. They’ll probably feel suffocated by my devout attention. :smiley:

Having some easy “problem” would probably be a way to get him to focus on me for more than 5 minutes, that could work. That’s a good idea. Then after whatever was resolved, I’d be back to squire one and not really know each other still- and have to repeat over and over by coming up with more easy fix problems to spend a little time with my own father. That could work, might be worth a try at least once, for the memory if nothing else. I’m beginning to wonder if it’s even worth it. I’m so over this.

78

“I’m beginning to wonder if it’s even worth it. I’m so over this.”
I think that if you continue to try and get his attention, you will be spinning your wheels. You are trying to fix a problem that is in essence unfix-able.
I dont think its worth the emotional cost to you anymore.
Your Dad Is What he is.
The older someone gets- the harder it is to change, even when one WANTS to change.
He doesnt see the forest from the trees, and its time to stop trying to make him do so.
Move on with your life.
{{{{huggs}}}} to you!

79

This came across my facebook feed today and I thought it was interesting and made me think of this thread:
http://www.psychalive.org/what-is-your-attachment-style/

There is a quiz embedded in it to help one determine one’s attachment style:
http://www.web-research-design.net/cgi-bin/crq/crq.pl

80

I finally gave up at the idea of having a family.

My “father” and I clearly will never be friends, let alone family.

He’s never put his own family first a day in his life… why would he start now?

Some people weren’t cut out to be parents, and he definitely wasn’t. Shame since he makes such a good friend to his friends, overly good friend, and such a crumby absent-for-decades father that never puts family time first. Ever.

He’s not worth it. I tried, and it’s his loss. It’s he who will miss out on getting an active part in my future spouse’s life and mine, and my future kids lives. It’s his loss in missing out in getting regular access to his grandkids. I’m not going to let my kids around someone that puts family second fiddle to their family, would take them around his ex-con friends he’s trying to “help,” texts and drives, etc. I’ll have to schedule visits to see him and not leave my kids sight with him there-- when he lets his friends interrupt, my kids and I are out of there.

Maybe he actually realizes how royally he screwed up with his family, and that’s why he pretends his friends are his family. He even got one of his friends to call him “dad” and change his last name to his own. Creepy on so, so many levels in so many ways, especially when that “friend” of his has done nothing but use him (and the friend’s own actual parents who he lived with for over 20 years rent-free) for many years.

He’ll never be a father figure, and he’ll never have a real family. Never has, never will.

I’ll never, ever miss out on having my own family and my spending time with my own d**n kids regularly. My “father” is just an example of how not to be a “parent,” loosely defining the word parent when he literally never did one parent-like thing in his life, other than occasionally throw some income in the family bucket. He hasn’t done that in years either.

I’ll still visit my family, this “father” (biological, not by action) and tolerate him, trying to get by the d**n day every holiday, but that’s for the sake of the other people in my family-- not him.

Not my problem, and not my loss. Not anymore. It wouldn’t been nice to have an active parent, but… I didn’t, so I’ll just stop thinking of him as a father figure, since he never was. He missed out on having a family, but I won’t. Ever. My kids will have me active in their lives, and they’ll probably wish I wasn’t such an active parent. :smiley:

Yes, this is an angsty post, but if your “father” had put his friends first before his own family your own life, you’d be frustrated too. I just have to remind myself… it’s not worth it. He’s not worth it. Not anymore. He’ll miss out on having a child (me) and quality time with my spouse and his grandkids… sad, but not my problem. Not anymore.