<p>This sounds like a real bind; your whole family has my sympathies. Too bad the school is not good handling bullying. </p>
<p>Maybe there’s one good feature about confronting the father, if your family decides eventually to go that route: you can control the level of confrontation. I think that what frazzled did in a similar situation is really good: objectively describe the behavior without attacking the other child and then find a way to put the other parent on the spot in a way that makes it hard to refuse cooperation:</p>
<p>“I know I’d want to discuss this with junior if the shoe were on the other foot . . . and I hope you’ll deal with this with your son.” </p>
<p>If the dispassionate approach fails and the father seems really unreasonable, then maybe it’s time to move to the level of saying that you really hoped to handle this between families, but if the other father isn’t willing to do something there’s not much choice but to talk with the school authorities. The next level after that is actually bringing in the principal (acvina’s idea of a conference is great). . . and so on.</p>
<p>I know I already wrote this before, but I would not call the parents. Parents, justified or not, often defend their child. Does your school have a policy regarding bullying or harrassment? If so, the first step is to ask an administrator or guidance counselor what to do about a report of harrassment and bullying. What is the procedure and how can they help? They might call the child in to discuss. They might give out consequences. If the other parents need to get involved, let the school folks contact them as the school folks are the impartial party. If you contact the parents, it is like you vs. them unless you happen to get very understanding parents who want to work it out (this is chancy). Also, it happened at school. Start with the school. </p>
<p>I just took out our HS’s Student Handbook. There is an Anti-Harrassment Policy that breaks down into every type of harrassment (ie., religious/creed harrassment, sexual orientation harrassment, etc.) and bullying is one area in the policy with its own definition. Then it outlines “reporting” including voluntary and mandatory, as well as outlines privacy and retaliation. Students are asked to report it to guidance, teachers, or administrators. Adult employees are required to report it. Appropriate actions will be taken to those who retaliate against those who report. </p>
<p>It outlines where the reports go (to the administrator in charge of this). It discusses how reports will be investigated. It discusses actions will be taken as appropriate to ensure no further harrassment. It lists examples of possible actions that could be taken. It also lists who on staff are the ones who handle such complaints. </p>
<p>So, first find out if such a policy exists for your school. Go in and make the report and point to the policy and ask to be informed of the follow-up taken.</p>
<p>By the way, if this happened once or twice, that’s one thing but it appears to be an ongoing issue that is escalating and also is bothering your son who is seeking help of some kind.</p>
<p>To be honest with ya, your thread caught my attention because of an article in our local weekly paper. Like others here, I would agree that almost all young people have had to cope with some degree of bullying and most of us survived and learned to deal with it. However, some bullying is worse than others. As well, some students are better equipped emotionally to deal with it. But there are some (and who knows which kids these may be at that young age) who truly are deeply affected by bullying. For some kids, there are emotional scars. For some it might contribute to depression. Some high profile cases of kids who have gotten into trouble include a history of being bullied when younger. So, while normally I would say it is part of growing up and learning how to deal with such behaviors, I would also be cautious if this is an ongoing pattern that is worsening with another kid and adversely affecting your child where he is upset by it. I think the school needs to be aware and there hopefully is a policy in place for this reason. </p>
<p>But the article in my local community paper was written by a senior at our HS (who I happen to know) who is the high school correspondent writing about issues at the HS for the local paper. She reported about a speaker at a school assembly. The speaker’s topic was “bullying”. The speaker was a father from another part of VT who told the story of his son who started coming home in fifth grade telling his parents of bullying and his parents told him to ignore it. It persisted into sixth grade and his parents thought it was just part of growing up. It intensified in seventh grade into physical confrontation. Then his parents thought the bullying had subsided. Unbeknownst to his parents, for several months, the bullying moved to cyber bullying with vicious rumors about their son being spread by classmates via the internet. They discovered that after at age 13, he committed suicide. Obviously he suffered from depression as well. </p>
<p>Now, of course, the majority of kids who are bullied will not go down this horrific path. But the fact that some who have emotional problems or worse, commit suicide, had bullying as a CONTRIBUTING factor. Anyway, this parent now gives talks about bullying to schools around Vermont. </p>
<p>So, had I read your post before now, I might have taken it lightly as some others suggest. But ya know, who knows what this constant bullying is doing to your son and if it is escalating. Why should you risk it? Schools have policies in place for this very reason. Your son deserves an advocate and for the policy to go into effect and for investigation that may lead to appropriate disciplinary action with the other child involved. Bullying CAN be serious. Not always. But also each kid can handle it differently. The middle schools years can be tough with self esteem issues for certain kids, which this can exacerbate. Some kids may be deeply affected if it is constant, escalates, or they are emotionally fragile in any way. </p>
<p>I guess I will take the opportunity to spread this man’s message since he speaks on this topic due to his personal tragedy with his 13 year old son and a link was given to his son’s story: <a href=“http://www.ryanpatrickhalligan.com%5B/url%5D”>www.ryanpatrickhalligan.com</a></p>
<p>DKE: Your son wants this bullying to stop and doesn’t know how to make it stop by himself. It’s a tough situation. What are your options, really?</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Your son handles it through the stand-up-for-yourself method. Several ways this can go. A mom acquaintance of mine told me her older 14-year-old hs freshman son was being viciously teased about his weight by a girl on the bus. His response one day was to turn around and vicously tease her back (he had prepared). He picked on her braces, the way her speech was impaired by her braces, the clothes she was wearing, the way her hair looked that day. The other kids laughed at her this time; she ended up in tears. But the teasing stopped and nobody else bothered him again. Other parents I know have told their son, if that kid keeps bothering you, then fight him and he won’t do it anymore.<br>
If these options don’t fit for your kid or make you nervous (they would me) then there doesn’t seem to be much choice other than adult intervention or let the bully continue to tear down your son.</p></li>
<li><p>Intervene yourself (H visits bully’s father) and hope that will work. It might, particularly if you make it clear that your next step is to complain to the school administration about the harassment. For various reasons, most parents wouldn’t want a school administration to have evidence of a flaw in their child’s character and may tell junior to knock it off rather than have something negative go on his school record. </p></li>
<li><p>Have the school officials intervene on your behalf, either by speaking to the kid or to the kid’s parents. Insist on it. You are paying for that bus ride. You’re paying for your son’s school experience. You’re a paying customer with a legitimate beef. Sometimes I think that the reason that some school administrators are lame about this issue is that not enough parents call them on it and make the case that they have a responsibility to take action before the situation escalates into something uglier. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>I do believe in taking some kind of action rather than leaving it to the kids to work it out. My younger son as a hs freshman was being harassed by a bigger kid, who used to be a friend, who on several occasions in PE came up behind him and grabbed him in a police-style choke hold and squeezed hard enough to make my son fall to the ground. S did not want me to complain to the school or talk to the kid’s parents. Too bad. I called the asst principal and told him it was unacceptable for this to be happening in a school situation where there was supposed to be adult supervision. AP called other kid in and told him there would be consequences if it happened again. It did not happen again. </p>
<p>And to agree with sax, I will add that by soph year, my S had bulked up over the summer through rowing camp and weightlifting and when I asked him if that kid ever bothered him now, he said, “No, he’s kinda scared of me now because I’m a lot stronger than he is this year.”</p>
<p>Suggestion: See if there’s a Wing Chun school in your area. If so, enroll your son. This style of martial art will boost his confidence and give him the skills to deflect (and, if necessary, defend himself) even against a bully who is much larger and stronger and has a black belt in karate.</p>
<p>THanks so much for your very thoughtful and helpful suggestions. I’m going to print this thread out and discuss it with H. I think I’m as upset about it as our son is. Its really got me going!! Must be those strong maternal instincts. I feel like a protective tigress! I’ll let you know what happenned if that’s ok.</p>
<p>There is little worse than to known as a mama’s boy among your peers. Better to teach him to assert himself unless this bully is 6’2" and crazy. The idea to learn some martial arts is very good. Most bully’s don’t stand up well to being confronted and even if the kid ends up with a shiner he will earn the respect of the bully and his peers forever.</p>
<p>Barrons, I truly believe in asserting yourself with a bully and telling them to stop. However, the fact that a physical confrontation is possible (as you also imply) could result in the victim getting into disciplinary trouble as well. That doesn’t solve the problem. In such a case, the administrators are not going to care who “started it”. </p>
<p>I would try to equip a kid with strategies for handling it. But all kids are different. Some may be emotionally fragile and this is adversely affecting them and they are seeking help. That help may involve coaching him how to deal with it but the person who is bullying should not get off the hook. There are policies and even laws about harrassment. Many schools have such policies and discipline comes under that. If need be, as with anything else that is troubling a student in school, an advocate may need to step in and assist to deal with the problem.</p>
<p>Barrons, let me ask you…you refer to a “mama’s boy”. So, what is your advice if a girl is being bullied? I’m just wondering.</p>
<p>Mean girls is a relatively new problem–at least to the extent today. They use verbal abuse and social sanctions much more effectively than the physical intimidation of boys. I have no answers for that but most of the turf they are protecting is not worth that much.<br>
As to risking getting a little discipline for standing up for yourself–a couple days of detention might be well spent and hardly is the end of the world.</p>
<p>"However, the fact that a physical confrontation is possible (as you also imply) could result in the victim getting into disciplinary trouble as well. That doesn’t solve the problem. In such a case, the administrators are not going to care who “started it”. "</p>
<p>Having raised the “fightin Validictorian” I disagree. From junior high to graduation he served 4 separate weeks suspension for defending himself when attacked by mulitiple groups of kids. Having spent the first couple of assualts turning the other cheek (which was blackened pretty good) we had enough. He was told to defend himself, which he did and the bullies moved on to someone else. He doesn’t know any boxing or martial arts, but he knows “crazy” and held his own. </p>
<p>Let the school know what is happening. As long as it is verbal, he has to try to ignore it. Let the school know if it progresses to physical abuse, your child will defend himself and you will support the school’s choice to suspend both fighters. Schools do punish both as policy, but also recognize who starts vs. who responds. </p>
<p>I would also explain to your child that fighting back, even if you lose is far better than taking a beating. If you fight back, most bullies will move on, as there are far more “bulliable (sp)” kids out there. Take your lumps, but get yours too. One thing to be aware of though, it is never one kid to fight, usually it’s two or three.</p>
<p>I wasn’t talking of mean girls and it is interesting that you jumped to that. I was talking about if the victim of harrassment and bullying is a girl. A girl can be bullied by boys too. So, how does the “mama’s boy” work into that situation? Should she also get into a brawl to settle things? Is seeking assistance as per a harrassment/bullying policy not an avenue for a solution?</p>
<p>dke:
I feel for you and your son, we have also been through this. Kids can not always handle it on their own. There is nothing wrong with asking for help.</p>
<p>Our public school does not allow fighting and all parties would be punished if fighting occurs, even if one party is just responding to a bully. Also, children who harass others on the bus can lose their bus privileges. That gets the attention of the bully’s parents!</p>
<p>When my son was teased in 6th grade, he did allow me to talk to the guidance counselor. The teasing stopped very quickly and my son ended up having a real ally in the GC for his 3 years in middle school.</p>
<p>Barrons:
In some cases, for some kids, you may have a point. I suspect that for my younger son, something happened between the two boys — a wrestling/punching-on-the-shoulder type mix up — that made my son believe that he no longer had to worry about the other kid jumping and choking him. But I don’t think it’s the solution for every kid and it doesn’t make someone a “mama’s boy” if adults intervene to tell a bully that his/her behavior is not allowed. </p>
<p>For example, my older son’s friend when he was 13 was being mercilessly teased for his appearance — his pudge, his too-short European looking shorts (they were not native Americans), his unstylishly too-short haircut. hair. Every day was a misery at lunch. His mother told him to complain to the principal or she would. So he did and the bullies were told to stop or else. This boy was not a fighter, at all, and did not have the “mean bone” in his body that would let him turn around and go nasty verbally to the kids tormenting him. So should he have simply endured that abuse day after day after day? I don’t think so. Adults have a responsibility to enforce appropriate standards of behavior, particularly on school grounds and he had every right to go to the adults to seek action on his behalf. </p>
<p>I don’t want to make too big a deal out of words like, don’t be a “mama’s boy,” but don’t you think that taken to the extreme, this fight-back mentality leads to the Columbines and the other school shootings that have taken place?</p>
<p>How about your husband and son inviting the other boy and his dad out for breakfast with them…and discuss the situation there? ie rivalry…long term friendships…and try to reestablish the good in their friendship? </p>
<p>the other thing is to check with the bus driver…maybe the bus driver can be enlisted to assist in fostering a better, healthier environment on the bus?</p>
<p>Anything taken to extreme yields extreme results. Fortunately out of 1,000,000 school altercations you might have one serious incident. The Columbine kids were a group that was alientated from school and the kids there–they were not interested in fitting in. The school cannot be there every minute to monitor the kids and there is always before and after school. Most bullies I knew were from somewaht troubled homes and enjoyed the attention of getting disciplined etc.</p>
<p>What we’re dealing with isn’t anything physical, its shouting out curses at him from the bus in front of everyone, and starting rumors and gossip…very sneaky so hard to confront. S wants to, though, so I’ll see if he does that this week before H gives the kid’s father a call. To call the school first would be weird because we’ve known this family forever.</p>
<p>If the parent does decide to go to the administration my suggestion would be to put everything in writing. Additionally after any meeting they should write up a summary of the meeting and also mail this to all the people involved asking them to affirm steps decided in the meeting. This puts the school on notice that you are serious and they will have to do something about the problem. Schools are very concerned about litigation and with things in writing they will have to act. Keep a record of who you talked to, when, and who was present at meetings. You could always show up with an attorney or/ask to tape record the meeting. </p>
<p>I’d like to add that for boys in middle school and the first few years of high school being physically fit is one of the few positive ways to gain respect from the male “pack”. Working out and getting into shape will teach your son many lessons. It leads to increased self esteem which will make it easier to look bullies in the eye and tell them to back off. It will make him less of a target becuase the bully will sense you are no longer easily bothered by him. The work and resulting change in his body will show him that he has the power to change things, to make a difference in his own life. It’s visible and empowering. It is also a terrific way to take the anger of the day and use it to propel himself forward in a positive way. Great life lessons in general. </p>
<p>This certainly is not an immediate answer if your son is coming to you to ask for help with the bully. He expects that as parents you can fix it; however the reality might not be so cut and dry. So make sure you go into this having looked at all the possible outcomes. </p>
<p>My friends’ son was beaten up on the bus by a known bully.The school made promises but didn’t follow through.Concerned with her sons safety my friend called the police and asked that the child be charged with assault. The police were angry they were involved and charged both kids with assault. Hundreds of dollars later, time off from work, attorneys hired, both kids ended up with “juvenile records.” Not the life lesson she wanted her son to learn who really was a victim.</p>
<p>As far as being a “mama’s boy” S tells us everything which is wonderful because we know so much more than other parents as far as what’s going on with the kids…who’s smoking pot, meeting for make-outs, bullying, cheating,cutting, drinking, fist fights, etc. We want S to know that he can confide in us. I rarely act on what he tells us because I don’t want to betray his confidence. I had to when a girl was about to meet someone at a movie that she met on the internet. That’s the one time I felt I had to.</p>
<p>I would agree that at this age and in the case of verbal bullying/teasing, adult intervention (preferably by the school) is the best. Many verbal bullies at this age are not looking for a physical confrontation so why do anything to escalate it to that level? </p>
<p>When my son was in elementary and middle school, he also went through a great deal of verbal teasing especially on the school bus. However, in his case he has mild Aspergers and was not able to pick up on social cues or react in a way that might have helped him deal with this on his own (as is typical with AS or autistic kids, he usually got angry - and this was exactly why the other kids usually egged him on, because they knew what buttons to push in order to get a “rise” out of him). He also never told me about it and I only learned of it when he was written up for losing his temper with the bus driver who did nothing to stop the other kids (this was the day when he got a bottle of water dumped on his head). School intervention quickly put an end to the teasing - before it escalated to more physical confrontations as could easily have happened. And he was never called a “mama’s boy.” I think sometimes kids just need to be called on the carpet by adults in order to stop some of this kind of behavior from continuing.</p>
<p>And of course there is different kinds and degrees of bullying and different solutions depending on the situation, but in this day and age, who can predict when (or why) it will escalate to something even worse than a schoolyard brawl? Fortunately, my S has never been involved in any physical fights although we had a much worse scare when he was in middle school; I was notified by his school one day at work that his name had appeared on a “hit” list of another student that fortunately had made its way into the hands of a teacher. That student was immediately removed from school; he apparently had some serious emotional issues and never did return. The school had received a bomb threat not too long before this so everyone took this very seriously and apparently with good reason. Right in the middle of safe suburbia–who would have guessed? </p>
<p>Perhaps as a result of my own experiences, all I can say is that I am not comfortable with the idea of expecting young people to deal with any kind of bullying on their own especially if they feel threatened or uncomfortable in doing so.</p>
<p>Sax, that is a terrible story about how the police handled it!! I can’t believe it but I’m sure its true. Awful.!! Good advice for all of us actually about having things in writing at a meeting, or tape recorded. As far as our son’s stature goes, he’s lettered in one sport and on two other teams. Quite a jock, and smart too! (ok, ok, I’m proud, sorry!) He takes a workout class weekly as well. The boy who’s bugging him is not very athletic, not very academic and about three inches shorter! Quite the pipsqueak…maybe its Napoleonic! But ironically, he’s the Leader of the Cool guys. You know the drill. We’ve all been there.</p>