<p>Be sure to note (to the principal) the escalation in bullying over time. Cite your expectation that the school will will provide whatever supervision is necessary to ensure that your S stays safe physically and can study in an environment free of harrassment. One more incident is too many!</p>
<p>I’m hoping your school came through for your son in your meeting today. Eight kids ganging up with payments to younger participants doesn’t exactly sound harmless – not hijinks that got out of hand but a planned attack on your kid. I would want to see the organizer(s) suspended or gone. Does your district have some sort of written policy on bullying or physical intimidation of individuals by groups?</p>
<p>On the phone, the asst. principal asked me what he should do because he didn’t know! (private school…we’re paying for this privilege!) I told him expulsion for the ringleader sounds like a good idea. My son’s not the only one this has happenned to and he keeps getting chances.</p>
<p>Thanks, CC’ers for all of your support and advice. I truly am more upset about this than my son is. He’s being a really good sport about it. If he did fight back, Opie, he’d get punished BIG TIME because that’s the way the culture of this particular school works and yes, we’re thinking of moving him for next year. I’ll let you know what happens.</p>
<p>“If he did fight back, Opie, he’d get punished BIG TIME because that’s the way the culture of this particular school works and yes, we’re thinking of moving him for next year.”</p>
<p>You have to learn that really isn’t a big deal compared to the big picture.</p>
<p>Tell the school in advance your child will defend himself the next time this happens. Between 6th and 12th grade mine was suspended for defending himself three times. Three weeks suspension, He still was class Val and #1 out of 650. The school board down knew about his fights, but they also knew he NEVER started one and only had them if he was physically assaulted. </p>
<p>Fighting is always a big deal in schools, but even though the punishments are fairly equal, the administration knows the score. They just can’t take a public position supporting any type of fighting. </p>
<p>After what we went through early (similar to your child) we simply, plainly without emotion relayed to the school district that will accept any suspension the district felt appropriate for self defense. </p>
<p>You cannot expect other people (even from so called good homes) to share your values system. Bullies don’t change because somebody talks to them about it, they just move on to somebody else when one prey fights back.</p>
<p>When I told my son to defend himself, I knew he would be fighting against more than one assailant. He might lose. I had to face that as a possibility. I gave him some advice about fights with multiple opponents from my past experiences and just said “don’t give up” and don’t go down. Even if he lost, they would leave him alone. There are just too many others out there that won’t fight back.</p>
<p>He also learned the weight room is his friend. Bullies prey on those they perceive as weak or different. They shy away from those who could return the beating. You can be very smart and very fit. I would suggest your son finds something to improve his physical well being along with improving his mind. </p>
<p>To make this situation different, change has to come from your side. You cannot change the other side, no matter what you’re lead to believe as the right thing.</p>
<p>One thing to add. I know that many men who were bullied as boys never ever forget how they dealt with it. The guys who didn’t fight feel kind of embarassed - unless they are the super-intellectual tech types who feel so superior intellectually that they think of the bullies as true morons. The guys who did fight back, or who won by sheer cleverness and getting the bullies to back down without getting physical, they are always proud of what they did. I don’t know why exactly, although I can invent many theories, but it seems that for boys and men their capacity to fight if they have to, to smack the bad guy where necessary, is very close to their core identities.</p>
<p>DKE, good luck to your boy. I would however think somewhat about how he will feel about this event looking back on it as a man. As with all difficult parenting issues, solving a present problem if it creates a future problem is not optimal. Sounds like his physical stature isn’t the issue as it is for some boys. Is there any way he could stand up to this kid without punching him out?</p>
<p>dke-- I’m curious – has this boy received any consequences at all for his actions – such as in school suspension, out of school suspension, told to get counseling in order to stay in school? Saturday school?</p>
<p>This boy was suspended for bullying a year ago. He obviously didn’t learn much. We don’t condone violence of any kind and will never encourage S to duke it out. Never. We spoke to the powers that be and looks like expulsion is coming. So be it. He’s predatory and needs to go.</p>
<p>
I would take Opie’s advice. Dke, I know it’s presumptuous of me to question your “no violence under any circumstance” stand. But I’m just thinking that this could result in a very serious injury to your son, if not from this boy, then from another. If word is out that your son won’t fight back, the bullies will swarm like sharks around blood.</p>
<p>I remember my parents taking the same rigid non-violence stand. My older brother got beat up quite often, as two kids held him & another did the punching. He eventually learned that mom & dad’s principles could get him killed. He’s now 6’5" and a weight-lifter. The last time someone bothered him (knife-wielding thugs,) he picked up a NYC police barricade & swung it. They ran. He’s still alive.</p>
<p>and SS and I agree on so little, so the stars must have alined on this one. :)</p>
<p>Sometimes doing what you think is best for all the moral reasons in the world matters little if the other side doesn’t share them. How we’ve dealt with the situations wasn’t our first choice either, but after a while, it became the best bad choice among alot of bad choices. </p>
<p>Good luck and I hope it works out for you one way or another.</p>
<p>Okay, and what if you have a non-violent muscian, short, non-athletic son who IS basically wimpy? Is he also supposed to fight back and no question get the short end of the stick? My son, also 13, has defended himself and gotten detention but due to his apparent geek/nerdiness will probably always be picked on. It’s frustrating as a parent to not step in.</p>
<p>If your kid will grow up to be a man who will always stay on that side of the line, i.e., no, I couldn’t take him and it would be stupid to try, then I think you just nurture what he has and how he is and go ahead and involve him in your resolution and model for him how to use words and reason and where necessary non-physical threats to get this little justice.</p>
<p>Let’s say my son slugged this kid. Sure, the bully would move on to another. That solves things? I don’t think so. The bully learns nothing, hassles another kid, and the cycle continues. If he’s expelled, maybe he’ll learn that violence is not the answer, and his parents may even be inclined to get him the professional help that he so obviously needs. He’s troubled. My son has never been a bully target, ever. This is a personal thing that’s gotten out of hand between them. The school (supposedly) won’t tolerance physical violence. There’s no reason for a student of that disposition to be in the school. If someone came up and slugged you, and you slugged him back what exactly does that prove?Nothing…and now you both know how to assault people. That’s lovely.</p>
<p>I know of one boy who assaulted another child in hs. There were a number of others who witnessed the incident. The student was involved in special education. He was expelled, a lawyer was hired by the parents, and the punishment went quickly from expulsion, to suspension, to a “few personal days off” (not suspension) to explore his issues with a mental health specialist. I have this information from some of his peers, who could not believe this and felt was an unfair punishment. This is a public school, and this young man apparently was expelled from a different school before his hs years (he apparently told some of his friends that he had been expelled before). This child stayed in the school and has graduated, but not without breaking other “school rules”. Administration simply ignored the regular infractions, but they were not violent ones. An example of one infraction was leaving school grounds without permission in the middle of the school day.</p>
<p>dke, if someone came up and slugged you & you DIDN’T slug him back, he would continue to pummel you & you might be beaten to death. What does that solve?</p>
<p>I’ve seen bullies learn to back off when they are challenged. The cycle can be broken if enough brave people stand their ground. That’s a form of learning. </p>
<p>I hope it works out & hope your son never is mugged or jumped or assaulted in any way that requires self-defense for survival.</p>
<p>If you’re a mom, you’re going to roll your eyes at this solution, but i promise you from personal experience that it works. next time your son is getting bullied tell him to do the following</p>
<p>Step 1: warn the bully to leave him alone
(if nothing happens)
Step 2: Sternly and aggressively warn the bully to leave him alone
(if nothing happens)
Step 3: get in his face, maybe give him a light shove
Step 4: If attacked, fight back</p>
<p>He may very well either lose or kind of lose, but he’ll instantly gain the respect of the bully and his friends. In addition, the school will warn the bully that if he gets in anymore fights he’ll be in serious trouble, so the bully will choose a new target that is guaranteed not to fight back and get him in more trouble.</p>
<p>I put up with bullying throughout HS by the same guy, and i did what I posted at the start of 11th grade, and I didnt hear from the bully since. I actually tied the bully in the fight before it was broken up, and talked the school down from a suspension to a saturday detention (EVERYONE of my friends testified that this guy had instigated it and was trash). It didnt show up on my record or anything for college apps, and the school told the bully if he misbehaved anymore, he’d be kicked out. he moved on to someone else, and half a year later, was indeed kicked out.</p>
<p>I don’t know if this would be helpful or not…</p>
<p>A few years ago my neighbor’s son was being bullied by a boy two years older, who sometimes got his friends to join in as well. Over times things escalated and eventually things became physical and obviously my younger neighbor was not strong enough to defend himself effectively.</p>
<p>After the first time it happened, the boy and his family gave the kid a serious warning. The second time it happened, the boy and his parents got the police involved–they took him straight to the police station, he told his story, and charges were filed. The bully beat him up one more time because of his having filed charges–half an hour later, the police picked him up, took him to the county lock up instead of our little neighborhood police station, and he learned a lesson the hard way–4 consecutive weekends in a youth center , required counseling sessions 4 afternoons a week for 6 months, and no license until his 18th birthday. A restraining order also was issued. His parents were not happy with the hits to his, and their , reputation, nor were they happy about the attorneys’ bills.</p>
<p>This isn’t a happy path to follow but sometimes it’s necessary.</p>
<p>Stickershock, you’re talking to a woman who lived alone in New York City for 15 years. I’m not some babe in the woods. I’ve been around the block quite a few times. I was mugged by a group of 5 men and if I fought back the cop said that I would have been shot. In fact, the cop disapproved of the fact that I asked for my belongings back because I had my glasses there in my purse. (they took my wallet). You’re talking about vigilanteism and I don’t buy it.</p>
<p>Boysx3, two of my friends here with kids in the school think we definitely should have called the police. I didn’t want to take that route but I can see why they would. Assault is assault whether you’re 13 or 80.</p>
<p>dke…this is distressing. What if you and H and S devise a counter-attack method? Implement a counter attack over a month and if that doesn’t work–then go to Plan B–call the principal or parents.</p>
<p>I have found that bullies can be easily diffused with a sharp counter attack. the number one thing to keep in mind is:</p>
<p>The bully is getting his jollies because he is getting the desired response. The target cares what the bully says.</p>
<p>In my experience, the best way to diffuse a bully is to:</p>
<p>1) Practice not caring–or second best–practice ‘pretending’ not to care. The inner mantra should be : “I don’t care what you say.” You and H could ‘practice’ curse at son and say horrible bully things so son gets used to hearing those things. Take away the shock value. Talk about why your son cares what this idiot says–help him to feel the power of ‘not caring’.</p>
<p>2) Then, your family should devise clever responses/retorts that will throw the bully off balance. </p>
<p>3) Then, you should practice a few different scenarios of what is likely to happen when those retorts are given so that whateer happens, your son is on the ready.</p>
<p>4) Finally, S should choose time to implement his counter attack. </p>
<p>I suggest that the bully will be easily humiliated and he will quickly give up. </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>