<p>One should remember that when applying “your” values or “standard” values to a situation doesn’t mean the other side will do the same. That was one of my first questions with the vice principal when we dealt with this the first time. You can be all reasonable and respectful and get your ass kicked. It is an assumption we all make about someone else…they have the same value system we have… we stopped making that mistake. </p>
<p>the advice about exercise and the weight room is excellent and spot on. I highly reccommend fitness for both boys and girls, it does wonders mentally along with the fitness side of things.</p>
<p>My daughter was badly bullied by a big girl in 7th grade. This girl was a head taller than she was and was from the ‘tough’ part of town. One day when I went to pick my D up, she came to the car, gave me her glasses, and said, “wait for me, mom, I have to fight Tiffany” She explained that she could no longer take it, and had told the girl that day to meet her after school to finish this once and for all. I have never been so proud as I was that day, sitting in my car and watching her wait by the side of the school as the sun set lower and lower. Tiffany never showed up. The next day, she said to my D “where were you—I waited for you” and my D was able to say “Oh, no you didn’t, I was there for all afternoon waiting for you—and everyone saw me” That girl never bothered her again. My D (now 21) and I recently talked about that whole incident, and she told me how scared she was that day, standing there alone. She told me that her plan all along was that if Tiffany didn’t show up, she’d win, and if Tiffany did show up and beat her up, Tiffany would get suspended and she’d win. LOL! I guess the bullying was easy as long as my D wasn’t challenging that girl, but she showed herself as a true coward pretty quickly when my D stood up to her. Good luck with this situation. It’s a really sticky one, and it seems to have no good answers. Ours worked out well, but I guess my D could just as easily been beaten up that day.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t let it go. I would never want my kids to feel hopeless in an unpleasant situation. I’d want them to know that no matter what I’m on their side.</p>
<p>That said, my daughter was the victim of hideous harassment and bullying a couple of years ago because of her race. It was so bad that we ultimately changed her school.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t encourage a physical confrontation. What if the bully had friends willing to step in and realy hurt the other child? Too many unknowns.</p>
<p>“I wouldn’t encourage a physical confrontation. What if the bully had friends willing to step in and realy hurt the other child? Too many unknowns”</p>
<p>They usually do nowdays, no point in being a bully in private. We dealt with this a few years back and the unknowns were what made us decide to say “screw it, they may kick your ass, but get your licks in”.</p>
<p>You see my S was beaten by three boys for the mile walk home with a crowd egging on more and more. They picked up garbage cans and lids and smacked him around, they spit on him, tripped him and shoved and hit him and my kid just kept walking. We talked to the school and since it was off property nothing they could do. A couple days later we found our S under the table to scared to come out. These boys just bullied the hell out of him. At that point we had enough and told him to no longer “turn the other cheek” cause he was kicked punched in both. We let the school know as well that in the future he would defend himself and we would accept suspension if it occurred.</p>
<p>I had a long talk with him and said here’s the choices… this can go on for a long time or the next time it happens defend yourself, get yours, no matter if they still beat you up, get some back cause right now they’re just beating you and you’re taking it without anything in return. </p>
<p>Next day I get a call from school after hours. He’s in the office it seems they jumped him again and he got his, broke one kid’s nose, knocked some teeth out of another and the last one ran off. Alot of pent up anger. I came in, we took our week suspension, the other three got a month (as this was not their “only” time in trouble) even though they complained at the suspension hearing that they were the one’s that got hurt. To which we replied, it was your choice to fight not his. You can’t complain about the results just cause they weren’t what you expected. They never bothered him again.</p>
<p>I think you have to at some point decide if it’s worth taking it or not. Again you have to live with the results.</p>
<p>Freshman year at college, S had a very drunk,very hostile football player threaten to beat him up at a party. My S looked up at him in the eye and simply said " you are around 6 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier than me, and you should be able to kick my ass… Let me ask you is it worth losing an eye? You may get the best of me, but I’ll get some of you…" the footballer looked at him for a second, smiled held his hand out and told him he was “crazy” and left him alone. I mean why risk losing an eye?</p>
<p>Opie:
This is a very exciting story but only works if the kid is willing to go all the way. My kids would probably rather find another solution, even though I’m sure that we all have a line that shouldn’t be crossed, without dire consequences.
I did sock a boyfriend so hard that it knocked him over and he got a black eye. He definitely deserved it.</p>
<p>Our school is very much a “no hitting” place and they would be willing to get involved, even if a situation occurred outside of school, so that kids shouldn’t have to hit back. My experience has been that they are very pro-active.</p>
<p>“Opie:
This is a very exciting story but only works if the kid is willing to go all the way. My kids would probably rather find another solution, even though I’m sure that we all have a line that shouldn’t be crossed, without dire consequences”</p>
<p>here’s the thing to understand… what if the other side doesn’t share your values about conflict? What if your kids can’t find a solution because the other person doesn;t want one? Going to jail doesn’t scare everybody, just those with something to lose. </p>
<p>We sounded EXACTLY alike until placed in the situation where it was getting worse and worse. I totally understand where you’re coming from as we tried it ourselves for a long while. The thing we learned was things can get to a point where you may have to abandon your fairness beliefs and get in the gutter too. Sometimes the only thing a certain person might understand is a like reaction. Every family has a different value system in play. Sometimes you just simply have to do what you have to do. </p>
<p>Our district was proactive in the sense that they tried everyday with around a 120 kids (out of 800) to turn them around. Districts can’t necessarily fix a problem that home life creates. </p>
<p>I do agree with you that you exhaust every reasonable means necessary first but you also must be willing to take a stand at a certain point.</p>
<p>dke…so it’s the little smart a$$ punk that’s the bully. One in every school. I think I’d focus more on your sons reaction to this than anything else though. Why is he letting this kid bother him so much? Why is he giving this kid so much power over his feelings. If he can get a handle on this then he will feel empowered the next time something happens. And it will.</p>
<p>When my son was little and would have an arguement with his friend I would always say "well, what happened? Did you do something to hurt his feelings? Later, I was at a friends house and his son came up to him after a fight with his friend and the Dad said “well, who needs him. Go play with somebody else.” And that’s when the lightbulb came on in my head. Indeed…move on. Go play with somebody else.</p>
<p>And opie I agree with a lot of what you say. Much of it is guy stuff which only another guy can really help you in dealing with it.</p>
<p>Opie:
I do get it. I understand that sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. I’m just not sure my sons, particularly my gentle eldest would be willing to.</p>
<p>On the other hand, my daughter, the goalie, has no problem getting up in somebody else’s face! She and I are the family “enforcers”. :)</p>
<p>Sax, I guess my son gives this kid so much influence on him because they grew up together and were always sort of quasi-friends. This cool kid sort of decides who’s cool and who’s not, and dictates to all the others who’s worthy of associating with. The good thing that’s come out of this is that S now knows that he’s a creep, and is looking outside of his old circle of acquaintances to kids that he’d previously overlooked. The kind of peripheral boys who just aren’t high profile types, nice kids. Incredible the hold that certain personalities can have on others at this age. Live and learn, I guess.</p>
<p>Well, dke, it is probably a blessing in disguise. In my neck of the woods these are the kids who have already started drinking and partying and will be the hard partiers in H.S… Your son was probably outgrowing them anyway and its good to hear he is already looking about for other friends. Classes in H.S. and his sports will determine his good friends those four years. </p>
<p>The BOE for our town in NNJ started an anti-bullying program to inform and instruct administrators, teachers, teacher aides, students and parents about anti-bullying. Now, there is a zero-tolerance for bullying in all elementary, middle and high schools in town.</p>
<p>Talk to your teacher, principal and superintendant about anti-bullying.</p>
<p>“Opie, we’ve had a couple of cases in the NYC area where bullies beat kids into a coma or other very serious injuries. I would never risk that.”</p>
<p>Zoos, what if your child doesn’t have a choice? I’m sure the bullies you mentioned didn’t stop when the victim decided not to defend themselves? </p>
<p>As I said not everyone is afraid of jail time and not everyone quits when you don’t fightback. However the odds increase in your favor when you defend yourself. At least you go down fighting. Think about what you would advise a girl in a rape situation. As rape is an act of violence, would you say lie there and take it? I would hope my D would fight as long as she could, rip that thing off or gouge out an eye. </p>
<p>As I stated eariler in my kids case, these three beat him for close to a mile. Mine kept walking home, didn’t defend himself, didn’t try to fight back and they didn’t stop beating on him until they got near their own homes. We turned the other cheek, which was great advice as long as the other person beating on you, is religous enough to recognize the gospell’s advice and follow it. However, that wouldn’t explain the bully behavor now would it? :)</p>
<p>When the others just beat on you and beat on you, you have to make a choice. Sure as a dad you feel better about it when your kid stands up for himslef and defends himself against physical agressors and more than holds his own. But we also talk about using physical strength wisely, never start a conflict, walk away while you can, which I think is the basis for most martial arts training. </p>
<p>And for spinner, even your gentle eldest may simply not have a choice someday. It is something to talk about, if it were to happen. One reason mine let himself get beaten up for a mile was his promise to us not to fight with other kids. His nickname is “literal boy” and allowing yourself to get beaten on for a mile fits the literal description of not fighting, so he thought he was following his parents wishes. We had to clarify the “if” situations…</p>
<p>I agree with you that we should all be prepared to protect ourselves. In high school, S#1 took several years of Aikido. Although it is designed more for defense, it is a martial art.</p>
<p>“agree with you that we should all be prepared to protect ourselves. In high school, S#1 took several years of Aikido. Although it is designed more for defense, it is a martial art.”</p>
<p>Yes, it is about defending one’s self. It’s not about being an agressor, unless you absolutely have to.</p>
<p>Bully update: We ignored it, my son stayed cool about it and its escalated to the point of 8 kids getting physical (with basketballs) with my son. They even paid younger kids to get in on the action! Talk about predatory. I have an appointment with the principal for tomorrow a.m. and called the ass’t principal tonight. Some things don’t get better with time!</p>
<p>“Bully update: We ignored it, my son stayed cool about it and its escalated to the point of 8 kids getting physical (with basketballs) with my son.”</p>
<p>I’m sorry to hear that. </p>
<p>However, it’s what I expected to happen. Those who prey look for the easiest victims. Your family or my family’s value system does not transfer to other kids. This is the mistake we’ve made in the past. The bullying stopped when mine fought back. As I said even if he lost, the fact that he would defend himself when pressed Will make them go elsewhere for their sport of picking on kids. I know it’s hard to tell you kid something like that, but is it easier to watch them get beaten on and humilated? </p>
<p>I will bet you these kids are well known to the administration. Good luck.</p>
<p>I know my advice sounds terrible, but even if he loses by fighting back, he wins some self respect. Bullies avoid those who will fight back, it’s the basic risk of losing to prey that makes them avoid kids who’ll fight back.</p>