<p>And, also agree w/worknprogress that one of the biggest challenges being a single parent is not to have another there to give you some feedback/pushback on your reactions to things. That’s difficult. As a parent, you are always looking to do what is best for your kid. Sometimes it’s helpful to hear about other paths to get to that result or suggestions about re-evaluating things (not that they are always followed, but it helps to get perspective). Good luck, conflictedmom.</p>
<p>I agree with you in theory, but there has to be some oversight, no? If the young adult is behaving responsibly, the parent has no need to place restrictions on them. I have no restrictions on my d, and have no reason to think she’ll do anything that would make me feel the need to restrict her spending. But if she starts spending $1000 on anything, tattoo, purse, shoes, drugs, etc, surely I, as the provider of the $$, have the right to make sure the money is going towards the intended goal, which is a college education, not luxury items.</p>
<p>07dad’s opinion may be true in other cases(post 139 middle paragraph). His opinion would indicate that because a parent wants a college educated offspring, they must financially support any kind of behavior as long as the student gets passing grades, or as 07Dad puts it the student has no obligation to keep the parent happy “at anything other than the mutual goal level.” He indicates that college degree is the goal(and only goal) at any cost to those participating. That is an interesting concept, and I’ll not argue for or against his idea of an ideal arrangement. I would say though that I don’t see the degree as the only goal; I also see teaching a student life lessons about committment, trust, integrity and honor; in general- ethics should also be a parent’s goal. However, his theoretical win-win goal is not what was the deal here, with this Op. His idea may or may not be better, but it isn’t the real life situation presented to us. The question as I see it isn’t what could have been done differently 3 yrs ago, but rather what is best now?
This parent offered continued funding to legally adult student on the condition that the student not get additional tattoos, and the student accepted that condition. In fact, we are told that for approx 3 yrs the parent and student both met their obligation.</p>
<pre><code>I just can’t agree with those who feel the money the student has earned is her money to spend any way she wishes; yet feel the money the parent earns ISN’T her money to spend any way she wishes. If the parent had not discussed the conditional gift in advance, and if the student had not agreed to it, I’d feel differently. If suddenly the additional tatt was revealed and then the parent said “No more money!, you’re too wasteful”. Likely the student would respond “But how was I to know?” I would likely agree the parent had no right to suddenly reverse a promised gift. But that isn’t the case here. Clearly conditional and clearly agreed upon. I don’t see this as situational ethics- that the parent has a cetain degree of a right to hold firm depending on the degree of parent’s hardship to contribute.
</code></pre>
<p>If there are any adults here willing to give me the gift of financial support for the next 3 yrs, on the condition that I keep out of jail and get no tattoos; and that if I disregard the terms then they will not continue to support me- well please let me know! I’d jump on that in a minute. Of course no one is obligated to make me such an offer. It would be a wonderful gift, though. Any takers?</p>
<p>poster 126 tells us “It seems mom is out no more than she expected to spend.” in response to Oldforst post about what if she suddenly found out her husband had been cheating on her. True, but how is the relevant? I agree the mom wasn’t out any more, just as oldfort couldn’t change what behavior she had done before the theoretical revelation of hub cheating. Just as Oldfort was saying, what I did before the revelation wasn’t germain. What is germain is what to do now, now that it has been discovered that the other party did break a trust, cheat, and renege on our agreement. The OP isn’t asking for money back on money already spent; she is saying that now the future gifts may no longer continue</p>
<p>I agree younghoss, and further, the statement “It seems mom is out no more than she expected to spend.” ought to be “It seems mom doesn’t need to scrimp & save as much as she expected.” Instead of saying, “Mom, I know how hard it has been for you to do this for me, and you know what, I can get by on less, so you can give me less, and that will make it easier on you,” the daughter decided to spend $1000 on a completely unnecessary item. Sorry, but that is just selfish.</p>
<p>Example. The Student brings significant merit money to the endeavor. Parent commits X amount for 4 years to the student for supplementing the merit money to assist the student in getting an undergraduate degree. This X amount provides very little, if any, discretionary funds for the student. Student knew what the deal was going to be in college since–forever and has worked in HS and the summers. </p>
<p>The student is managing to pay all his necessities, maintain his scholarships and progress towards the degree in 4 years. Student works in the summers, found off campus housing for junior year at less than the dorm costs and avoids the on-campus parking charge (apt. that doesnt require a parental co-signer), cooks at the apartment a lot so that his food costs less than the school meal plans, has a system of new/used and buy/resell of books to minimize those costs and uses his auto to provide other students with break transportation to out of state home town where parents live so he has no transportation costs at breaks.</p>
<p>Assumption #1:</p>
<p>Student makes a $1000 charitable donation. Student makes a $1000 political donation (hypo 1-to candidate you approve of, hypo 2 - to candidate you despise). Student spends $1000 to go skiing at Winter Break. Student loans his other parent (your X) $1000. Student spends money for recreational pot personal use totaling $1000 over 3 years of college/summer.</p>
<p>Assumption #2:</p>
<p>You find out about assumptions #1 for some one other than your student.</p>
<p>Reaction? To me, if the student was my S, Id remind him that even misdemeanors can mess you up in life, go over gateway drug issues and reaffirm that if he ever feels that anything that he chooses to do is getting out of control to use me as a resource for getting help. </p>
<p>Is it a guy thing? Whats with the tat or purse?</p>
<p>Younghoss–by the time a student is in college most of the life lessons had better already be in place. College is about the parent standing down and the young adult getting on with their life.</p>
<p>07DAD, that’s a perfect reaction for your personal scenario, but that is not the scenario of the OP, so I don’t think it applies. My scenario is that we agreed upon a monthly allowance for d. After a while, she found she didn’t need that much, and told us to just give her half of the original amount. </p>
<p>Reaction? The happy dance.</p>
<p>And while the life lessons should be in place before the kid goes to college, if you discover later that your kid missed one of those life lessons, then you need to fix that while they are in college so they don’t go out into the real world without it.</p>
<p>“I also see teaching a student life lessons about committment, trust, integrity and honor; in general- ethics should also be a parent’s goal.”</p>
<p>I think the OP could teach a good life lesson to her D by admitting to her that she made a mistake by tying a college education to not getting a tattoo in the first place. As 07dad points out, the college education is a mutually beneficial thing, and from the sound of it, the OP has no intention of withdrawing her help with tuition to finish the degree. She could also point out to her daughter that it was very selfish of her to use extra money in a whimsical manner when she could have helped toward other expenses. And she can reset the amount of her support, given her daughter´s apparent ability to contribute more. </p>
<p>But in the interest of helping their future relationship, the OP should acknowledge that her daughter has the right to control what she does with her body, and her disappointment lies in the frivolous nature of the spending.</p>
<p>I agree, 07, (post 146) that such life lessons should have been in place well before college yrs. I also agree however with blankmind(post 147) that some of those lessons weren’t in place as proven by the student’s choice to secretly break their agreement. I agree further that it is not too late to try to fix that lesson.
And if I believe as 07 says that “College is about the parent standing down and the young adult getting on with their life”, wouldn’t that mean college is the time a parent backs away; and “the ‘young adult’ getting on with [his] life” means paying his own bills? For the parent to continue paying the bills for an adult is in no way a parent standing down, nor is a young adult getting on with his life if Mommy and Daddy are still paying the bills. I can fully agree an adult has the right to control their body, but I cannot agree
the young adult has the right to control parents gift. The student did exercise her right to control her body; no one denied her that choice. Students’ college education is not tied to a tattoo. Only the gift of parental cash was tied to students behavior while accepting the gift. Student can go anywhere she wants, anywhere she can pay for. The student has always had the option of attending college without the ties of the gift. Paraphrasing Oldfort- you want to work in a factory? You have to wear steel-toed boots. You don’t want to do that? Seek employment elsewhere. Doesn’t mean you can’t work.
I’ll remind some here too, that I have suggested the parent secretly give a gift of cash in a yr or 2 to student. My thoughts are that way, the parents honors her word now, student has a difficult time due to her decision, but students’ debt could be reduced afterward as a gift. Parent honors her word, child(and maybe parent) learns a couple lessons, parent can later give to help student, hopefully ruffled feathers on both sides then smoothed. Those that have read this thread from its inception know I have not commented on whether I thought the original conditional gift was appropriate at the time the deal was made; I am only addressing what I feel the Op should do now.</p>
<p>Wildwood11 wrote: “the OP should acknowledge that her daughter has the right to control what she does with her body, and her disappointment lies in the frivolous nature of the spending.”</p>
<p>I did just this. And this is where I stand. </p>
<p>For those who have mentioned a sounding board of sorts, I have a counselor I see, and have seen, for the last 20 years. It’s not a regularly scheduled appointment (although at times it has been), but someone who knows me, my D, and my/our background. I have already had one session with counselor, and I assure you that for my circumstance, and for my little family dynamic, I am doing (and have done) the right thing(s). In fact, D sent a simple e-mail this morning “I effed up”…I won’t lie, it brought tears to my eyes. I wrote her back, “I’m not mad, just disappointed.” That is true. Between you (all) and me, I assure you I’m not going to let anything happen to my D. However as she says, she “effed up” and she is going to have to figure out how to make the best out of a very costly decision. I’m still not mad.</p>
<p>Wildwood, you should read the entire thread before posting. OP is not tying her D’s college education to “not getting a tattoo”, OP is giving her D a gift of college education, and the money is specifically allocated to certain things. If the funds have been misused, OP has her full right to withdraw her support in that area. The tuition money has been used appropriately, and the OP is going to continue paying that, as well as some other living expenses. If my kid buys a fancy bag for $1000, I will cancel her monthly allowance, but I will continue paying her tuition and room and board, and she will have to eat in the cafeteria all the time.</p>
<p>younghoss–I acknowledge that a parent providing any money is not a total standback nor is attending college with any parental assistance truly the young adult being on their own.</p>
<p>However, just like I pay taxes that fund public education and for that I get a more educated workforce, I choose to pay to get my S a higher education because I want that level of an education for him. </p>
<p>I also choose to assume the role of another merit scholarship source. I place the same restrictions on my “merit scholar” that the other sources place on theirs. The other sources don’t have a “do as I say” clause.</p>
<p>Since this money has a quid pro quo, it isn’t a “gift.” And, at least in my experience, a true gift (say an X-mas bonus from their employer or a check from grandmother) allows the recipient free choice on what to do with it once received.</p>
<p>interetingly, however, the IRS does have a “do as I say” clause. For example, you would have to pay taxes on money withdrawn from a 529 if you could not prove the expenses were directly related to cost of room and board or education. Hmmmmmm.</p>
<p>The main thing is that D and mom are in a relationship which the D understands. I honestly don’t believe becoming a different mother as she finishes up college will supply even the slightest amount of comfort to D. What she wants to know, now, is that her mother is who she has always been to her. Obviously, this is the case.</p>
<p>I’m really late to the party, but I just wanted to say to the OP - I think you did the right thing here. Sometimes our kids have to learn tough lessons, and those same kids are often totally oblivious to the sacrifices their parents make to that their dreams (and our dreams for them) come true. The selfishness that young adults can exhibit will hopefully wane as they grow up and become more responsible for their own destinies. I’m glad that your daughter saw the light. Hang in there - parenting is not for sissies!!!</p>
<p>Bunsenburner, I had read the entire thread before I posted. In post 23 the OP states that her daughter pays for her extra spending with her part time job and she contributes half the rent. As you say, the money she gives is allocated to specific things and it seems her daughter used her paycheck money for this “extra”. In the original post, Conflicted talks about the condition she set three years ago in writing about not supporting anything if her daughter got a tattoo:</p>
<p>"I was crystal clear with her that I would stop the financial support if she opted for more tattoos while in school (what she does when she’s self-sufficient is her business, not mine), and I want to follow through on that ‘promise’. "</p>
<p>Given, that she does not want to withdraw that funding completely now, that condition was obviously a mistake. OP has very reasonably said that it is the extravagance of this act that has upset her, and she has every right to expect her daughter to contribute more to her expenses if she is making that much money. What I don´t think was right in the original deal was the idea that Mom could determine the way D spends her discretionary money, and that her mother should have a right to determine her personal decisions. Conflicted also insinuated in the OP that if it had been another $75 dollar tattoo, she would be feeling differently. And she just confirmed in post 150 that her position now is that “her daughter has the right to control what she does with her body, and her disappointment lies in the frivolous nature of the spending”.</p>
<p>Conflicted, I´m glad your daughter realizes her irresponsibity and wish you both the best.</p>
<p>CM - Glad your daughter wrote back to you and in her own way apologized to you. I am sure it wasn’t easy for her to do. You sound like you are on your way to forgive her already. You must have done a pretty job in raising her for her to come to her senses so fast. I always hate it when there is conflict between myself and my kids.</p>
<p>You’ve done fine, conflictedmom. Glad to hear the silent treatment towards you has ended and your D has acknowledged she messed up. I hope this provides an opportunity for the two of you to delve into what is/was going on in her life/mind. You were right to call your daughter on her actions, and hopefully this will be a good learning experience for both of you.</p>
<p>Actually Wildwood11 I have just funded a move for her to a new apartment (less than 2 weeks ago), have paid several hundreds of dollars for expenses for school (separate from tuition) as well as 1/2 of her monthly rent. </p>
<p>In essence I am pulling subsidizing her rent and expenses for school (separate from tuition). You missed the expenses for school (separate from tuition).</p>
<p>Also, I never said (nor insinuated actually) “that if it had been another $75 dollar tattoo, she would be feeling differently” - what I said was that THAT didn’t happen, so I don’t know HOW I would react. I only know what DID happen, and how I HAVE reacted.</p>