What to do about bullying?

Parent Cafe
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<p>“Let’s say my son slugged this kid. Sure, the bully would move on to another. That solves things? I don’t think so. The bully learns nothing, hassles another kid, and the cycle continues. If he’s expelled, maybe he’ll learn that violence is not the answer, and his parents may even be inclined to get him the professional help that he so obviously needs. He’s troubled. My son has never been a bully target, ever. This is a personal thing that’s gotten out of hand between them. The school (supposedly) won’t tolerance physical violence. There’s no reason for a student of that disposition to be in the school. If someone came up and slugged you, and you slugged him back what exactly does that prove?Nothing…and now you both know how to assault people. That’s lovely.”</p>

<p>Again you’re just applying your values to the situation and wondering how to fix it. You can’t? This isn’t the first bully that ever existed or the last. Do you think you are the first person to think this way? Do you think I didn’t think of this at all? </p>

<p>No it isn’t lovely, it how life plays out. I have just been through this process before you that’s all. My kid’s getting ready for medschool, not HS. </p>

<p>I felt the same way you did, that’s the problem, it’s not what you or I think, it’s what will the other guy respond to? Trying to fix kids that in a few years will be imprisoned and/or completely out of school is something that alot of people can’t fix right now. Your text expects some sort of change to overtake the bully… it doesn’t work that way. I know you’d like it to, but it hasn’t since Cain n’ Able and isn’t going to change for 1000 more years. </p>

<p>Good luck, I think you’ll be befuddled by this again and again.</p>

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<p>

HUH??? I’m talking about no such thing. If a group of eight boys are using physical violence against your son, defending himself is simply that — self-defense. Not vigilanteism. How absurd to call it that! </p>

<p>I’m now wondering why you asked for help on a message board if you are intent upon criticizing reasonable suggestions. Whatever…</p>

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<p>“Okay, and what if you have a non-violent muscian, short, non-athletic son who IS basically wimpy? Is he also supposed to fight back and no question get the short end of the stick?”</p>

<p>Is he not going to get the short end anyway? Fighting back at least lets the bullies know he won’t just roll over and take it. What if this was a rape and it was your daughter? Would you not want her to try? Bullies and rapists are just people of violence and prey on those who submit to it. </p>

<p>“My son, also 13, has defended himself and gotten detention but due to his apparent geek/nerdiness will probably always be picked on. It’s frustrating as a parent to not step in.”</p>

<p>No I will bet you that as word gets around that he defends himself, he’ll be left alone. Bullies do move on, it’s much easier to hurt those willing to be hurt. I shared your frustration and had to figure out to what level I would step in. I backed my kid and backed the school policy at the same time. It’s a matter of how you go about it.</p>

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<p>“I was mugged by a group of 5 men and if I fought back the cop said that I would have been shot. In fact, the cop disapproved of the fact that I asked for my belongings back because I had my glasses there in my purse. (they took my wallet). You’re talking about vigilanteism and I don’t buy it.”</p>

<p>Well, I can see where it’s coming from now. I’m sorry about this situation but have you ever given a second thought to what was the office supposed to say? That was the party line. It’s the same line a school administrator would use. It doesn’t for certain mean one thing or another, you could have been shot either way resisting or being passive. You just were lucky, it doesn’t mean if it happened again the outcome would be the same. It’s a coin toss.</p>

<p>“You’re talking about vigilanteism and I don’t buy it.”"</p>

<p>No one is saying anything of the sort. Self defense is not the same as seeking out a “wrongdoer” and providing some sort of justice. Maybe you just lacked the right words. </p>

<p>The advice about self defense from everyone here has been dealing with the situation in the momment. Beyond that yes, it becomes premediated vigilanteism… not a person here has suggested that. Deciding your going to defend yourself “next time” is completely different than I am going to seek “####” out and get him.</p>

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<p>STickershock, I started this thread to hear what cc’ers would say. I don’t agree with you or Opie but there’s no reason to get personal. You have your opinion and have expressed it. I DO agree with many others on this thread. Your idea of one boy defending himself against 8 hardly sounds “reasonable” to me, but as you (and my 'tween daughter would say) “Whatever”.</p>

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<p>Cheers-Wow is that a great way to build low self esteem and teach your kid to accept inferiority.</p>

<p>Bullies dont necessarily care that you “dont care”. In my experiences, bullies only do stuff in front of their friends. if their friends think theyre funny/tough/cool for doing what they do, they’ll keep on. They’re looking for some sort of vindication probably compensation for a lack of intelligence. If you fight back physically or verbally, the bully’s friends will mock/tease him about getting “owned” by you.</p>

<p>For example, once I didnt even fight this guy physically, but after he mocked me about certain things, I shot back verbally making fun of his grades, mental incompetence, weight, etc. He hit me square in the jaw as hard as he could, and I stood right up without showing any signs of pain and stared at him right in the eyes. His friends were laughing at my jokes about his weight and grades, and were impressed when I took his shot. For a long time he ignored me because he wasnt getting getting the vindication he needed. On the contrary, he was getting mocked.</p>

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<p>At age 13, I would have met with my son, brainstormed options, talked about the short and long-term physical and social pros and cons of each. When he was younger (age 9 or so), we also role-played some “get loud and get in their face” strategies. We made it clear that we would support him no matter what strategy he chose (including whalloping the kid with a rock-laddened backpack – that was my husband talking).<br>
We also put the principal on notice.
Along the way, my s developed his own strategies for dealing with such jerks (recruiting loyal friends and diffusing the situations with humor). Your son may have a pretty good idea of what he’s willing to commit to and what he’s not. At 13 he’ll likely make his own choices.
Without being there, we can’t understand the nuances well enough to pick the “best” strategy for him. We’re all pulling for him!!! Let him know that “middle school sucks” but it eventually gets better.</p>

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<p>Key point to my suggestion–the abuse is all verbal. If there was any hint of physical violence my advice would have been completely different.</p>

<p>My five year old son used this technique on a ‘bully’. Who knows why the kid was picking on son, (new kid at the school?)-- but as soon as son turned and faced the ‘bully’ with a rehearsed show of strength, the ‘bully’ melted into thin air (and went on to become a great friend and a leading scholar of that class, now studying astrophysics at UChicago, I believe). My son walked away with the sense that he could resolve conflict with words. By himself.</p>

<p>In these situations, a parent must accept that there may be something about the child’s behavior that is drawing negative attention. Can that behavior be adjusted with assertiveness in order to eliminate that negative attention? If so, what a useful lesson going forward.</p>

<p>But hey, it is just a suggestion. Plan B is always there. Call the cops. Call the parents.</p>

<p>I was held up at knife point once too. The guy tried to get me to unlock the door to go back into the brownstone I just left. I covered my face with both hands and told him to stab me to death right there on the sidewalk–I wasn’t going back inside. He ran away.</p>

<p>I called the cops. They told me to come down to the station to report the incident–although they suggested I really shouldn’t bother. Yeah, I am a fan of teaching kids how to handle aggressive situations with their own words.</p>

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<p>There is something to be said for putting a child in martial arts classes…that would be my suggestion…not to fight…no that is not what the classes teach…but they do teach how to carry yourself, how to be quick and agile, how to have a presense and inner confidence</p>

<p>both my D were small growing up, they did kung fu for years, not to beat anybody up, but to learn about their bodies, feel strong </p>

<p>There is something cool about being in a room with other kids, getting out those feelings in “weakness” in a positive healthy way</p>

<p>Whatever else happens in this situation, I would suggest this</p>

<p>No teasing, no bullying, no harrasment is allowed in class, and no matter the skill level, size, weight of the child, all succeed</p>

<p>Check out some programs in your area, many have free or cheap introductary classes…no need to sign up for long term stuff, which is the sales pitch…but it can turn a kid around with regards to how they feel about themselves</p>

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<p>I see that the OP doesn’t want to use violence in response, no one does…karate or kung fu or whichever class you check out, teaches that same principle…its not about hitting, its about control</p>

<p>no one deserves to be bullied, but often bullies pick what they see as easy targets…I speak from experience</p>

<p>My D was tiny in school, always the shortest kid…some kids teased her, and one girl was just a little snot</p>

<p>When my D practiced with me how to answer back, and in a loud confident voice, not meakly, it was very effective</p>

<p>She could have easily gotten “tinier” emotionally, but we worked on poise, standing tall, standing proud</p>

<p>When the mean girl would comment on my D size, at first my D would cry, then she finally shared and we came up with some auto responses</p>

<p>"Is that the best you got?</p>

<p>“Yes I am indeed short…so?” (the indeed threw the bully off)</p>

<p>“Have you nothing better to do then come and talk to me” (she would say this one loud and the bully would just stammer- what could she say)</p>

<p>Best thing my H did was have them talk to him really loudly, learning to speak from the core of their being…and to not freeze up…practice practice practice</p>

<p>this does not deal with the bully per se,nor the school, but these and the classes are some pro-active things you can do with your son…</p>

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<p>i was a bully. i stopped because i grew out of it and started to think about how bad the other guy must have felt. some people did tell teachers but that just ****ed me off, so instead of bullying them myself id spread rumours and make life miserable for them indirectly.</p>

<p>good luck.</p>

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<p>Whoa, we have the Left and the Right coming together in favor of the OP’s son beating the living sh-t out of this bully! Reading about the bully, I personally would like to slap him (and all of his seven little sociopathic minions) upside the head, too. </p>

<p>But I think that the focus on the OP’s kid defending himself takes a lot of the focus and resonsibility away from the school. Private school. Where OP is paying big bucks for her kid to be beaten up and intimidated and where the assistant princ. is whining to her that he just doesn’t know what to do about it, what does she suggest, boo hoo. </p>

<p>I would agree that after being physically intimidated, it might be a good idea for OPkid to get physically empowered through some krav maga-like modality through which he would learn that if he were ever in a life-or-death situation, he would not be helpless. But the main thing I would want him to learn is that he lives in a society of laws in which people who harm others are controlled, punished, and isolated, and where standing up for yourself most likely translates as going to the correct authorities who have the means in place to protect him from being victimized and to punish the victimizer. And frankly, I suspect that the school would be a lot likelier to stop whining and confront the problem if they knew that if they weren’t willing to deal with their mini-felon, the local police would do it for them with as much cost to their reputation as the OP could manage. Why should kids have less legal recourse than adults when it comes to assault and battery? (And I’m not talking about normal, rough and tumble, boys-will-be-boys stuff; I think we’re all in agreement that that’s not what OP’s kid is facing.) </p>

<p>OP – Please hold the school responsible for maintaining a safe environment for its students. Out with the ringleader; serious consequences for the other seven; assemblies in which the behavioral expectations are spelled out and it is made very clear what the school will and will not tolerate. </p>

<p>Also, if your kid wants to confront the kids who went after him while they sit there quietly, preferably in the presence of their humiliated parents, the school should set this up, facilitate and monitor. It should be absolutely clear that the situation is not that your kid is making a fuss, but that the school deeply disapproves of and will not tolerate an organized ring of bullies who damange its community. Period. (Worked nicely in a parallel situation stemming from a kid engaged in horrendous namecalling at our school.)</p>

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<p>CCSurfer, sounds like you have experience with the type of school that my kids go to. This is exactly what we’ve decided to do, and the upper school principal is facilitating it. The ringleader will be expelled, I think, and apologies from the students (not heartfelt, I’m sure), removal of bus privileges and perhaps suspension for the others. We’ve decided to go throught the proper channels and see what happens. Thanks all and I think I’m done!</p>

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<p>dke…since you have decided on your course of action make sure you document any and all contacts concerning the bullying and the administrations handling of it. Meeting time,information shared, who was there, actions agreed upon etc. Send a confirmation letter to each party after each meeting.They will know you are serious. You will quickly find out if they are serious. Good luck to you and your son.</p>

<p>To all parents of non-violent middle school boys being picked on: Get them in the weight room. The gift of self confidence and self esteem will follow them in what could be the most difficult years of their lives and is something that can shape who they are forever.</p>

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<p>dke…I responded to you about your original dilemma before more physical assault and abuse and harrassment continued with your son on this latest update. As I said then, and I do agree with CCSurfer now too, there should be policies in place at your school for harrassment, bullying and physical assault. While I agree about learning to assert oneself, when it comes to verbal abuse, and equipping kids with strategies, the person who is abusing and breaking the policy needs to be dealt with. I am not into physically fighting back. That doesn’t solve anything and in fact, the kid who physically fights back can also be in trouble at school. If asserting himself on his own verbally did not have an effect, I would do as you are doing (and I had suggested this originally)…going through the proper channels at school about harrassment, assault and bullying which goes against school policy (your school must have a policy, yes? If it dosen’t, time to work on them establishing one). The policy is for a REASON. And if someone broke it, the consequences need to be carried out. Harrassment and assault are even against the law. I also agree with others who say to document what has taken place and the actions taken and the agreements made in any meetings. </p>

<p>Yes, you can deal with helping your son deal with bullies in terms of assertiveness and also examine why he might be bullied. But that doesn’t absolve the kids who have physically assaulted him or harrassed him. They MUST be dealt with. I hope your school shows their mettle in upholding a harrassment policy. And if they don’t have a policy, I would work on a committee right away to establish one. The message should be loud and clear that bullying, harrassment, and physical assault will not be tolerated and consequences will be carried out. The school should uphold a “safe” environment stance. This would be for any school but it is particularly unbelieveable if a private school doesn’t have a policy and a stance of this sort. A private school doesn’t have to take all kids. Also parents are paying. Make sure you are heard on this. You can still help your son with strategies and so forth. But the perpetrators also need to be dealt with. They broke rules of the school and public laws as well.</p>

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<p>

Again, I feel as if we are reading two different threads. Who advocates beating the bullly to a pulp? The suggestions were for a reasonable attempt at self-defense that would clearly show the OP’s son is not an easy target any longer, but most importantly, get the victim out of danger in an immediate, dangerous situation. Period.</p>

<p>When any of our kids are bullied out of the protective (or not so protective) cocoon of the schoolyard, they will not have mom & dad around to organize conferences & seek to have the bully expelled. They’ll have to handle it on their own. I thought cheers made very good points about role-playing with our kids about how to use words & wit to disarm a verbal bullying situation. When violence is involved, however, the victim could be killed or maimed. We have to give our kids the tools to protect against that possibility. </p>

<p>Just a few weeks ago, a 10 year old boy in one of our town elementary schools had a large part of his ear chomped off by a bully. Hospitalization & plastic surgery were required. Serious stuff. Perhaps that could have been avoided had the victim been shown a few self-defense moves.</p>

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<p>My son told me he had been teased about being short. I told him a good come back would be to theatrically open his eyes wide in suprise and say, “No! How can that be?? It must have just happened! Thank you so much for mentioning it!” He thought it was pretty lame. </p>

<p>As a child and young adult I was fairly self consious about my height but now make jokes about it instead. A couple of years ago I was the mc at a banquet and the first thing I said when I got behind the podium was, “Welcome and yes, I am standing up!”</p>

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<p>Kathie…I advised a boy last year applying to an Ivy League school ED and he is short and his essay played on the being short but showed lots of things about him. The essay was called “small packages”. He got in, by the way.</p>

<p>Verbal teasing and bullying are one thing. Physical assault is another. Yes, people need to learn self defense. But the perpetrators still need to be dealt with. In schools, there needs to be policies and follow through. In society, there are laws. So, assertiveness is important, no doubt about it. If in a dangerous situation, self defense is important. But dealing with perpetrators is also important. Schools have policies (I hope) and society has laws.</p>

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<p>Do we know that the OP’s son actually can whup the bully? What if he can’t and gets his head handed to him and actually gets injured?</p>

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<p>I suggested martial arts, NOT to beat anyone up, not at all, but to help build confidence in the young man and that confidence can carry over to having a stature and presense that doesn’t seem like such a “target” bullies pick on who they THINK will take it and cower a bit…and if a young person stands tall, knows in themselves what the bully is saying is lame, then th bully will get bored</p>

<p>bullies will push and push to see what they can get away with…</p>

<p>the self confidence built by doing sports, especially a martial art is so helpful when navigating the world…as I said, I am in no way suggesting fighting, BUT if someone hits you, you need to have some moves to protect yourself, enough to get away, that is not beating someone up, that is doing what you can to not get hurt worse…walking away is best, but if confronted, a person should have some tools to protect themselves- whether its words, dodging, or stepping away without worrying about what people will say</p>