<p>oldfort & whatever4 - I do hope she will open up with me and tell me what’s ‘really’ going on. </p>
<p>I like the statement someone wrote: parenting is not for sissies!!! </p>
<p>Sometimes I feel like I need a helmet and padding. ;)</p>
<p>Conflicted, sorry if I misinterpreted your reference in the OP, but you also said in post 49 that what upset you was 98% the spending and 2% the tattoo. Well, I agree that you have reacted appropriately to the the 98%. I just don´t think that 2%, as distasteful as it is to you, should be a factor in your decision.</p>
<p>Could you explain this to me, ww11? “What I don´t think was right in the original deal was the idea that Mom could determine the way D spends her discretionary money, and that her mother should have a right to determine her personal decisions.” This statement seems to mean you feel it is unfair for the parent giving money to decide how student spends discretionary money and that parent should not have a right to determine D’s decisions. Is that what you mean? Am I clear?</p>
<p>If I am understanding you correctly, let’s flip the coin. How is it fair that D can determine how parent spends discretionary money(so far spent on D’s college)? How is it D has a right to determine parent’s personal decisions? To say that parent must continue to give $ just as if student had complied with the agreement is to say that student can control how parent spends but parent cannot control how student spends. So Wildwood, you feel that is fair? Before a bank loans me money they want to know my other income and expenses. If they don’t like the results they don’t loan the money. Do you think that is unfair?</p>
<p>Maybe op could consider one tough semester for student, appearing to be holding the line, then before the next semester discuss creating a new agreement on future funding? Naturally parent will have some distrust in D based on previous actions, and D will be skeptical if parent would really hold the line next time, but it might be a good start. As a parent I’d be SO curious to know why the tatt had to be now. Why could it not have waited until the funding deal was over?</p>
<p>Okay younghoss, A. I did say repeatedly that OP is right in reducing her contribution because D can obviously afford to pay more. But B. Yes, I stand by my statement that a parent shouldn’t decide how their adult child spends discretionary money. In other words, you can limit how much discretionary money your child has available, by negotiating an agreement on how much you contribute and what they have to do to help out, but if you don´t let your kid make their own choices in college, how will they ever grow up? I really don´t understand those who think its okay to manipulate a kid’s choices with money–I just think no good will come of it. </p>
<p>In my own case, I’ve given my daughter a fixed amount of spending money for the semester, that will pay for extra food (she´s on a limited meal plan), clothes, incidentals and all her basic needs, and believe me, she is on a very tight budget. She is still looking for a job in NYC to supplement her spending money. In any case, she will make the choices as to whether she spends on healthy food and a rented movie, or a night out clubbing and ramen noodles. If she buys weed or granola, that´s up to her because now is the time for her to be taking control. I would draw the line on her doing poorly academically, as I would not waste another dime on a lousy student. But if she wants to spend two-thirds of her semester allowance on a tattoo, I may give my opinion that it´s a really stupid thing to do, but I´ll let her figure out how she´s going to get by for the rest of the semester.</p>
<p>If you are paying for your kids to get educated, then it´s clearly important to you, and worth the sacrifice. If someone wants to withdraw their support, not because a kid is not taking advantage of the educational opportunities, but because of the personal choices they make, then that´s up to them. It´s just my opinion that it´s wrong.</p>
<p>When you are an adult and you are in a relationship with someone you love – a bf/gf, spouse, child, parent, sibling, etc – you need to act as if your own personal needs/wants are not the only thing that matters if you want that relationship to be a good one. Someone who cheats on a spouse can try to justify it by saying “It’s my body”, or “no one will ever find out” or “I got caught up in the moment and just really wanted to have sex with someone else.” That doesn’t make the behaviour – or the disrespect and lack of regard for the loved one – OK.</p>
<p>Conflictedmom was right in reminding her daughter that just because D wants something doesn’t mean it’s OK to do or get it. Delayed gratification, awareness of others’ sacrifices and needs, and fiscal responsibility are good things for all young people (and older people, too) to understand and embrace, if only to help them understand what makes relationships work. It can’t be all me all the time.</p>
<p>younghoss – you are globalizing the argument. It’s either – mom has 100% veto power over anything and everything to do with daughter’s life because she pulls the purse strings vs. mom lets daughter call every single shot once the $ is in her hands. </p>
<p>There is a finer, middle ground. A parent can evaluate (or re-evaluate) the appropriateness of the contingencies he/she puts on the $ outlay for education & attendant expenses while gaining said education. </p>
<p>Sure, in theory you could demand (if it suited you) that your child never bleach her hair, never wear midriff shirts, never date outside her ethnicity, etc. And you might be able to extract compliance because the child wants to continue her education and not spend the majority of her free time working to pay for expenses. But, is it appropriate? Is it repectful of the child’s personal autonomy? </p>
<p>Further, do you really want to establish the precedent that the person w/the cash has final veto on anything/everything? What if your daughter grows up to be a stay-at-home mom, younghoss? If her husband brings home all the $, should he be able to dictate the color of her hair (he pays for the salon, after all) or what style clothing she wears? There are certain lines that the person paying the funds doesn’t need to cross and it’s worth examining where those lines fall.</p>
<p>Whatever4, I wholeheartedly agree. The point is NOT about the tattoo, but about the lack of appropriateness (is that a word? :)), financial foolishness AND selfishness of “treating” yourself to a $1,000 one while others are making financial sacrifices for you to attain a college education.</p>
<p>Conflicted: It’s a great start that your daughter emailed you and stated that she messed up. That was a huge move for a headstrong kid. Continued good luck.</p>
<p>Yay, CM! That is wonderful. Just those words make us feel so much better.</p>
<p>We have an amount of money we have agreed to give our kids to fund their college educations. Anything BEYOND that is theirs to earn…and spend. Because we don’t pay for any discretionary spending (not even textbooks), we also don’t tell our kids how to spend that money they earn. While getting a tattoo wouldn’t thrill me, if it was money my kid earned while working, I would just deal with it. The reality is the kiddo is over 18 and is working. The money she earns is hers.</p>
<p>NOW…if I were paying for all discretionary spending, I would very closely be scrutinizing the bills…because <em>I</em> WOULD be paying them.</p>
<p>I guess what I’m saying is…the OP really doesn’t like the tattoo idea…and I understand that. BUT if the daughter really earned the money and paid for it, I don’t really think I understand the issue…unless it’s one of parental control.</p>
<p>But Jolynne, this isn’t a case of - I have the money you must do as I say.
This is a case of parent offering a choice to student that if she wants parent to donate she promises not to get add’l tatts. Not all parents can/will donate. Further, student agreed to the terms. Student had other choices besides accepting parents’ terms. She might have negotiated small tatts, (and yes I get the joke- she’d be a girl with small tatts) or a price guideline on tatts, or she might have turned down the offer completely.
Even after she accepted the deal, before she got that tatt, she might have then discussed it with mom. Perhaps she could have convinced mom why the $1000 tatt was necessary right then; and why it could not wait until after her graduation. Perhaps parent would have then ok’d the tatt. Student had many honorable options other than accepting the terms of the money then secretly reneging on it.
Yes we tease about the golden rule: The one with the gold makes the rules. But that is just teasing. If I get a bank loan there are terms I must follow or risk consequences. This student chose free money in exchange for terms that she and the parent were expected to follow.</p>
<p>I think you should withdraw support as you stated you would. You had a mandated agreement with your D: we are paying for your education, no more tattoos is a rule of that agreement. She deliberately did it anyway. I think it is clear what you have to do. </p>
<p>One of my favorite sayings: Experience is a hard teacher: first you get the test, then you get the lesson.</p>
<p>Keep treating her as your D, still welcome in your home, still part of the family, you are just no longer funding. She will have to figure it out. Your parents paying for your college education is a huge priviledge and it does come with strings. I would find it difficult to do, but I think in the long run your D will be better off for this.</p>
<p>I should add that my parents stopped paying for college for me in the middle of my junior year because I moved in with my boyfriend. That was never explicitly stated that I couldn’t do that, but I knew my mother would not like it. She didn’t speak to me for 4-5 months and never gave me any money for the rest of my education. I was bitter about it for a long time, but it made me a much stronger person and I quickly stepped into the world of adults who have to pay for themselves.</p>
<p>I just don’t see this ‘lesson’ making a grown woman stronger. None of us has a crystal ball, but I believe this kind of lesson has already been lost. --much more appropriate lesson for a teen. I can only see this driving a wedge between mother and daughter, resulting is lost time, precious time. Seems this young woman will be in the world of adults who pay for themselves soon enough. Full disclosure: I lived in a family where a parent (father in this case) stood his ground on a very similar issue and the rift was never healed. My father died before he and brother could ‘make up’. Stubborn pride got in the way and it has continued to impact others down the road. </p>
<p>In my mind, a far better parenting example would be set through the granting of forgiveness for the daughter’s foolish expenditure, not by ‘cutting her off’. Don’t misunderstand my point. I’m all for consequences. Establish some other consequence, but don’t withdraw your financial support from your daughter completely. Ramifications associated with cutting off one’s child emotionally (inevitable here, IMO) are just too substantial. I wish the OP nothing but the best!</p>
<p>Masslou-- That IS what the mother did. You probably got bored of reading before it got to that point, though.</p>
<p>Thumper, in post 170, has better said what I was trying to in post 126. But it seems our philosophies really cannot help OP with her ultimatum.</p>
<p>I will say, I have, on many occasions, told a child of mine that I had rethought my prior position and am now willing to consider, more calmly, their point of view.</p>
<p>I think OP has adopted this philosophy and I wish her and her D all the best.</p>
<p>I have a personal story similar too. My F cut my college funding abruptly without any warning because after a yr or so, he felt I wasn’t putting in my best efforts. Unlike the op here, there was no standard set, no guideline in advance of expectations. He just said quit college and get a job, or pay your own college, or get out. I chose to get a job, about a yr later I moved out and have been a self supporting adult since.
Then and now, I think it was extremely unfair of him to cut off funding as he did, even though then and now, I agree I wasn’t trying my best. I feel even today, there either should have been some guideline set in advance or a warning given before a semester to “bring up grades/efforts or else…” But that didn’t happen.
Initially, and briefly, I was angry and thought it was unfair. To this day, I still think it was unfair, but I put it under the heading of nobody’s perfect. I am long since over it, and while I don’t have a job I might have gotten with the degree, I still have a happy life and am considered a productive member of society. My Dad however, I know deeply regrets to this day what he sees as his choice to force me out of college with no warning. I believe I have learned from that experience and while I’m not perfect either, I shall try to be better.
I really feel had I agreed to specific, reasonable guidelines in advance then whatever happened- good or bad would have been fair. I think that is why I feel so strongly here that D needs to learn many lessons, starting with that parent is a person of integrity and her word can be counted on. If she says she’ll do something she will. If she says she won’t do something she won’t. Second lesson might be that parent expects young adult D to honor her word too. After that comes financial lessons/consequences that have/are already being discussed here. And of course both parties are likely now to calmly set expectations and terms in the future.</p>
<p>I think we should all make sure that when we respond to one of these threads that it doesn’t deteriorate into each one of us trying to prove our point of view is correct. </p>
<p>One of the things I think is great is that mom drew a line, not about her daughter’s behavior, but how she (mom) wanted to be treated, and her daughter responding by saying she had messed up. </p>
<p>I also deeply admire any parent who posts a thread and admits their own fragility as a parent and asks for our collective wisdom. As I said earlier, this parenting stuff isn’t easy. I have often told parents with whom I work, that parenting is a marathon, not a sprint, so prepare accordingly.</p>
<p>That’s a very thoughtful post, worknprogress. Just as our children are works in progress, so are we as parents.</p>
<p>I am more of a child than my children in many ways, but we are growing together.</p>
<p>And my name refers to how I feel about myself as a mom, a professional, and a daughter.</p>
<p>I actually think I have the wife thing down pretty well :)</p>